The Official Vrabel vs Ben Johnson Discussion Thread

[archstanton543]

If Vrabel was the choice all along, why even interview Ben Johnson and waste his time ? It is things like this that piss me off about Kraft, he has no regard for other people , he keeps repeating the same mistakes hoping for a different result . He is so locked into the past, that he can't see clearly. I am very surprised that Ben actually agreed to the interview, if Vrabel is announced as Head coach on Monday that means that them interviewing Ben was a total farce . If this was a true hiring process, then they should have asked Joe Brady and a few others for an interview.
I still think Ben would be a better choice even though I know that is slim to no chance of that happening.

It's called due diligence.

And if you don't believe that then they don't want to interview two guys (a "diversity" guy to satisfy Rooney and Vrable). Then the fanbase can say they didn't conduct a thorough search. They interviewed one of the hottest HC candidates out there and yet, people like you are pissed. So, it's a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation.

 

[Brotherblues]

One player who needs to rebound from his dog **** year is Dugger. He was absolutely useless

Dugger is a chess piece that can move all over the board. He requires some planning and deft maneuvering. He's a piece that's as good as the hand that wields him. This season he was in Mayo and Covington's hands...

That's how I see him anyway. If he doesn't look better with a capable DC next season, then he can pack his bags.

 

[ALP]

If you’re doing the role of interviewer well, you learn something from candidate. If you limit the candidates you talk to, you learn less.

I can’t believe they’re doing a non thorough search once again. Making the same mistakes repeatedly is inexcusable.

And I have no prob with either vrabel or bj, it’s the principle and logic

 

[Real fan 02]

I also think the Jags are in the running

Yeah.. that's true.. he could revive Lawrence.

 

[Real fan 02]

Talent level is an issue...some have hit their ceilings.

Eliss is a growing player and does give his all.. he has a role here next season in the rotation.. Jennings is a excellent run player and edge setting LB he had to play DE becuase of injury and depth issues.

 

[Love The Drake]

Majority of comments I see on other Patriot blogs/social media hate the Vrabel hire and thinks it will go like Mayo,
They overwhelmingly want Ben Johnson.
It’s interesting to me People could think Vrabel is a bad hire.

Thoughts?

 

[neckroll#14]

I think that sentiment is nonsense... MV has been a successful head coach, does not have the reputation of being a player's coach, and has connections around the league to build a staff... He may or may not be successful here as HCNEP, but I can't see any basis to think it will "go like Mayo"...

 

[mike_usagisan]

Majority of comments I see on other Patriot blogs/social media hate the Vrabel hire and thinks it will go like Mayo,
They overwhelmingly want Ben Johnson.
It’s interesting to me People could think Vrabel is a bad hire.

Thoughts?

People want something new and not something that reminds them of Bill or Mayo. They’re also excited by offense.

I think there’s also something about Vrabel’s career in Tennessee that bothers people. Either he didn’t win enough or the fall off the last two seasons was his fault. Or he shouldn’t get credit for the winning because he had a great running back.

Or it could just be that people want to be unhappy with the choice no matter who it is.

 

[PatsfanTN]

Majority of comments I see on other Patriot blogs/social media hate the Vrabel hire and thinks it will go like Mayo,
They overwhelmingly want Ben Johnson.
It’s interesting to me People could think Vrabel is a bad hire.

Thoughts?

Thoughts are this, i thought TN was stupid when they fired Vrabel to begin with. He brings credibility and stability and he HATES to lose, watch his old pressers. I like BJ, but he is unproven as a HC right now, running an entire team as HC is not the same as OC. Ask McDaniels. My only wish is that when Vrabels gets it, he gets a **** hot OC in here as well.

 

[festy1986]

Thoughts are this, i thought TN was stupid when they fired Vrabel to begin with. He brings credibility and stability and he HATES to lose, watch his old pressers. I like BJ, but he is unproven as a HC right now, running an entire team as HC is not the same as OC. Ask McDaniels. My only wish is that when Vrabels gets it, he gets a **** hot OC in here as well.

How many 6 win seasons does Vrabel get before you fire him?

Vrabel lost the team and wanted out.

 

[PatsFan2]

How many 6 win seasons does Vrabel get before you fire him?

Vrabel lost the team and wanted out.

Fiesty!!!

 

[PatsFan2]

Majority of comments I see on other Patriot blogs/social media hate the Vrabel hire and thinks it will go like Mayo,
They overwhelmingly want Ben Johnson.
It’s interesting to me People could think Vrabel is a bad hire.

Thoughts?

One thing to note: as a Defensive HC Mike Vrabel knows Offense. I can see a player like Rham reaching his potential with a HC like Vrabel: who would Bench and not reward him after careless fumbles. Yes we have a new sexy toy in Maye and a young hot shot Rookie HC in Johnson...who would probably get him to his ceiling. But my concerns are what would a Ben Johnson Defense look like?? Who are his guys?? We wouldn't have such concerns with Vrabel. The Strength of our successful Teams was always our Defense. Though I love Johnson's Potential: I'm leaning towards experiencing with Vrabel.

 

[KCSVEN]

Majority of comments I see on other Patriot blogs/social media hate the Vrabel hire and thinks it will go like Mayo,
They overwhelmingly want Ben Johnson.
It’s interesting to me People could think Vrabel is a bad hire.

Thoughts?

Because Dunning Kruger-90% of people's opinion are not based on actual knowledge but on their pre-formed opinions. 90% of people are not doing the necessary research to form a good opinion.

My first thoughts were, Vrabel is average I want Johnson. Vrabel is old school run the ball, punt on 4th down coach that doesn't use analytics and is not modern enough. I think that's the casual fan. Defensive coach in an offensive world.

What I learned in researching Vrabel is:
-On advance Analytics Vrabel was top 3 on 4th down decision making in the NFL during his Titans tenure
-Vrabel is a game plan coach, if he has to throw 50 times and run 0 to win he will do it
-His 3 absolutes are limit turnovers, effect the opposing QB (Hello Abdul Carter), and pass efficiently. Nothing about a running game
-He was run first in TN because: Derrick Henry and Tannehill/Mariota. He's going to throw the ball a lot with Drake Maye.
-He uses and knows all the analytics, as part of his decision making, doesn't mean he goes with them 100% of the time as he shouldn't

People want offense, offense wins, Ben Johnson is proven as maybe the most innovative OC in the NFL. He's the shiny new toy while Vrabel is the old, dependable, toy you always loved. I want to play with the new toy. That's what people think.

 

[Huckleberry1]

He’s absolutely a reach at 4. R2 is the appropriate area to grab a tackle prospect this year.

I tend to agree with this, but I wouldn’t wait for the second round, I would go BPA with the first pick, then move back up into the second half of the first round and draft Ersery, Simmons, or Banks / Campbell, who could end up dropping there. The other factor is free agency, as they could address both OT and DT there, and have much more freedom to draft BPA when the draft rolls around.

 

[Real fan 02]

Majority of comments I see on other Patriot blogs/social media hate the Vrabel hire and thinks it will go like Mayo,
They overwhelmingly want Ben Johnson.
It’s interesting to me People could think Vrabel is a bad hire.

Thoughts?

Those people don't know what they are talking about just my opinion. I've looked at the entire picture with Vrabel. A respected leader when he was a player, a guy who was deemed a coach on the field, locker room culture builder. As a coach he went to NCAA went to Houston and of course Tennessee. He's paid his dues, and has a wealth of experience that you need to be able to be a good HC. He knows how structure looks in a organization. He knows how a defense should look, and he understands what a great QB looks like as he caught TD passes from one!

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

I tend to agree with this, but I wouldn’t wait for the second round, I would go BPA with the first pick, then move back up into the second half of the first round and draft Ersery, Simmons, or Banks / Campbell, who could end up dropping there. The other factor is free agency, as they could address both OT and DT there, and have much more freedom to draft BPA when the draft rolls around.

We may have to move back up to ensure the LT. I’d love to walk out of here with BPA at 4 and say a tandem of Conerly Jr and Trapilo to upgrade our tackle depth.

Interesting nugget on trapilo is he’s apparently working with Scar this offseason in preparation for the draft. I would hope we reach out to see if he has Scar’s stamp of approval.

 

[Real fan 02]

Because Dunning Kruger-90% of people's opinion are not based on actual knowledge but on their pre-formed opinions. 90% of people are not doing the necessary research to form a good opinion.

My first thoughts were, Vrabel is average I want Johnson. Vrabel is old school run the ball, punt on 4th down coach that doesn't use analytics and is not modern enough. I think that's the casual fan. Defensive coach in an offensive world.

What I learned in researching Vrabel is:
-On advance Analytics Vrabel was top 3 on 4th down decision making in the NFL during his Titans tenure
-Vrabel is a game plan coach, if he has to throw 50 times and run 0 to win he will do it
-His 3 absolutes are limit turnovers, effect the opposing QB (Hello Abdul Carter), and pass efficiently. Nothing about a running game
-He was run first in TN because: Derrick Henry and Tannehill/Mariota. He's going to throw the ball a lot with Drake Maye.
-He uses and knows all the analytics, as part of his decision making, doesn't mean he goes with them 100% of the time as he shouldn't

People want offense, offense wins, Ben Johnson is proven as maybe the most innovative OC in the NFL. He's the shiny new toy while Vrabel is the old, dependable, toy you always loved. I want to play with the new toy. That's what people think.

Things that we need.. structure, direction, culture, players being held accountable. I have no problem with Ben Johnson as an offensive mind. I guess if Ben Johnson had been at other stops and had done it there then I'd be more sold on him. We need a culture reset. I'd be willing to take the total package with Vrabel and McDaniels possibly at OC. As a fan I want to see a complete team on offense and defense like we always had in NE. Furthermore we don't have the offensive firepower that Ben Johnson has at his disposal in Detroit.

 

[Family]

If you’re doing the role of interviewer well, you learn something from candidate. If you limit the candidates you talk to, you learn less.

I can’t believe they’re doing a non thorough search once again. Making the same mistakes repeatedly is inexcusable.

And I have no prob with either vrabel or bj, it’s the principle and logic

It's not that you are wrong, but this time it is different.

Last time there were zero interviews, and they hired a first time coach.

Are the Jets better off because they interviewed seemingly every candidate?

I don't have a problem with this. They interviewed the top candidates, and are hiring an experienced coach who has worked under many different coaching trees. Unlike Mayo who had zero outside exposure.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Yeah, I mean it’s all about development. If the backup linebackers played well, it suggests that he did a good job. If they didn’t, it’s worth questioning how he did.

This to me is one of if not the top priority for an incoming coach. They must be able to put together a staff that can develop players. You cannot rely on free agency, you have to be able to draft and develop players, and owners, management; and fans have to have the patience to allow that to happen. Other than the first round you are not drafting immediate starters, you are drafting prospects you can develop into good players. And this idea that any player who isn’t contributing significantly their first season is a bust is complete and utter ********. Take the players drafted after the first round and go through each team and you will find that the vast majority are not contributing significantly their rookie seasons. Does this mean they are all busts? According to many in this forum that’s exactly what it means, but the reality is that a good number of those players develop into good contributors, and the rest wash out. What makes the difference is a coaching staff that can develop them, and given that no one on the Patriots played better in 2024, and none of the rookies other than Maye developed this season, it was clear that Mayo and his staff were completely unable to teach and develop players. Belichick had his issues drafting, but I would argue that few if any coaching staff’s were better at turning players into good pro’s who could contribute to the team’s success. Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Green Bay, and possible a couple others were able to do the same, but overall most teams in the league fail at this, and that’s why they rarely win anything. Scarnecchia by himself probably developed more guys into players who could contribute than most coaching staffs do.

I didn’t like, and don’t like instability in coaching staffs and front office personnel, for a bunch of reasons,. I wanted Mayo to get a real chance to succeed, but the failure of he and his staff in every respect left Kraft with no choice but to fire him. Now, by all appearances, they are going to go with Vrabel, and I think he’s a good choice for them, but both the owners and fans alike need to have the patience to allow him to succeed or fail. He’s going to want to build his vision of a great football team. He has the most important piece of that in Maye, and they have both the money and draft capitol to address many of their needs this offseason, but they aren’t going to become a true contender overnight. People need to realize this, and not throw them overboard at the first signs of adversity. That said I think they are going to take a good step forward next season, and will be in the hunt for a wildcard in December. Whether they get one or not is a question to be answered then, but I don’t believe we will see a repeat of this season. I think we will see a team with more talent, a better work ethic, more intensity, and fewer mistakes. I do think Vrabel will put together a staff that can develop players, but that process still won’t be instantaneous, and some players will progress, while others fall by the wayside. Building a championship caliber team takes time, which is why there is no need to act out of desperation, as their future won’t live or die by next years results, but by putting together a much better team piece by piece over the next few years.

 

[Give Kraft A Hand]

I’m very optimistic about Vrabel. He has a lot of connections without Patriots ties. If we’re going to judge all retreads the same then you probably don’t want to look at the records of guys like Belichick Payton and Carroll.