NFL GAME DAY DISCUSSION Week 5 Other Games - Thursday Night Football Edition

[TinhWoodhead]

Mac looked purdy good last night

 

[Toofy]

49ers could have got Mac Jones to perform at purdy level or purdy 80% for 5 years 100 million, 60 million guaranteed .

This will be another big contract that will bite them. The reclamation projects are working great for 3-4 years till you find the one.

Geno Smith, Sam darnold, Baker Mayfield , Daniel Jones and now possibly Mac Jones.

 

[Rob0729]

Last night we saw what Mac Jones might have been if Patriots didn't put on an absolute clinic on how to ruin a young QB. I always believed that Mac Jones could be a good QB if he was put a good situation. He isn't a guy who can elevate a bad offense, but put him in the right system with the right players around him, he can be a top 15 QB.

That said, I am glad it didn't work out with Jones. Drake Maye has the talent to potentially become a top 5 QB. If the Patriots didn't ruin Mac, there would have been no Drake Maye in New England. I think the Pats are better off with him than Mac.

 

[sb1]

Wussy's excuses for Belichick and Mac Jones in 3...2..1...

 

[sb1]

Last night we saw what Mac Jones might have been if Patriots didn't put on an absolute clinic on how to ruin a young QB. I always believed that Mac Jones could be a good QB if he was put a good situation. He isn't a guy who can elevate a bad offense, but put him in the right system with the right players around him, he can be a top 15 QB.

That said, I am glad it didn't work out with Jones. Drake Maye has the talent to potentially become a top 5 QB. If the Patriots didn't ruin Mac, there would have been no Drake Maye in New England. I think the Pats are better off with him than Mac.

Jones is a guy who you'd give the system QB label. Although to be fair that wasn't the optimal 49ers lineup and he did well.

Hard to not wonder what the Pats offense would have looked like if they kept Bourne around.

 

[AQPE]

Mac can be a good to very good QB with talent around him, protection and good play calling like tonight.
Still think he has a weak arm and is not very mobile and makes risky passes too often. He does not have a good deep ball.

I think Drake Maye is (will be better). He is bigger, stronger, much better arm and more mobile. I also think he is a better leader.

This is exactly what I mean about you as a poster. Too many “hawt takez” by you getting in the way of your really good insights. More like this one please!

 

[Bill Lee]

is there gonna be a “mac jones thanks us for the hate/doubt” thread…

Funny, I was thinking it'd be a "Bill without Josh" thread.

Jones looks pretty good with good coaching. Who would have thought?

That didn't take long!

 

[Racervx54]

Probably safe to say BB was the problem here in NE. Wonder what Kraft whould give to have the last 5 years back for a do over. BB chased the greatest Qb in NFL history out of Boston and Robert Kraft let it happen.

 

[Rob0729]

Speaking of teams ruining

Jones is a guy who you'd give the system QB label. Although to be fair that wasn't the optimal 49ers lineup and he did well.

Hard to not wonder what the Pats offense would have looked like if they kept Bourne around.

Shanahan always puts his QBs in the best position to succeed no matter the talent on the field. But the 49ers o-line did a great job protecting Jones for the most part last night (although he did take some big hits while throwing). McCaffrey is still a match up nightmare. Kendrick Bourne can be awesome for short bursts.

This isn't the 49ers' offense of three or four years ago when Deebo was still great and McCaffrey was always healthy and unstoppable and an elite o-line, but there is still enough talent there to make system QBs like Mac good when managed properly.

 

[Rob0729]

49ers could have got Mac Jones to perform at purdy level or purdy 80% for 5 years 100 million, 60 million guaranteed .

This will be another big contract that will bite them. The reclamation projects are working great for 3-4 years till you find the one.

Geno Smith, Sam darnold, Baker Mayfield , Daniel Jones and now possibly Mac Jones.

Smith, Darnold, and Mayfield and now possibly the two Joneses show that many times when a top drafted QB fails, it isn't always on them and it is because they went to bad teams who didn't develop them correctly and set them up for failure. Sure, only Mayfield is remotely living up to his draft position, but the others are showing they could have been good enough to win if they were developed correctly and put in position to succeed. Bad teams ruin young QBs.

But in today's NFL, I wouldn't want to draft a player like Smith or Darnold and have them perform like they are now. With the contracts for QBs, you need them to be either be a top 10 QB or a bust. Too many average to slightly above average QBs are getting ridiculous deals. Hell, even some below average QBs are too.

 

[mosi's man]

It's amazing to me how people feel the need to stick to their narratives. Whether it's Bellichick, Brady, Mac Jones, Lamar Jackson's excellence, or whoever, people can't accept what their "lyin' eyes" are telling them. Jones led his team to victory with a bunch of guys out, playing with second stringers (and our castaways) yet there are questions regarding whether he played an excellent game. Posters have suggested the Jones isn't tough, despite reports that he was injured twice last night. Other say he got lucky (threw a potential pick). Which NFL quarterback routinely drops back 49 times while under pressure and doesn't throw a ball or two up for grabs? It was only one game, but come on. Nearly everyone outside of our fanbase would point out the obvious truth and say the guy played his ass off last night but God forbid we give him any credit. It might detract from his coaching in New England. It's so tiring to go round and round on this ****.

 

[Rob0729]

Probably safe to say BB was the problem here in NE. Wonder what Kraft whould give to have the last 5 years back for a do over. BB chased the greatest Qb in NFL history out of Boston and Robert Kraft let it happen.

I am sure Bob would like a do over. But I am not sure Jonathan would even though I think Jonathan was the one who wanted to move on from Belichick long before Robert came to terms with it.

If you look at all the QBs who have been drafted over the last five years and who the Pats could have gotten with the same or better record, I don't think there is a QB that the Pats could have gotten who is remotely as good as Drake Maye. I know I am getting ahead of myself, but if Maye's promise is lived up to, the last five years was well worth what happened because the Pats have the possibility to be a perennial contender for the next 10-20 years. It won't be like the Brady years, but they could be in the hunt for the AFC title and the Super Bowl most years and maybe win a Lombardi or two.

I don't think there is another QB that the Pats could have gotten with the same or better record that you could say that right now.

Granted Belichick passed on Lamar Jackson despite McDaniels going to bat for the pick, but that was in 2018.

I think Jonathan would take 5 years of misery to have 20 years of making the Patriots relevant and a contender.

 

[Toofy]

I think Jones game yesterday and Bourne breaking out a career day confirms that we had subpar coaching the last 5 years . No doubt.

Brady held it to a certain point, knew it was useless with poor drafts and inept coaching and left. When McDaniels and scar left, bill just couldn't do anything.

He probably was well past his sell by date by 2021. Thankfully due to ron Rivera we got gonzo , else... Unbelievable.

 

[mike_usagisan]

I know McDaniels doesn't always get a lot of credit, but look what he did with Mac in year one vs. Year two and the vast improvement in Maye from year one to this year. We no longer hear about spacing issues with receivers and all that incompetent stuff of the last three years. I think we're really lucky he's back and probably won't get another shot at HC anytime soon.

 

[Bill Lee]

Mac looks good, maybe shouldn’t have given up on him and got him some talent around him

Maybe what you shouldn't do is react to Josh McDaniels leaving by installing MP and JJ to run your offense, let Shaq Mason and Ted Karas leave and replace them with Cole Strange and a collection of bargain-basement linemen, etc.

Last night we saw what Mac Jones might have been if Patriots didn't put on an absolute clinic on how to ruin a young QB. I always believed that Mac Jones could be a good QB if he was put a good situation. He isn't a guy who can elevate a bad offense, but put him in the right system with the right players around him, he can be a top 15 QB.

One draft comp I liked for Mac Jones was Derek Carr. Good enough to keep you in games, not good enough to win games on his own.

That said, I am glad it didn't work out with Jones. Drake Maye has the talent to potentially become a top 5 QB. If the Patriots didn't ruin Mac, there would have been no Drake Maye in New England. I think the Pats are better off with him than Mac.

That's fine, but still, it's not like this GOAT coach had a great plan to use Mac to get Drake. He did indeed fail to develop a major asset that he was given. He also failed to hire competent coaches for the entire offensive side of the ball, made notoriously bad draft choices for wide receivers, under-invested in OL talent, never found a good replacement for Scar, etc.

I also don't think this was planned but ironically or not what did get us Drake was everything Bill was against, namely Mayo getting the HC position, Wolf getting power over personnel, etc.

 

[maust]

I ask 'cause that game last night? I certainly was. That's what football can give you sometimes. Not as often as it used to maybe, the gap between the few haves vs the have nots being what it is, but there's still gold in them there hills.

 

[Bill Lee]

Smith, Darnold, and Mayfield and now possibly the two Joneses show that many times when a top drafted QB fails, it isn't always on them and it is because they went to bad teams who didn't develop them correctly and set them up for failure.

Queue the Tom Brady video explaining that offensive coordinators should be ranked just like QBs are, and how the OC can make or break a young QB.

Sure, only Mayfield is remotely living up to his draft position, but the others are showing they could have been good enough to win if they were developed correctly and put in position to succeed. Bad teams ruin young QBs.

IMO draft position means very little with Brady being the obvious example. Mac was drafted 15. So much of that isn't about Mac. So much about that is what the various teams perceive their need at that point in time and how they perceive the value of other talented players both at QB or at other positions.

But in today's NFL, I wouldn't want to draft a player like Smith or Darnold and have them perform like they are now. With the contracts for QBs, you need them to be either be a top 10 QB or a bust. Too many average to slightly above average QBs are getting ridiculous deals. Hell, even some below average QBs are too.

It reminds me of the engineering maxim of "fail fast". Shoot for the moon, but if it doesn't work out, move on to a different solution ASAP.

The problem with this is ownership, marketing and the fan base invest a lot in a new player, especially one as visible as a high draft pick QB.

So, regardless of the collaboration nonsense etc what if Bill really thought Jones had peaked after Year 1 and he wanted to trade him for as much draft capital as he could get in the off season, would ownership, marketing and the fan base let him get away with that?

This thread has a lot of evidence of how fan bases pine for former players. The collective 'we' have a hard time moving on, it seems to me.

So I think the answer is no that Bill could not 'fail fast' with Mac, and the implication is that 'fail fast' is in general hard to do in the NFL, and indeed this leads to a lot of mediocre QBs getting big second contracts. Tua Tongavailoa says hi!

GMs and owners feel it's safer/better to overpay mediocre talent than to let that talent walk and some other team be seen as getting the gains of your investments. They don't want to deal with butthurt fan bases. In turn that's the down side of us being so fascinated with the draft. We get butthurt when we see Mac doing well instead of accepting he just didn't work here and it was time for both sides to move on.

 

[Thelonious]

I am very happy to see Mac Jones doing well. His ill treatment here by a vindictive Bill Belichick in decline was ugly and unnecessary. It is gratifying to see that wrong righted.

 

[borg]

Mac looked purdy good last night

Great on the field, but his unrestrained performance off the field was next level drama queen.

 

[p8ryts]

I am very happy to see Mac Jones doing well. His ill treatment here by a vindictive Bill Belichick in decline was ugly and unnecessary. It is gratifying to see that wrong righted.

I am happy for Mac Jones. Not happy that you have to highlight your vindictiveness at every opportunity. I forgive you.