When do you think the Patriots will be SB Contenders?

[pazrul72]

I do think one thing that hurts us is that we’ll basically be getting zilch from the 2024 class besides Maye. Maybe Wallace can turn into a starter someday on the line? But that’s it.

23 at least has Gonzo as a major building block piece. After that, we also landed White, Mapu, Boutte and Baringer. So it wasn’t like we got nothing from the rest of the class.

20-22 still has Barmore, Marcus Jones, Onwenu, Rhamondre, maybe Dugger if he can fix himself. It’s not a lot, but the poor drafting from 20-24 at least had a few big pieces we’re building off from. Just not a ton.

This reminded me of one other point, building blocks. If you had to say what are the most important, hard to draft positions in football? My list is in order QB, CB, LT, Edge. The 2000 draft is one of the best Patriot drafts ever and it's purely because they got Brady. Nothing else matters if it's just one draft because you can get other pieces cheaper and easier. The Pats have young potential top 10 players at 3 of the hardest to find positions and the bill for them won't be due for another 2-3 years giving them an outstanding opportunity to add other pieces to what should be a solid core for the next decade. Exciting times to be a Pats fan

 

[BUSTAMOVE]

Hard to say:
If Maye can show that he can win tight games with game winning drives
Then 2-3 years. With also having an above average defense
You still will need a deep roster which will take at least 2 years
Injuries and rotational players go hand in hand besides having fresh players in the biggest games
I think Vrabel is a decent coach and is creating a culture which teams need to push forward
If Drake has the IT factor at the end of games
Then we will have a true Contender for years to come
If not then your Defense needs to-be exceptional

 

[DoubleDeluxe]

Hard to say:
If Maye can show that he can win tight games with game winning drives
Then 2-3 years. With also having an above average defense
You still will need a deep roster which will take at least 2 years

If you have a top 5ish QB, 2-3 years is not realistic.
Daniels was a top 5 QB last year, the rest of Washington’s roster was not great nor deep.
Besides McLaurin, no WR of note
And old Zach Ertz.
No dynamic RB (a decent Thomas Jr and an old Eckler)
Their O line was below average
Their defense was below average

You could easily argue we have more potential or current blue chipers than Wash did last year (Maye, Henderson, Gonzo, Williams, Barmore, Campbell).

Again, not saying we would win or be a SB favorite next season, but we should be a contender.

Just my opinion, but it’s kinda the way it goes when you find a true franchise, top
5 QB the timeline gets greatly expedited.

 

[Hugepatsfan]

If you have a top 5ish QB, 2-3 years is not realistic.
Daniels was a top 5 QB last year, the rest of Washington’s roster was not great nor deep.
Besides McLaurin, no WR of note
And old Zach Ertz.
No dynamic RB (a decent Thomas Jr and an old Eckler)
Their O line was below average
Their defense was below average

You could easily argue we have more potential or current blue chipers than Wash did last year (Maye, Henderson, Gonzo, Williams, Barmore, Campbell).

Again, not saying we would win or be a SB favorite next season, but we should be a contender.

Just my opinion, but it’s kinda the way it goes when you find a true franchise, top
5 QB the timeline gets greatly expedited.

I don't think Daniels was or is even close to a top 5 QB and WAS just had a fluke run as a team. They pulled out a close win against a decent, but not great TB team and then caught the heavy favorite Lions with their pants down. In single elimination playoff games sometimes a team can make an unexpected run. I wouldn't look at last year's WA team as having any predictive power or being some master indicator of NFL trends.

 

[BUSTAMOVE]

If you have a top 5ish QB, 2-3 years is not realistic.
Daniels was a top 5 QB last year, the rest of Washington’s roster was not great nor deep.
Besides McLaurin, no WR of note
And old Zach Ertz.
No dynamic RB (a decent Thomas Jr and an old Eckler)
Their O line was below average
Their defense was below average

You could easily argue we have more potential or current blue chipers than Wash did last year (Maye, Henderson, Gonzo, Williams, Barmore, Campbell).

Again, not saying we would win or be a SB favorite next season, but we should be a contender.

Just my opinion, but it’s kinda the way it goes when you find a true franchise, top
5 QB the timeline gets greatly expedited.

To me a SB Contender is a team made for SB runs
Not a flash in the pan
We know how hard that is
We still have a ways to go
Maye looks amazing but I want him to start succeeding with the game on the line
I think he is a tough minded kid and will get there
We are in a Conference with. Mahomes and Allen
A Contender has to be able to beat them in the playoffs

 

[Ring 6]

A top 5 QB with an average roster and good coaching should equal a perennial contender, barring injury. The rest is mostly luck and attrition.

Pats are not far from having that.

They may already have that bit there isn’t enough sample size yet to
confirm.

 

[Ring 6]

Hard to say:
If Maye can show that he can win tight games with game winning drives
Then 2-3 years. With also having an above average defense
You still will need a deep roster which will take at least 2 years
Injuries and rotational players go hand in hand besides having fresh players in the biggest games
I think Vrabel is a decent coach and is creating a culture which teams need to push forward
If Drake has the IT factor at the end of games
Then we will have a true Contender for years to come
If not then your Defense needs to-be exceptional

Can you give an example of a team that you consider to have a deep roster?
I think if you research it while we like to complain about depth, we are pretty similar to most all teams. Quality depth players really don’t exist. They are all either not good enough or unproven.

 

[Wozzy]

If healthy and they continue to improve… this season.

 

[VrabelJr]

We need to re-build this team as we build it. Vrabel went and got a lot of vets that won't be here in 2 years, probably so that the young players can learn what winning is like. The right side of the OL and Center will be replaced. Landry will be 32. Henry will be 33. Diggs 34. Probably a few others I can't think of right now.

Gotta nail every draft and FA.

 

[signbabybrady]

We need to re-build this team as we build it. Vrabel went and got a lot of vets that won't be here in 2 years, probably so that the young players can learn what winning is like. The right side of the OL and Center will be replaced. Landry will be 32. Henry will be 33. Diggs 34. Probably a few others I can't think of right now.

Gotta nail every draft and FA.

That's why we have to just win now!

 

[BUSTAMOVE]

Can you give an example of a team that you consider to have a deep roster?
I think if you research it while we like to complain about depth, we are pretty similar to most all teams. Quality depth players really don’t exist. They are all either not good enough or unproven.

My philosophy goes back to Brady years and being able to get players on the discounted rate
We always had a good deep team
I did a little research. Although teams like Philly, Lions and Ravens have some good talented depth at key positions.
Overall they have some Holes and not much depth in other positions
I still believe we need to get better at WR, RB, OL, LB which will create depth
Although it could happen in 1 year. I believe it will take multiple years
But you’re right on the point that in this modern NFL. 53 player depth is non existent

 

[BobDigital]

No idea if they will or won't anytime soon. They hopefully will and have the potential to. But i would say it is still a matter of 'if' not a matter of 'when'. They have some things they still need to address before contending.

Maye - i want to believe he is the real deal. I really do. But the fact is we are basing a lot on a very small sample size vs some bad defenses. A lot of people are jumping the gun just a tad projecting him to be elite already as if it is very close to just a matter of time. I am not so sure. It is more likely than it was at the start of the season and we are seeing good signs. But the sample size is just too small. Give it 4 more games and we will know his trajectory a lot better. Even if he still has some downs along with those ups in the next 4 games and comes down to earth a little. As long as he is still kind of close, that really should be enough data to say yes, he is going to be a top 10 and maybe even top 5 QB soon.

OL - Campbell and Wilson seem like long term solutions. Campbell particularly is important at that all important LT spot. But they still need to address this line. Bradbury has been solid but is a stop gap. Onwenu is not worth his contract. Will he renogotiate or will they need to solve that spot next year too. And Moses has shown signs of decline a his age though he still has this 1 decent year left i think and maybe 1 more. They may well need to rebuild that entire side of the OL next year.

WR/TE - The pass catchers are still a problem. Henry has been great, and Hooper good. But they sadly are not in our long term plans. Neither is Diggs. Douglas and Maye is not working right now. Boutte is solid as a long term piece, but just an option. What do they really have here going forward? Williams and Chism have not shown anything yet. Hopefully by the end of the year we will feel better about those 2 if they are given looks and a chance. But right now this spot is not looking good. Hopefully by the end of the year our future prospects are more hopeful. They need to really badly find that #1 option of the future.

As for the D as a whole. It has been okay. But it is just so thin. They need CB depth, improvement at LB. A little DL help. Just a little help all around. They are inconsistent, they go from sleeve to lock down D in the blink of an eye. They have the pieces. But just need that little more to be more consistent, particularly on the back end. I think they have the skeleton of a championship D. Just need that 4th CB who can fill in as a decent spot starter, a little more in the pass rush, and an LB with more speed to cover stretch plays. Also a bit of safety help. So basically just a little bit everywhere.

 

[Huckleberry1]

27'.

I think they can make a run at a wild card spot this season, maybe even win a playoff game. In 26' I expect them to give Buffalo a real run for the division, and to win at least one playoff game. In 27' I expect them to win the East and be in the AFC Championship game. And I consider team's that are in the final 4 to be Lombardi contenders.

 

[sb1]

The Pats to me can be the 2018 Bills in Allen’s sophomore season. They played a road wild card game and came that close to an upset.

Can be. Not will be.

 

[KCSVEN]

If you are talking Chiefs, Eagles, Ravens, Bills of recent times, meaning always in the playoffs and have a shot at Super Bowl then 2027 seems the timeline to me.
If you are talking, get hot, everything breaks right, and you have a superstar QB, it COULD be as early as this year though unlikely.

What Pats need to get to the first level talked about:
1-Be able to compete to win division- (Must beat Buffalo) No evidence They are at that level
2-Draft well for 3 years (1 down, 2 to go)
3-Have a top 5 QB, the closer to top 1 the better the chance (IMO that's a given, I thought when drafted Maye would be the #1 QB in the NFL within 3-5 years, but he is highly likely to be top 5)

Having a favorable schedule helps. The Pats would expect to lose to the main contenders in 2025.
They need to get to the point where they would expect to split against the top teams.

2025 schedule is easy, 2026 shapes up as hard, 2027 as moderate

They need to add to the defense first and then add a few more pieces on offense.
I think Maye will carry them a long way but think 2 more drafts to accomplish that is probably most realistic.

 

[sb1]

If you are talking Chiefs, Eagles, Ravens, Bills of recent times, meaning always in the playoffs and have a shot at Super Bowl then 2027 seems the timeline to me.
If you are talking, get hot, everything breaks right, and you have a superstar QB, it COULD be as early as this year though unlikely.

What Pats need to get to the first level talked about:
1-Be able to compete to win division- (Must beat Buffalo) No evidence They are at that level
2-Draft well for 3 years (1 down, 2 to go)
3-Have a top 5 QB, the closer to top 1 the better the chance (IMO that's a given, I thought when drafted Maye would be the #1 QB in the NFL within 3-5 years, but he is highly likely to be top 5)

Having a favorable schedule helps. The Pats would expect to lose to the main contenders in 2025.
They need to get to the point where they would expect to split against the top teams.

2025 schedule is easy, 2026 shapes up as hard, 2027 as moderate

They need to add to the defense first and then add a few more pieces on offense.
I think Maye will carry them a long way but think 2 more drafts to accomplish that is probably most realistic.

If Maye is the guy. Otherwise who knows…

 

[Ring 6]

My philosophy goes back to Brady years and being able to get players on the discounted rate
We always had a good deep team
I did a little research. Although teams like Philly, Lions and Ravens have some good talented depth at key positions.
Overall they have some Holes and not much depth in other positions
I still believe we need to get better at WR, RB, OL, LB which will create depth
Although it could happen in 1 year. I believe it will take multiple years
But you’re right on the point that in this modern NFL. 53 player depth is non existent

When you look at the patriots, we certainly need a better backup QB.
RB depth is probably as good as anyone has.
We have 2 quality TEs, I doubt many teams have a 3rd to speak of.
WR, who knows. I think Hollins shouldn’t be in the league but Williams, Douglas, Chism at 4-5-6 is actually better than most teams.
OL is where you see the reality. Our depth guys stink but they aren’t any worse than anyone else’s. Lowe at least has experience. Brown has started and didn’t **** the bed yesterday. Bryant is unknown, Wallace is a prayer.

On defense having White, Jennings, Tonga and Farmer as a backup front 4 is probably as good as anyone. Gibbens is really the starter now, so is Eliss a terrible backup? Yes, but who has any LB depth? Mapu is a good pass sub package guy. Tavai is a good backup when he comes back.
In the secondary Austin had issues but is a pretty would cb4. I don’t like what we have behind him but I doubt I would like any teams cb5.
At S Duggar, getting healthier is a pretty solid backup.

The real answer to who has good depth is who stays healthy and doesn’t need it.

This team is behind to show an identity.
Drake Maye is going to put it in his shoulders. We will run the ball to support him, but he’s the man.
We will scheme to overcome OL flaws.
We will play defense in their side of the LOS and defensively by making a big play to killl a drive.
We will play to the echo if the whistle, and be smart enough to take advantage of bad football.

It’s a solid formula.

 

[TommyD4207]

I've seen alot of posts about rebuilding a creating a great culture again. Assuming Maye pans out, the defense gets better, and a top WR is added, when do you think the team should be SB contenders? Meaning, winning the division and as good as other top teams.

2027.

 

[BUSTAMOVE]

When you look at the patriots, we certainly need a better backup QB.
RB depth is probably as good as anyone has.
We have 2 quality TEs, I doubt many teams have a 3rd to speak of.
WR, who knows. I think Hollins shouldn’t be in the league but Williams, Douglas, Chism at 4-5-6 is actually better than most teams.
OL is where you see the reality. Our depth guys stink but they aren’t any worse than anyone else’s. Lowe at least has experience. Brown has started and didn’t **** the bed yesterday. Bryant is unknown, Wallace is a prayer.

On defense having White, Jennings, Tonga and Farmer as a backup front 4 is probably as good as anyone. Gibbens is really the starter now, so is Eliss a terrible backup? Yes, but who has any LB depth? Mapu is a good pass sub package guy. Tavai is a good backup when he comes back.
In the secondary Austin had issues but is a pretty would cb4. I don’t like what we have behind him but I doubt I would like any teams cb5.
At S Duggar, getting healthier is a pretty solid backup.

The real answer to who has good depth is who stays healthy and doesn’t need it.

This team is behind to show an identity.
Drake Maye is going to put it in his shoulders. We will run the ball to support him, but he’s the man.
We will scheme to overcome OL flaws.
We will play defense in their side of the LOS and defensively by making a big play to killl a drive.
We will play to the echo if the whistle, and be smart enough to take advantage of bad football.

It’s a solid formula.

It also becomes a mindset on knowing how to win
I am thrilled having Maye
He has all the other intangibles and is tough minded
We will soon see if he has that champion mindset
Arrow is pointing up

 

[TheRainMaker]

If they beat the Bills this Sunday, we will start talking about it immediately.

Chargers are cooked. Denver is as advertised (mediocre), Baltimore is imploding. All these teams are keeping the window back open for your Chiefs.