Was It A Mistake To Not Trade For Joe Thuney (Poll)?

[Ross12]

the lack of cap space next year is cap shenanigans that can be easily resolved by converting large base salaries to bonuses or out right cutting contracts

onwenu & dugger, and i use these two because there is no guaranteed money left on their deals. alone can clear 25m if released before 6/1, or more if the contracts convert salary to bonuses... though at this point i am not sure dugger is going to be here this year, let alone next...

There's absolutely "methods" to create yourself some cap space but it's always nice to be able to not have to do it if you don't want to. Putting the team in a spot where taking these methods is the only way they can operate can sometimes become a problem. For instance, you guarantee the big salary of a guy in order to create cap space, but he hurts himself in camp or just falls off and isn't good anymore - now you're stuck paying him when you might have been able to get out from under that deal otherwise.

 

[stephens44]

"Was It A Mistake To Not Trade For Joe Thuney?"​

Well, fact is we should have paid the guy in the first place, along with Shaq Mason, and kept David Andrews. I thought that at the time of each one being allowed to walk out the door and it still makes sense. How many draft picks could have been used to address other areas but ended up being O-line fails? Letting Thuney and Mason go were 2 major mistakes that we're still paying for.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Its too early to tell. Lets not forget that the patriots had like 3 or 4 guys who should have been competitive at the LG position, including a former 1st round pick. Its hard to blame them for thinking it would work out.

Hard to predict it would be so unsettled at this time.

Hard to predict? Isn't it their job to predict? Aren't they paid millions a year to predict? Why is it hard for the Pats management to do their job?

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Brees was why they won games, but also why they were so upside down on the cap, they never won but the one sb...

so i understand the thought behind the saying the cap is crap, but the truth is if you dont manage it properly,it bites you in the ass and slams windows shut

my ¢2 ... ymmv

Not a strong argument, "they only won 1 SB". 12 franchises have never won a SB.

Which team in the league would not chose to go into cap hell if it meant they won a SB? None.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

There's absolutely "methods" to create yourself some cap space but it's always nice to be able to not have to do it if you don't want to. Putting the team in a spot where taking these methods is the only way they can operate can sometimes become a problem.

Especially troubling if the owner wants to have the lowest cash spend in the league.

 

[Pape]

Not a strong argument, "they only won 1 SB". 12 franchises have never won a SB.

Which team in the league would not chose to go into cap hell if it meant they won a SB? None.

come on One, you saw what that team had to go thru every year because they had to deal with the Brees contract. Of course its a strong argument... the cap issues came after Brees and co won... his contract money kept getting pushed down the road... They had yearly purges of the roster just to get under the cap... they should have won more over that period of time... given the state of the nfcs at the time, the cap management issues had a direct impact on that team/roster... it took them three years to clear his significant dead monies from the books...

I'd say it was also partly responsible for Payton leaving NO, but I can't prove that... so ymmv on that one

 

[patfanken]

The bigger mistake might have been not outbidding the bears for the C they signed that we were also chasing

 

[varjao]

I've been saying about LG for a while specially considering we would draft a rookie LT who would start immediately and needed strong LG play from his side in order to stay on his assignment and not worry about a revolving door at LG. But all things considered, free agency and draft, the right guy didn't fall for them, or maybe it did accidentaly in Wilson but I thought he was drafted to play center and I still think they should focus him on that but if there's versatily then OK I'm onboard with that too.

If they had a second 2nd round pick, I think there was a strong possibility on taking a top LG prospect. Talent is talent, even if LT and LG are rookies, not ideal but still, who knows. Like I said, I was kind happy with Campbell and Wilson at the left side even though that would mean another year of weakness at center, but right now with this Ben Brown experiment, and then Strange apparently going down the depth chart I'm really confused and worried.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

come on One, you saw what that team had to go thru every year because they had to deal with the Brees contract. Of course its a strong argument... the cap issues came after Brees and co won... his contract money kept getting pushed down the road... They had yearly purges of the roster just to get under the cap... they should have won more over that period of time... given the state of the nfcs at the time, the cap management issues had a direct impact on that team/roster... it took them three years to clear his significant dead monies from the books...

I'd say it was also partly responsible for Payton leaving NO, but I can't prove that... so ymmv on that one

There are 12 teams who have never won a SB that would be very excited to go into cap hell if that meant they won their first SB. Those teams have been waiting 30 to 50 years, going into cap hell is trivial by comparison to that long of a wait. You have lost perspective.

 

[Thunderhead]

"Was It A Mistake To Not Trade For Joe Thuney?"​

Well, fact is we should have paid the guy in the first place, along with Shaq Mason, and kept David Andrews. I thought that at the time of each one being allowed to walk out the door and it still makes sense. How many draft picks could have been used to address other areas but ended up being O-line fails? Letting Thuney and Mason go were 2 major mistakes that we're still paying for.

Pure ego by Bill. He thought, "I found AND made these guys, I can easily replace them".

 

[Pape]

You have lost perspective.

I disagree with that statement.

I believe teams can use the cap to their advantage. I also believe you should use the cap to your advantage only when necessary. But eventually, the bill comes due. Saying that running a team in a fiscally responsible manner is "losing perspective"? That's one of the stupidest things ever said on these boards, and that is saying a lot.

Proselytizing that the "Cap is Crap" is foolish to the nth degree because in fact, the cap isn't crap. Can it be manipulated? Sure can be, for a while. Can you do an end run around it? Try it and see what happens. The loss of draft picks and diminished cap space are whats been done to teams in the past.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I disagree with that statement.

I believe teams can use the cap to their advantage. I also believe you should use the cap to your advantage only when necessary. But eventually, the bill comes due. Saying that running a team in a fiscally responsible manner is "losing perspective"? That's one of the stupidest things ever said on these boards, and that is saying a lot.

Proselytizing that the "Cap is Crap" is foolish to the nth degree because in fact, the cap isn't crap. Can it be manipulated? Sure can be, for a while. Can you do an end run around it? Try it and see what happens. The loss of draft picks and diminished cap space are whats been done to teams in the past.

That is all fine, but you are changing the subject.

Teams value a SB victory much more than they worry about cap hell. The 12 teams that have never won a SB would gladly enter cap hell like the Saints did if it meant they won a SB. You said, "They (the Saints) only won 1 SB" like that was not a reason to enter cap hell. You are wrong about that. I have no interest in discussing cap strategy.

 

[Pape]

That is all fine, but you are changing the subject.

Teams value a SB victory much more than they worry about cap hell. The 12 teams that have never won a SB would gladly enter cap hell like the Saints did if it meant they won a SB. You said, "They (the Saints) only won 1 SB" like that was not a reason to enter cap hell. You are wrong about that. I have no interest in discussing cap strategy.

I'm not changing the topic. That is the topic.

and you don't want to discuss cap strategy? That's fine. Don't. Based on what you have said, you have nothing to offer in a discussion like that.

The Saints are absolutely a poster child for cap mismanagement. Year after year they shed talent just to get under the cap. They went 7-9 during in 4 out of 5 years (07 to12) run after their super bowl. No one else was filling the void. We were not winning it all during that period. They were primed to win. and couldn't even compete despite being in the worst division in the league.

And "winning just one" is not a reason to enter cap hell. The reason why you don't do that is because 1. It rarely works and 2 it is not a sustainable business practice. How many "super teams" were put together only to fail? Hell we did it with Belichicks huge splash in free agency in order to get back to relevance... How'd that work out for us? Mickey Loomis and the Sean Payton / Drew Brees combination should have won more than they did. One of the reasons why they did not was because the said "**** the cap". That's stupid.

People will say its "better to be lucky than good". Thats fine for the lottery. But in the NFL? Its better to be good than lucky. Thats what builds and sustains franchises for long term success - that gets your ticket punched for January / February football when you are considered a real contender, not a pretender.

 

[TommyD4207]

And "winning just one" is not a reason to enter cap hell.

Depends how many you've won previously. If you're the Saints, with an, at the time, 40-year history of not just losing, but being jokes, going all-in for one window was certainly a play that made sense. If that team never wins again, they'll always have 2009.

 

[Brandon_Cox]

Vrabel has famously run off all the old Bill leaders and captains. I wonder if Thuney was considered and rejected for that reason, even though he's been gone a while

 

[Pape]

Depends how many you've won previously. If you're the Saints, with an, at the time, 40-year history of not just losing, but being jokes, going all-in for one window was certainly a play that made sense. If that team never wins again, they'll always have 2009.

Jets, '69... at some point, its not enough just to get "one"

cleveland with the watson contract... reduced to rolling out the corpse of Joe Flacco under center...

how many team win like that?

 

[Real fan 02]

Without recalling what other options we could have tried my answer is yes it was a mistake.

We tagged him in 2020 covid year of course,.. just to let him walk for free to sign with KC.

 

[Since1960]

No brainer.. Answer me this, would we not be willing to take BOTH our starting guards and trade them for Joe T. so we know at least our left guard position is resolved for a couple of years? Sure would save us 2 reasonably high picks every year drafting the flotsam that we’ve been drafting the past 3 years. Heck, think of all the extra picks we’d have to draft our next future #1 WR!!

 

[JoeSixPat]

It was a mistake to let Thuney go in the first place - he's quality depth and they could use that.

But at that salary PLUS a draft pick for a 32 year old linemen? No thanks.

Despite having a rookie at LT - they need more youth

And speaking of LT, let's not forget the Pats did their best to attract one of the free agent LTs and struck out, despite probably offering the most money

 

[n1997y]

No brainer.. Answer me this, would we not be willing to take BOTH our starting guards and trade them for Joe T. so we know at least our left guard position is resolved for a couple of years? Sure would save us 2 reasonably high picks every year drafting the flotsam that we’ve been drafting the past 3 years. Heck, think of all the extra picks we’d have to draft our next future #1 WR!!

Answer is no.

Will need to spend draft picks trying to find Thuney’s successor, starting right away. He’s already long in the tooth. At best maybe good for another two to three years before his level of play declines too much to make him worth what this would cost.