The Bill megathread (HC at UNC, girlfriend, etc.)

[signbabybrady]

 

[lancerman]

That's the thing though in summer of 2018 he would have been locking up a 41 2 years early and through 45. At least that's what Tom wanted at the time. Not completely unjustified for the greatest QB but also a tough sell to any GM (& the franchise tag was still a possibility).

To me where Bill really screwed up was forcing him to play the lame duck year the summer of '19 he should have done whatever he could at that point. Especially when the no tag talk started.

The issue is two fold.

1. Brady just had an MVP season and played out of his mind in the Super Bowl and his defense let him down with a hugely questionable coaching decision. There were very few reasons to doubt Brady at that point. He wasn't looking to be extended until he was 45, he wanted a commitment beyond Belichick trying to go year to year with him so he could be discarded whenever he felt like it. And there was a lot of bad blood over the Super Bowl and any type of olive branch would have smoothed it over.

2. It showed a total lack of trust that Brady wouldn't know himself enough to know when he was done and also wouldn't do right by the team and and retire at the right time. Even at the time it was just very doubtful to think Brady wanting to play until he was 45 meant he was willing to play if he was hurting the team. I don't think anyone serious believed that. His time in Tampa pretty much proved he would retire at the first sign of decline.

3. They had all of 2018 and all of 2019 to think about a transition plan off Brady. They got caught with their pants down. By all accounts that was because this wasn't necessarily about a lack of trust in Brady's abilities and more about Belichick wanting the final say on when he could pull the plug and nobody in that coaching office actually believed that Brady would say he was sick of dealing with it until it was extremely obvious he was leaving and it was unstoppable.

The situation had a really easy way to avoid it and I think most of teams would have avoided it. In fact, I think if this exact scenario played out across most teams, the owner would have stepped in and overruled the coach and in our case the owner felt like he couldn't because he just stepped in to not let them pick Jimmy over Brady (because that would have been an even bigger nightmare).

This was avoidable and one person wanted to exert their control and have final say and now the consequences of that were that he got caught with his pants down without a QB, his former QB won without him which heavily shifted the narrative of the comparison between the two, and he flamed out without ever finding a replacement and ultimately left the league with major question marks and lacking a record he had been chasing.

He could have saved himself a lot of trouble. Fans would not have blamed Belichick even if Brady declined and we had a dud season. Fans would have been happier watching Brady retire a Patriot and only being associated with this franchise the way Lakers fans with Kobe and Yankees fans with Jeter have that as a big hallmark moment. Belichick would not have to deal with his QB winning without him and all the comparison and narratives across the NFL that created and how it effected how people view him. And it would have likely extended the clock on Bill for working for a rebuild. The clock would have stared in 2022 or 2023 depending on when Brady retired instead of 2020. He'd still be coaching the team and he'd probably have a good shot at Shula's record.

 

[lancerman]

I personally was OK with Bill making the call to move on from Tom. As above IMO I thought the team needed a major rebuild after 2018 and could see why the brain trust was thinking paying Tom franchise QB money during a rebuild that he probably would not see the end of didn't make a lot of sense.

I was surprised by the off-season before the 2019-2020 season. I was expecting Bill would find an under-valued QB that had some upside to his game. That's the kind of move a GOAT coach would be able to make work. I was not expecting we'd get a guy like Cam Newton who clearly had no upside left. We were waiting most of the off-season to see what rabbit Bill would pull out of his hat. Instead, Bill pulled a turd out of his butt.

In 2021 we can debate if the Krafts "meddled" with Bill, or if the Krafts felt Bill was losing his fastball and they needed to try to help him not make more dumb moves like Cam Newton and N'Keal Harry. Maybe they leaned on Bill to take Mac Jones, but maybe they felt they had to prevent Bill from taking a defensive player and trying to make another retread like Cam Newton work at QB while their franchise circled the drain.

2022 brought us the MP, JJ and Sons "era". That's where Bill's decision making process has broken down. It's clear he's really pulling stuff out of his butt by then. If he has decided he has to surround himself with loyalists to counter the Krafts, well, that's a dumb decision because he simply can't defeat the ownership. If he "wins" he gets fired anyway. The wise and honorable thing to do is to leave and find a job elsewhere. The foolish and dishonorable thing to do is take the money and watch Rome burn. If he wanted to create chaos to spite the Krafts, he clearly didn't realize how much of that would blow back on him. The bad judgement along with the creation of mistrust is IMO the primary reason why other owners wouldn't hire him once he did leave.

The issue was that even signing Cam Newton showed how off the mark we were. People legit tricked themselves into thinking that Belichick would never let Brady walk without a back up plan and that Stidham had to be legit and an heir apparent. Then last minute we sign a washed QB and make him the starter. That was a massive red flag.

 

[Huckleberry1]

While that is true…Brady’s presence also let Bill get away with a margin for error that no other coach/GM had. That’s a massive advantage. As is Bill having the freedom to focus on what he did best on defense.

He was one of the all time great coaches before Brady left and that is what his legacy is built on. But even the coaching part cratered after he pushed Tom out the door. I said during the Covid season that the team was poorly coached that year and it only got worse.

And no way no how Tom allows Bill to put Matt Patricia in charge of offense. That’s when he lost me for good.

Brady would have won multiple titles here with Pete or any other great coach which Bill was. I question whether Bill would have won any. Only Brady was his guy at QB. Not just a QB…a savant.


Well football is a team sport but I don’t think it’s crazy to say he was the difference between them winning a championship and some other team doing so.


Did that a while ago. Invited him to do the same but he refused. Says it all. Any tiny bit of objectivity is “hating”… lmao. So easy to trigger. The dumb is strong in that one.

You won’t let it go either so you can’t point fingers at anyone. I’m ****ing sick of it, it shows absolutely no respect for this site at all.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Bill did what most old coaches do in their last year or two on the job which is suck. The pro game passed him by. Maybe the college game breathes some life into his coaching career.

I have the feeling that’s going to be Pete Carroll’s fate in Vegas as well. 2 years and out the door.

 

[Huckleberry1]

The issue was that even signing Cam Newton showed how off the mark we were. People legit tricked themselves into thinking that Belichick would never let Brady walk without a back up plan and that Stidham had to be legit and an heir apparent. Then last minute we sign a washed QB and make him the starter. That was a massive red flag.

I think that’s the biggest indictment of Bill. It was bad enough that he made Brady so sick of him he left, but he had plenty of time to figure out how he was going to replace him, because he knew he was driving Brady out, yet had absolutely no plan to fill the biggest hole he could possibly create. That took a special kind of hubris, and essentially ended Bill’s career here as well.

 

[signbabybrady]

The issue is two fold.

1. Brady just had an MVP season and played out of his mind in the Super Bowl and his defense let him down with a hugely questionable coaching decision. There were very few reasons to doubt Brady at that point. He wasn't looking to be extended until he was 45, he wanted a commitment beyond Belichick trying to go year to year with him so he could be discarded whenever he felt like it. And there was a lot of bad blood over the Super Bowl and any type of olive branch would have smoothed it over.

2. It showed a total lack of trust that Brady wouldn't know himself enough to know when he was done and also wouldn't do right by the team and and retire at the right time. Even at the time it was just very doubtful to think Brady wanting to play until he was 45 meant he was willing to play if he was hurting the team. I don't think anyone serious believed that. His time in Tampa pretty much proved he would retire at the first sign of decline.

3. They had all of 2018 and all of 2019 to think about a transition plan off Brady. They got caught with their pants down. By all accounts that was because this wasn't necessarily about a lack of trust in Brady's abilities and more about Belichick wanting the final say on when he could pull the plug and nobody in that coaching office actually believed that Brady would say he was sick of dealing with it until it was extremely obvious he was leaving and it was unstoppable.

The situation had a really easy way to avoid it and I think most of teams would have avoided it. In fact, I think if this exact scenario played out across most teams, the owner would have stepped in and overruled the coach and in our case the owner felt like he couldn't because he just stepped in to not let them pick Jimmy over Brady (because that would have been an even bigger nightmare).

This was avoidable and one person wanted to exert their control and have final say and now the consequences of that were that he got caught with his pants down without a QB, his former QB won without him which heavily shifted the narrative of the comparison between the two, and he flamed out without ever finding a replacement and ultimately left the league with major question marks and lacking a record he had been chasing.

He could have saved himself a lot of trouble. Fans would not have blamed Belichick even if Brady declined and we had a dud season. Fans would have been happier watching Brady retire a Patriot and only being associated with this franchise the way Lakers fans with Kobe and Yankees fans with Jeter have that as a big hallmark moment. Belichick would not have to deal with his QB winning without him and all the comparison and narratives across the NFL that created and how it effected how people view him. And it would have likely extended the clock on Bill for working for a rebuild. The clock would have stared in 2022 or 2023 depending on when Brady retired instead of 2020. He'd still be coaching the team and he'd probably have a good shot at Shula's record.

1. You're off a year on what I was talking about
2. Complete revisionist history Brady was set on 45 for years prior even.
3. He admitted Jackson was one of his bigger mistakes but let's not pretend Brady wasn't getting territorial with Jimmy and after. Not really a fault either he should want his spot locked.
4. Brady never gave Bill a last chance at staying and retiring here so I'm not sure what kind of Kobe Jeter thing you're putting on Bill that was Brady's choice just like buying into the Raiders isn't Krafts fault.
5. We're onto TCU go Tar Heels.

 

[signbabybrady]

I think that’s the biggest indictment of Bill. It was bad enough that he made Brady so sick of him he left, but he had plenty of time to figure out how he was going to replace him, because he knew he was driving Brady out, yet had absolutely no plan to fill the biggest hole he could possibly create. That took a special kind of hubris, and essentially ended Bill’s career here as well.

You were doing so well today then you start with the made up stuff.

Edit: 5. We're onto TCU starting now....

 

[Kdo5]

LFG!!!. I am excited for tonight.

I’m a Bill critic for the last several years but I hope he succeeds.

Will we get any booth or sideline shots of Jor-Dawn?

 

[lancerman]

1. You're off a year on what I was talking about
2. Complete revisionist history Brady was set on 45 for years prior even.
3. He admitted Jackson was one of his bigger mistakes but let's not pretend Brady wasn't getting territorial with Jimmy and after. Not really a fault either he should want his spot locked.
4. Brady never gave Bill a last chance at staying and retiring here so I'm not sure what kind of Kobe Jeter thing you're putting on Bill that was Brady's choice just like buying into the Raiders isn't Krafts fault.
5. We're onto TCU go Tar Heels.

1.You're right, not that it changes all that much.
2. Brady literally retired the year before he turned 45 and came back. He absolutely was not deadset on that.
3. Brady just won 2 Super Bowls and was playing at an MVP level. Virtually every QB is going to be protective of their position.
4. Brady didn't give the guy who wanted the control to end his career whenever he felt like it a chance to. Bill's chance to see Brady retire here was to give him the extension he wanted. He had his chance. He chose to make a pissing match out of it and lost him instead.
5. This is a Patriots board. Realistically after how **** went down when Brady left you should be forced to post on some UNC sub.

 

[lancerman]

You were doing so well today then you start with the made up stuff.

Edit: 5. We're onto TCU starting now....

Here you go: https://www.reddit.com/r/tarheels/

Much more appropriate place to discuss the game

 

[signbabybrady]

1.You're right, not that it changes all that much.
2. Brady literally retired the year before he turned 45 and came back. He absolutely was not deadset on that.
3. Brady just won 2 Super Bowls and was playing at an MVP level. Virtually every QB is going to be protective of their position.
4. Brady didn't give the guy who wanted the control to end his career whenever he felt like it a chance to. Bill's chance to see Brady retire here was to give him the extension he wanted. He had his chance. He chose to make a pissing match out of it and lost him instead.
5. This is a Patriots board. Realistically after how **** went down when Brady left you should be forced to post on some UNC sub.

4. He literally didn't make a pissing match out of it he basically let Kraft and Brady determine how it would end. I think he also thought he'd get one last chance after the season too.

6. I've always said he should have had a better succession plan and it really annoys me he waited until 21 instead of 20 to draft one. But these aren't things worth quibbling over either.

 

[signbabybrady]

Here you go: https://www.reddit.com/r/tarheels/

Much more appropriate place to discuss the game

Thanks to the mods for opening a thread for all things Bill, UNC, and such.

Now we can talk ball for a night or you can keep clucking you know I'm pretty stubborn and might not be able to contain myself when provoked.

 

[sb1]

You won’t let it go either so you can’t point fingers at anyone. I’m ****ing sick of it, it shows absolutely no respect for this site at all.

?

 

[sb1]

1.You're right, not that it changes all that much.
2. Brady literally retired the year before he turned 45 and came back. He absolutely was not deadset on that.
3. Brady just won 2 Super Bowls and was playing at an MVP level. Virtually every QB is going to be protective of their position.
4. Brady didn't give the guy who wanted the control to end his career whenever he felt like it a chance to. Bill's chance to see Brady retire here was to give him the extension he wanted. He had his chance. He chose to make a pissing match out of it and lost him instead.
5. This is a Patriots board. Realistically after how **** went down when Brady left you should be forced to post on some UNC sub.

After Bill whined like a little ***** to Volin about the “owners son” and dropping that cope line about how he always wanted to coach in college I’m not cheering for him anymore. I did but I can’t bring myself to do it now. Now if that bimbo girlfriend of his made him say these things then I take that back and he needs to drop her yesterday.

 

[PatsfanTN]

ugh, that interview just now with what’s her name just doesn’t go over well. He so Fing awkward.

 

[sb1]

Team Bill would buy these lmao

 

[sb1]

I think that’s the biggest indictment of Bill. It was bad enough that he made Brady so sick of him he left, but he had plenty of time to figure out how he was going to replace him, because he knew he was driving Brady out, yet had absolutely no plan to fill the biggest hole he could possibly create. That took a special kind of hubris, and essentially ended Bill’s career here as well.

Matt Patricia offensive coordinator ended Bill’s career here. Arrogance and hubris doesn’t get more obvious than that.

 

[h0c2000]

 

[Free_Pacman]

Here you go: https://www.reddit.com/r/tarheels/

Much more appropriate place to discuss the game

Relax, man.