The Bill megathread (HC at UNC, girlfriend, etc.)

[1960Pats]

Just a reminder that when Bledsoe went down and Brady stepped in and BB did not go back to Bledsoe, the crap hit the fan..
There was general outcry among all the sports scribes and most fans about how "BB lied to Drew" and a whole bunch of other BS.. as usual BB ignored the noise and the rest was history.
The ascendency of the Pats was a by product of that decision, if BB had handed the reigns back to Drew does anyone think that we would have seen in #12's reign???

That's pretty accurate except for the term general outcry of most fans. All of that hullabaloo was on the mediots. Sure, there were some fans who bought what the mediots were selling, but I don't remember it being that many. Most of the AOLes I knew at the time saw that Brady, once he got the chance, was better. He did a lot of the little things better than Drew.

The real question is when was Bill going to put Brady in if Drew didn't get hurt. It's possible that Bill would have kept starting Drew until it was too late, but Drew's injury changed all that. We can only guess when, or if, that change would have come otherwise.

 

[sb1]

The ironic thing is you were a big Belichick meat rider when Brady went to Tampa but you opened your eyes and admitted you were wrong

I was more upset at Tom for leaving. Big time wrong about the whole thing.

 

[patfanken]

It is WELL pat time that we lock this thread out. Nothing new to see here.

 

[sb1]

That's pretty accurate except for the term general outcry of most fans. All of that hullabaloo was on the mediots. Sure, there were some fans who bought what the mediots were selling, but I don't remember it being that many. Most of the AOLes I knew at the time saw that Brady, once he got the chance, was better. He did a lot of the little things better than Drew.

The real question is when was Bill going to put Brady in if Drew didn't get hurt. It's possible that Bill would have kept starting Drew until it was too late, but Drew's injury changed all that. We can only guess when, or if, that change would have come otherwise.

I don't think Bill would have made the move, at least not in 2001. Much harder to bench your franchise QB that was just handed a huge contract by choice than the way it played out. In Cleveland Modell agreed with Belichick's decision on Kosar but here in that scenario I don't see Kraft agreeing to it.

The other scenario is Drew gets hurt, Brady plays well but the team is still below .500 when Drew is ready to return - then what?

 

[lancerman]

It is WELL pat time that we lock this thread out. Nothing new to see here.

Nope it needs to continue until the college season starts

 

[Wozzy]

"Bills last few years here were a disaster… why?"

Is this a typo? I mean, c'mon. Your other points have some merit, but this is a real baffler. I mean, look at the record. Look at the dismal ****show of a roster he left behind. Forfeiting a Super Bowl because of personal snit. Failing to contribute to the development of a first-round QB, again out of a petty personal snit. Hiring his fatass, butt-kissing blowhard pals for jobs for which that had no qualification or aptitude. Endless lousy draft choices year after year after year. The whole, "I'm so smart I don't have to be diligent "attitude. Dumbass in-game decisions, Dumbass gameday roster decisions. And on and on. Sorry, this is a no-brainer.

The guy was great, then he wasn't. Now he's a sad embarrassment. I feel sorry for him, genuinely, but I'm not going to lie about what he became.

Jonathan and Wolf contributed to the sht show the last few years. They went from a playoff team in 2021 to bad to worse.

 

[Thelonious]

Belichick is responsible for all personnel decisions during his reign, good and bad. Those decisions led to a 20 year Dynasty and 6 Lombardi’s, no one has ever come close to that. Trying to tear him down because they faltered after a 20 year dynasty is as stupid as it gets. Feel free to show everyone a GM/Coach in the Super Bowl era who accomplished more, you won’t be able to do it. And the truth of the matter is that every dynasty in NFL history has faltered for years after their dynasty ended. If I’m not mistaken the Cowboys have won 1 playoff game since their 90’s dynasty ended. That’s the price you pay for extended greatness.

All true, but your own argument acknowledges that all dynasties, all exemplary careers, do end in time. That ending is virtually always preceded by a period of decline in which we tend to hope - ultimately in vain, in every case, as you yourself must acknowledge by the terms of your own argument - that there will be a recovery. At some point hope of such a recovery becomes delusional. Those of us who take note of Bill's decline as a HC and GM are simply noting the obvious facts of Bill's decline, a decline which, again, as your own argument affirms, is in every case inevitable.

The issue is exacerbated by Bill's embarrassing mishandling of his transition to retirement, to irrelevance, frankly. Those of us who are willing to be honest about Bill's decline are not at all happy about it. We are not "haters." In fact, lumping together Bill's glory years with his declining years in a way dishonors the former. There is no need in celebrating his good years as what they were - possibly the greatest in history - to dishonestly pretend that that greatness did not in the end fade, as greatness always does. Sic transit gloria mundi - every time, as you yourself acknowledge.

You ignore the implications of your own argument, out of an affinity for happy delusion, an aversion to facts , facts which you yourself acknowledge are entirely to be expected, in every case.

 

[Thelonious]

Jonathan and Wolf contributed to the sht show the last few years. They went from a playoff team in 2021 to bad to worse.

I agree with this. Bill should have been fired two or three years before he was. The entire Mayo thing which followed was a fiasco. The Krafts mishandled Bill's decline, but they did not cause that decline, however. Time, with a little help from Bill himself, did that.

 

[Wozzy]

I agree with this. Bill should have been fired two or three years before he was. The entire Mayo thing which followed was a fiasco. The Krafts mishandled Bill's decline, but they did not cause that decline, however. Time, with a little help from Bill himself, did that.

Bill should have fired or given full control, what ended up happening was a team being pulled in every direction but forward. No team survives a power struggle between ownership and coaching.

 

[sb1]

I agree with this. Bill should have been fired two or three years before he was. The entire Mayo thing which followed was a fiasco. The Krafts mishandled Bill's decline, but they did not cause that decline, however. Time, with a little help from Bill himself, did that.

The Matt Patricia fiasco was fireable for any coach on any team. Though if Bill was let go earlier than he was we would have probably had Mayo sooner and we saw how that went last year.

 

[lancerman]

Bill should have fired or given full control, what ended up happening was a team being pulled in every direction but forward. No team survives a power struggle between ownership and coaching.

He had full control. He was having bad drafts for years well before the collaboration you keep bringing up. In fact, one of the main reasons Kraft listed for firing Bill was because he didn't think it was possible to pull control away from him and force him to have other people who had final say in team building while maintaining Bill's position on the team.

I

 

[Bill Lee]

It is WELL pat time that we lock this thread out. Nothing new to see here.

Look at the bright side, it is the black hole of **** posting for this site, it (slightly?) helps the rest of the threads stay on topic.



So, is it Tom who made the Dynasty happen, or is it Bill?

 

[lancerman]

The Matt Patricia fiasco was fireable for any coach on any team. Though if Bill was let go earlier than he was we would have probably had Mayo sooner and we saw how that went last year.

No coach besides Bill Belichick would have been allowed to make that decision. And he showed why that was the case.

 

[sb1]

Look at the bright side, it is the black hole of **** posting for this site, it (slightly?) helps the rest of the threads stay on topic.



So, is it Tom who made the Dynasty happen, or is it Bill?

Compromise....I take full credit for the dynasty. It was all me. No need to thank me, just keep me in mind when you see all those trophies.

 

[signbabybrady]

All true, but your own argument acknowledges that all dynasties, all exemplary careers, do end in time. That ending is virtually always preceded by a period of decline in which we tend to hope - ultimately in vain, in every case, as you yourself must acknowledge by the terms of your own argument - that there will be a recovery. At some point hope of such a recovery becomes delusional. Those of us who take note of Bill's decline as a HC and GM are simply noting the obvious facts of Bill's decline, a decline which, again, as your own argument affirms, is in every case inevitable.

The issue is exacerbated by Bill's embarrassing mishandling of his transition to retirement, to irrelevance, frankly. Those of us who are willing to be honest about Bill's decline are not at all happy about it. We are not "haters." In fact, lumping together Bill's glory years with his declining years in a way dishonors the former. There is no need in celebrating his good years as what they were - possibly the greatest in history - to dishonestly pretend that that greatness did not in the end fade, as greatness always does. Sic transit gloria mundi - every time, as you yourself acknowledge.

You ignore the implications of your own argument, out of an affinity for happy delusion, an aversion to facts , facts which you yourself acknowledge are entirely to be expected, in every case.

This might be what you think you're doing but reality is you guys have used the past few seasons as an excuse to disproportionately give more credit to Brady and simultaneously taking it away from Bill with no care for the other players and coaches who you also marginalize in the process. And no care for the fans who just want to be able to celebrate everyone's contributions.

 

[maust]

And no care for the fans who just want to be able to celebrate everyone's contributions.

Dude...



That is an Andy/Deus worthy lack of self awareness right there

 

[maust]

So, is it Tom who made the Dynasty happen, or is it Bill?

Yes

 

[signbabybrady]

Dude...



That is an Andy/Deus worthy lack of self awareness right there

How so?

 

[sb1]

I love the logic: Tom won't crap all over Bill, so I'll do it instead.

Except I'm not. It's way easier to look at Bill's time here with an objective eye now that he's not here. It aligns with what I said a few years ago that I care more about Tom post retirement than BB. Should not be a surprise that Bill was not at all successful without Brady and I believe it's because a defensive HC who built his reputation a couple decades ago no longer had an offensive savant (which Brady was) and guys like that ought to find it much harder to win in today's league than vice versa.

 

[maust]

How so?

You and the other poop flinging monkeys have shown nothing but contempt for every other fan here. The complete lack of restraint you've all put on display would be unseemly in a preschool. Dafuq man, you knew exactly what I meant but your inability to exercise even a modicum of impulse control just keeps driving the bus. I realize all I'm doing is inviting you to throw out further self justification but at least you're now aware the contempt you've displayed is now being reciprocated by yet another of the 'fans' you're supposedly championing.

I know adulting is hard but all of you please just stop with this BS