NFL Trade Deadline Discourse

[mgteich]

A free safety is not a luxury. Hawkins or Dugger is beat like a drum regularly.

Isn't Woodson our free safety?

I do STRONGLY agree that we need a safety. After Woodson, we aren't very good. BTW, I also do not support moving Dugger at this int. He is an OK BACKUP strong safety.

 

[DoubleDeluxe]

Passing league. We aren’t fixing the run blocking this year. A new running back isn’t fixing that. We won’t get the OL personnel to fix it. You want to make the run game effective? Double up on making passing a strength to stretch the defense and open up more runs. Diggs and Brown become a nightmare for everyone else and defenses will never be able to sell out on the run. Make play action more of a threat, then Henderson and Stevenson won’t be running into brick walls.

An extra running back isn’t changing much, the problem isn’t their skill. It’s the line run blocking. Give the defense less of an incentive to be heavy upfront.

Agreed it’s the line, not the backs.
I think we can improve our run blocking with what we have in-house.
We already are good passing offense, 6th in the league. That should be more than good enough to open up play action if the line can block better.
Again, not opposed to improving the roster or adding a WR, but that is way down the list of needs imho.

 

[Zuma]

Looks like Ol' Rickey did a bad...

 

[203Pat]

What exactly would Meyers fit be on this current offense?

To me he feels like the intersection between Diggs and Boutte. Not sure where he plays.

I am all for adding talent to the team to accelerate Drake's progression and bolster playoff chances but Meyers is a strictly a slot guy and we already have Douglas, Diggs, and even Mack Hollins who play there. While the price tag would be higher in terms of contract and compensation, Chris Olave is rumored to be available and he can play outside and inside similar to how Diggs has been used which would give McDaniels another high end receiver to add to the mix.

Some guys I would rather go after in other areas where the price might be right.

A bunch of former Vrabel Titans:

Chig Okonkwo: TE who played for Vrabel in Tennessee and is more of a pass catcher but from what I have seen as at least improved to a capable blocker. Young and on the last year of his rookie deal so they could evaluate for half the season and see if they need Hooper next year.

Roger McCreary CB: Another rental on an expiring rookie deal but shouldn't have to give up a ton and can hopefully take some reps in the slot to preserve Marcus Jones.

Arden Key edge rusher: A little older but would be a solid pass rusher in the rotation. Most expensive contract out of the group by far expires at the end of the year as well.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Passing league. We aren’t fixing the run blocking this year. A new running back isn’t fixing that. We won’t get the OL personnel to fix it. You want to make the run game effective? Double up on making passing a strength to stretch the defense and open up more runs. Diggs and Brown become a nightmare for everyone else and defenses will never be able to sell out on the run. Make play action more of a threat, then Henderson and Stevenson won’t be running into brick walls.

An extra running back isn’t changing much, the problem isn’t their skill. It’s the line run blocking. Give the defense less of an incentive to be heavy upfront.

This is true. Brown could have that exponential effect on the offense. No more 8 man boxes means the rbs finally have room and even if defenses CAN cover brown/diggs and the rest of our receivers who are ideal #3’s, Drakes scrambling will be a major problem. I trust in vrabel to make the call if brown is ultimately good for the team and it will work with diggs.

But like i said elsewhere I don’t think Philly is trading him, they are a smart team and they know jalen aint taking them anywhere without aj. The very same domino effect we are getting would destroy their offense

 

[Zuma]

Not a trade but…

 

[mgteich]

Dugger is pretty much unusable right now. Hawkins is ok, but nothing special. You're right safety is a glaring hole.

Yes, we could certainly use an upgrade at safety, EDGE player, a running back and a corner.
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Please list the much better #3 and #4 safeties other teams have.
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BE SERIOUS! We might very well have lost on Sunday if Dugger had been out. The first play was a serious error by an inexperienced defensive play-caller, which Dugger might have done better at in the past. Of course, instead of Dugger, we could have counted on Pettus and Schooler to fill in, or perhaps one of our Practice Squad players. ROFL!
===========
We lost two EDGE players and had one coming back from injury/illness. Chaisson had to play more than he should have AND we had a very good backup in Tavai. Tavai was an ILB filling in as next man up and doing an OK job.
==========
I STRONGLY disagree with calling players like Dugger (and Tavai) unusable. The "proper" word is upgradable. I would even disagree calling Tavai upgradable. He and Ponder are the inexpensive deep (2 injury) backups. And they both play a lot on Special Teams.
=========

 

[mgteich]

Against really bad teams

The record won't matter if we are one and done in the playoffs because we can't run.

How far we have come since January. We are now looking at where we need to improve to win a playoff game, rather than discussing what we need to win more than half of our games.

 

[Wozzy]

Why would Wilson need to redo his contract? It's chump change. It would be like 3.7M this year, 6.4M next year and 7M in 2027.

I said AJ Brown should rework his contract if traded. Don’t know where you got Wilson.

Not advocating for hm ether way. Just pointing out that the Cap hit is nothing in the scheme of things.

His cap hit is large, they could lower it.

 

[Joey007]

I am all for adding talent to the team to accelerate Drake's progression and bolster playoff chances but Meyers is a strictly a slot guy and we already have Douglas, Diggs, and even Mack Hollins who play there. While the price tag would be higher in terms of contract and compensation, Chris Olave is rumored to be available and he can play outside and inside similar to how Diggs has been used which would give McDaniels another high end receiver to add to the mix.

Some guys I would rather go after in other areas where the price might be right.

A bunch of former Vrabel Titans:

Chig Okonkwo: TE who played for Vrabel in Tennessee and is more of a pass catcher but from what I have seen as at least improved to a capable blocker. Young and on the last year of his rookie deal so they could evaluate for half the season and see if they need Hooper next year.

Roger McCreary CB: Another rental on an expiring rookie deal but shouldn't have to give up a ton and can hopefully take some reps in the slot to preserve Marcus Jones.

Arden Key edge rusher: A little older but would be a solid pass rusher in the rotation. Most expensive contract out of the group by far expires at the end of the year as well.

Agreed on receiver. We have plenty of complementary pieces/slot guys in this group. Either swing huge for a guy like Olave, or stay put with the group we have.

 

[JoeSixPat]

I am all for adding talent to the team to accelerate Drake's progression and bolster playoff chances but Meyers is a strictly a slot guy and we already have Douglas, Diggs, and even Mack Hollins who play there. While the price tag would be higher in terms of contract and compensation, Chris Olave is rumored to be available and he can play outside and inside similar to how Diggs has been used which would give McDaniels another high end receiver to add to the mix.

Some guys I would rather go after in other areas where the price might be right.

A bunch of former Vrabel Titans:

Chig Okonkwo: TE who played for Vrabel in Tennessee and is more of a pass catcher but from what I have seen as at least improved to a capable blocker. Young and on the last year of his rookie deal so they could evaluate for half the season and see if they need Hooper next year.

Roger McCreary CB: Another rental on an expiring rookie deal but shouldn't have to give up a ton and can hopefully take some reps in the slot to preserve Marcus Jones.

Arden Key edge rusher: A little older but would be a solid pass rusher in the rotation. Most expensive contract out of the group by far expires at the end of the year as well.

I don't think he played under Vrabel but perhaps we get to see Tony Pollard try out for the Patriots this weekend - hopefully not so hard a tryout that they win!

He's not what he was with Dallas but he's still good for a consistent 4 yards a carry. He's supposedly on the trading block. Not sure he's worth the salary but he would probably get the job done for us.

Tony Pollard Career Stats - NFL - ESPN

Complete career NFL stats for Tennessee Titans Running Back Tony Pollard on ESPN. Includes scoring, rushing, defensive and receiving stats.

www.espn.com

 

[imahobgoblin]

It's not true we have an easy schedule and won games against lesser talent? Really?

You are such an insufferable troll. If you really think the difference from last year to this year is the easy schedule, you are a complete and utter idiot. Get your head out of your ass and get some positive vibes. Things have changed in New England. We are on a different path. Even Felger sees it, but nope not you. You want to promote cancer and misery.

 

[203Pat]

I don't think he played under Vrabel but perhaps we get to see Tony Pollard try out for the Patriots this weekend - hopefully not so hard a tryout that they win!

He's not what he was with Dallas but he's still good for a consistent 4 yards a carry. He's supposedly on the trading block. Not sure he's worth the salary but he would probably get the job done for us.

Tony Pollard Career Stats - NFL - ESPN

Complete career NFL stats for Tennessee Titans Running Back Tony Pollard on ESPN. Includes scoring, rushing, defensive and receiving stats.

www.espn.com

I don't know if they would want to take on that salary for him at this point in his career. Can probably find the same production much cheaper but I never want to invest much in RB.

 

[Give Kraft A Hand]

You are such an insufferable troll. If you really think the difference from last year to this year is the easy schedule, you are a complete and utter idiot. Get your head out of your ass and get some positive vibes. Things have changed in New England. We are on a different path. Even Felger sees it, but nope not you. You want to promote cancer and misery.

The Pats have a real head coach now. That’s part of the reason why they’re winning.

 

[Zuma]

You are such an insufferable troll. If you really think the difference from last year to this year is the easy schedule, you are a complete and utter idiot. Get your head out of your ass and get some positive vibes. Things have changed in New England. We are on a different path. Even Felger sees it, but nope not you. You want to promote cancer and misery.

Me? I have never been accused of either in my 21 years here but their is always a first time. New level achieved

 

[mgteich]

I EXPECT that we will trade for a RB. I know that most teams don't succeed in acquiring anyone in trade at this point. If it is hope, we could us upgrades elsewhere, especially at S and CB.
----------------------
To be clear, for THIS year, we could use a
better 4th safety than Schooler or Pettus ((they should be STO players)
better #3 RB than Jennings, a
better #4 OG than Wallace, or perhaps
a better #5 CB than Woods (or better #4 than Austin)

 

[JoeSixPat]

I don't know if they would want to take on that salary for him at this point in his career. Can probably find the same production much cheaper but I never want to invest much in RB.

The only upside to that would be that they'd probably have to give up next to nothing in terms of draft picks to take that salary off their hands.

It's basically a 1 year contract for the Pats at this point - potentially allowing them to draft his replacement for future savings rather than even paying a younger free agent even more in guaranteed money for next season.

But I tend to agree, the salary doesn't fit our need for a short yardarge plough ahead back

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Isn't Woodson our free safety?

Free Safety and Strong Safety are used somewhat interchangably. I think of the Free Safety as more of a cover safety, and the Strong Safety as more of a run stopping safety. Since there are a lot of 2 or 3 high defenses, the Free and Strong designation is lost. D McCourty was a Free Safety but he would drop down and cover a TE which is traditionally more of a Strong Safety function (P Chung). So the safety stuff is fluid. I think of a Free Safety being more capable of covering a WR, whereas a Strong Safety is more suited to cover a TE or RB. When a single high safety defense is used, the single high guy is usually Free Safety, a cover corner playing safety.

Woodson is more in the strond safety mold IMO. I do not think that Dugger or Woodson would be successful in covering Olave. Woodson might be better at covering Olave than Dugger, but both are not ideal, IMO.

 

[patfanken]

Ok, after all the gathered info and opinions that have been offered, I now have my top 3 trades and their priorities. Unfortunately 2 of them are within the division which make them less likely and/or will increase the cost to get them.

The priorities are #1 - Safety
#2 - RB
#3 - Edge

For the most part I'm not looking for the stars, just someone solid to add to the depth of the rotation and upgrade us athletically. Hawkins would make a fine #3 safety. The addition of Budda Baker would be the bolt of lightning that would jump start our defense for the "adequate" category to something to be worried about. His addition would make EVERY one better. I'd be willing to part with a day two pick if we can get him signed to a 2 to 3 year deal.

RB- Bryce H the Jets RB would seem to be ideal, but any of the vast number of guys that have been bantyed about would be find. The fact is we don't need a replacement per se, we just need a 3rd guy to replace Gibson and do what he did. It would probably take an overpay to get them trade within the division. A 4th at a minimum.

Edge - Phillips is the type of guy I'm looking for. Not a star...yet, but someone coming off 2 years of injuries, playing good if not spectacular football and would add depth and the POTENTIAL to be something more.

IIRC we DON'T need another WR. We are currently the 6th best passing attack in the league and are no where NEAR our peak potential with our current group. Think about it. given the cap and draft assets it would take to get a true #1 WR, will the group's production go up THAT much from where it is now or would he just be taking targets and yds from the guys who are already here.?

Finally, based on what I'm hearing, with all the talk of the running game, is that we are NOT as far as it would seem from getting a respectable run game, good enough to compliment and already very good passing game. Good running games take a lot of timing in the blocking and cuts for the backs. I partially blame the soft camps and the fact the OL is unfamiliar with each other and the RB's.

If you look closely at the play where Maye makes that great pass with the Bill's DT dragging on his left arm. I wanted to know how he got there. It turns out that he lined up over Wilson's inside shoulder at the snap BOTH Wilson and Campbell pull down to the right and BOTH pass up this guy and he ends up following Campbell and chases down Maye as he slows down his roll out. No one touched him, or even saw him. That's a mistake, either in execution or design. Maybe Campbell should have peeled back and taken him. Maybe Josh thought the ball would be out before the DT could be a factor. We don't know. That is why PFF scores are just indications not absolutes.

Point being is just because the running game isn't working now, doesn't mean it won't improve with more familiarity on the part of a group playing a new offense, and don't know each other from adam.

 

[imahobgoblin]

The Pats have a real head coach now. That’s part of the reason why they’re winning.

Duh