The Official Vrabel vs Ben Johnson Discussion Thread

[Love The Drake]

They will get one of either Vrabel or Johnson. Thats isn't a debate imo. If you have Drake Maye in mind, and you listen to Johnsons' presentation vs Vrabels, then the choice is clear.

Zannis is correct. What happened in Tenn when his OCs got plucked to be HCs? Nothing good, the luck ran out and his offenses started to struggle. This is why if you have a legit high end QB, you pick the offensive minded HC. If you don't have a legit high end QB, you get a defensive minded coach because thats a better way to win games.

It's all pretty simple. The league has changed.

I agree with you.
What if McDaniels agreed to be OC and stay long term?
Does that make things even for you?
Cause likeminded I don’t want Musical chairs at OC for Drake.

 

[Love The Drake]

What I don’t want to see is rising coach Tommy Rees come as Oc stay for a year and bolt.

 

[ViperGTS]

I agree with you.
What if McDaniels agreed to be OC and stay long term?
Does that make things even for you?
Cause likeminded I don’t want Musical chairs at OC for Drake.

No it doesn't because all he needs is some owner to get in his ear about getting a third chance. Also, if Maye starts to really pop, it will start that pretty quickly.

Any OC that Maye works with imo will not be long for the job because he will, if they are actually any good, be not long for the job.

 

[PWRxWLF]

"real" interviews? What were the limits placed on the virtual interviews? At this point, many decisions are made without being face-to-face with decision-makers. The world is beyond looking into the eyes of those that we are evaluating.
=======
Vrabel has the leverage because he is a top candidate and Kraft cannot hire Johnson immediately.

The virtual interviews are limited to 3 hrs.

 

[Love The Drake]

R

The virtual interviews are limited to 3 hrs.

we filmed walkthrus and deflated balls I think we can turn a 3 hour interview to a 4 hour one lol jk.

 

[Huckleberry1]

I disapprove of the way Aaron Glenn handled the Patriots request to interview him.

 

[grux]

You are more likely right than not, but weird things happen all the time. Whenever I buy a new guitar (which I do more often than i should) I research the heck out of it, settle on a choice, then at the last minute choose something else entirely, maybe because my first choice has lost its novelty for me since I've been thinking about it so long. We'd like to think that a multi-billion-dollar enterprise would be immune to such silliness, but I kind of doubt that is so, given some of the weird choices that are made.

I agree. There are no guarantees that Vrabel or Johnson accepts the job after their interviews. I hope Kraft is willing to make some concessions in regards to the front office staff (If necessary) and is prepared to pay top dollar for a qualified coach.

 

[raduray]

I disapprove of the way Aaron Glenn handled the Patriots request to interview him.

I'm sure Aaron Glenn disapproves of the way the Patriots handled the request to have him interview.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

I disapprove of the way Aaron Glenn handled the Patriots request to interview him.

How so? Even though the NFL allows coaches to interview, it doesn't mean that those coaches are not busy preparing for the playoffs. The Pats treated him as an afterthought compared to the other 5 teams that he agreed to meet with. I don't blame him for not accepting the Pats request if he didn't feel like he had a legitimate chance for the job.

 

[Water Boy]

Zannis sums it up perfectly. I really, really, really like the idea of Vrabel.

I just like the Johnson idea better for most of the reasons he states here.

Good points here, but I just can't help but believe that there is still such a thing as the Patriot Way Mojo and it isn't gone forever with the departure of BB and TB. If anyone can tap into it its Vrabes.

 

[Love The Drake]

Good points here, but I just can't help but believe that there is still such a thing as the Patriot Way Mojo and it isn't gone forever with the departure of BB and TB. If anyone can tap into it its Vrabes.

That might be it if Kraft hires Johnson he has to give up any Patriots prior Nostalgia, vs Vrabel was here for some of that Dynasty.
Thats going to be tough for Robert to close the door on.

 

[Water Boy]

That might be it if Kraft hires Johnson he has to give up any Patriots prior Nostalgia, vs Vrabel was here for some of that Dynasty.
Thats going to be tough for Robert to close the door on.

As a fan its hard for me not to honor that and give Vrabel the chance to tap into, despite the huge upside BJ may have.

 

[Love The Drake]

As a fan its hard for me not to honor that and give Vrabel the chance to tap into, despite the huge upside BJ may have.

It’s a tough call.

 

[Zuma]

 

[raduray]

Good points here, but I just can't help but believe that there is still such a thing as the Patriot Way Mojo and it isn't gone forever with the departure of BB and TB. If anyone can tap into it its Vrabes.

The Patriot way is winning. You think other winning franchises don't have the same thing and just call it different? Discipline, perseverance, next man up, etc. Wouldn't you take the Chiefs way right now? Talent helps, of course, without which it's the No way.

 

[ViperGTS]

Good points here, but I just can't help but believe that there is still such a thing as the Patriot Way Mojo and it isn't gone forever with the departure of BB and TB. If anyone can tap into it its Vrabes.

That was all about BB and TB12. It was perfect storm of coach and QB that if you try to duplicate, you will miss. New blood, and a new direction.

Also winning titles or going to the AFCCG every year that you don't...thats how you get that type of moniker.

 

[A Defiant Goose]

Wouldn't you take the Chiefs way right now?

 

[A Defiant Goose]

The Chiefs may have 3 rings but their quarterback is a stunt double from the Golden Girls. Very not worth it

 

[imahobgoblin]

There's no safe bets when it comes to coaches. The success rate of new HC's vs retreads is virtually identical.

The only difference is Vrabel is a known quantity and Johnson isn't as a HC.

If Vrabel was a "safe bet" he wouldn't be on the market for a job. He's just the bet with an easier to evaluate experience category.

"The only difference is Vrabel is a known quantity and Johnson isn't as a HC???" Umm no. First, both men are the same quantity as one. Vrabel is a known commodity, but thats not the ONLY difference.

One major difference is personality. Vrabel is a bull who brings strong authority and demands respect (something that Mayo never had). Vrabel isn't looking for friends and buddies to play cards with after losses. He will not tolerate the soft, whiny, pathetic, and disjointed roster with Godchaux, the WR room, Tavai, etc... He won't allow players to mouth off to the media. Both Brady and McDaniels paint Vrabel as an a-hole and thats not necessarily a bad thing.

Johnson is a unique personality with a different approach. He is known as an incredible brain who can focus and analyze data in a way Vrabel cannot. We have no idea how he would handle this roster or locker room. He is more of a meek and mild leader, and that is not a criticism. He is just the antithesis of Vrabel.

Vrabel won 3 rings as a Patriot. He knows the facility and the culture. This is perhaps one of the biggest differences. Vrabel does not have to spend time getting to know the standard and expectation of building that winning atmosphere in New England. New England fans stink and the Krafts are hard to work for. Vrabel gets that and still wants to come here according to reports. That says something and is a difference from Johnson.

Vrabel is a defensive mind and Johnson is an offensive mind. Johnson has led one of the best offenses in football for the past three years. They ranked fifth in scoring in 2022, fifth in 2023, and first in 2024. Johnson would be a play calling head coach, which is also very different from Mayo and Vrabel. Johnson is viewed as the best offensive play caller in the league right now while Vrabel would have to nail his offensive coordinator.

One has to wonder how the players view the situation of playing under either man. Does a FA want to play under Vrabel or Johnson? There is a difference? Who has better contacts? Who has the draw to bring players in and fill the holes needed to put a team on the field. Mayo had a very tough time getting players to come here. No decent tackles or WR wanted to play here. How does Vrabel or Johnson change that? I don't know the answer, but there is a difference.

Vrabel's last winning season was 2021. He was part of an organization in decline. He had a falling out with his owner and could not reconcile with the front office.

Please no to Shane Bowen.
The Giants' pass defense was ranked sixth in the league, allowing 194.7 passing yards per game.
However, the Giants' run defense was ranked 29th in the league, allowing 141.7 rushing yards per game.
The Giants also ranked 21st in points allowed per game, with an average of 24.4 points.

 

[KDPPatsfan85]