Why no turnovers on D?

[TheRainMaker]

They can “do their jobs” all they want, but they don’t have any talent on defense.

They also have Mayo and Covington running the D which is a major downgrade to what they had.

 

[upstater1]

They can “do their jobs” all they want, but they don’t have any talent on defense.

They also have Mayo and Covington running the D which is a major downgrade to what they had.

So then explain why they looked better last year...

The players are telling you there are guys no following Mayo's plans. In the press.

And they look worse than last year even though the talent level is the same.

 

[PatsFan2]

So then explain why they looked better last year...

The players are telling you there are guys no following Mayo's plans. In the press.

And they look worse than last year even though the talent level is the same.

It's not the same very far far from it.

 

[TheRainMaker]

So then explain why they looked better last year...

The players are telling you there are guys no following Mayo's plans. In the press.

And they look worse than last year even though the talent level is the same.

Belichicks. These players are scheme dependent because talent wise they aren’t good. In fact, we’ve seen it many times when they’ve played competent offenses. Now they can’t defend any offense. Very few posters including myself knew the defense was going to drop off with Bill gone.

 

[upstater1]

It's not the same very far far from it.

They lost Barmore and Bentley but added Gonzalez and Marcus Jones. Heck even Jon Jones missed 5 games last year. These are all your cornerbacks

 

[upstater1]

Belichicks. These players are scheme dependent because talent wise they aren’t good. In fact, we’ve seen it many times when they’ve played competent offenses. Now they can’t defend any offense. Very few posters including myself knew the defense was going to drop off with Bill gone.

Mayo and Covington and Pellegrino were on last year's coaching staff. They know the scheme

 

[TheRainMaker]

Mayo and Covington and Pellegrino were on last year's coaching staff. They know the scheme

But they are not Belichick.

 

[upstater1]

But they are not Belichick.

So, let me put it this way: Brian Flores is capable of coaching players in a similar scheme.

 

[TheRainMaker]

So, let me put it this way: Brian Flores is capable of coaching players in a similar scheme.

Matt Patricia made the Lions defense worse in Detroit.

Just because you know the scheme, doesn't mean you can duplicate your predecessor. We are seeing what happens when an inferior coach starts running a lack of talent on defense.

BB>Flores

 

[upstater1]

Matt Patricia made the Lions defense worse in Detroit.

Just because you know the scheme, doesn't mean you can duplicate your predecessor. We are seeing what happens when an inferior coach starts running a lack of talent on defense.

BB>Flores

I wasn't arguing that all Belichick's disciples make things better.

I was saying that Flores evidently CAN work with this system and make it successful.

 

[TheRainMaker]

I wasn't arguing that all Belichick's disciples make things better.

I was saying that Flores evidently CAN work with this system and make it successful.

I get it, but eventually even the best DC's are overmatched when their talent level is mediocre. Bill had a hard time against any competent offense because of the lack of talent on D.

Spagnolo struggled for years after his success with the Giants. Now he's made a resurgence in KC because the talent is there.

Flores is doing fine, but he won't be able to sustain it.

 

[upstater1]

I get it, but eventually even the best DC's are overmatched when their talent level is mediocre. Bill had a hard time against any competent offense because of the lack of talent on D.

Spagnolo struggled for years after his success with the Giants. Now he's made a resurgence in KC because the talent is there.

Flores is doing fine, but he won't be able to sustain it.

Look at our 2018-2019 defense. It destroyed one of the top 11 NFL offenses in history.

Who was the superstar on that defense other than Gilmore?

 

[TheRainMaker]

Look at our 2018-2019 defense. It destroyed one of the top 11 NFL offenses in history.

Who was the superstar on that defense other than Gilmore?

They played a team in Rams bringing knives to a gun fight. They were not the same offense we saw in the regular season that was led by Todd Gurley. That made things way easier for Bill.

Defense would've gotten exposed if they didn't have Tom, Gronk, Edelman and the running game on the other side of the ball. The defense was fairly mediocre in 2018 before switching their philosophy on offense to become run heavy shortening the games.

 

[upstater1]

They played a team in Rams bringing knives to a gun fight. They were not the same offense we saw in the regular season that was led by Todd Gurley. That made things way easier for Bill.

Defense would've gotten exposed if they didn't have Tom, Gronk, Edelman and the running game on the other side of the ball. The defense was fairly mediocre in 2018 before switching their philosophy on offense to become run heavy shortening the games.

I have no idea how you can say this about a team that totally shut down the 11th ranked offense in NFL history. And to give the offense credit? In that game?

Gurley played the first 14 games and rushed for 4.2 yds.

Without Gurley, they scored 31 points against Arizona and 48 points against the 49ers. Offensive explosions without Gurley.

Then they scored 30 against Dallas and 26 against the Saints in the playoffs.

 

[PatsFan2]

The rumblings from players accusing teammates of "freelancing" and "taking theirs" is getting louder.

That might be a big reason they aren't making plays.

When BB had players doing their own thing he reduced their snaps or traded them.

Let's see what Mayo does.

Teams Trade for decent players not Jags. There's a reason why Wolf has been so quiet nobody is calling or picking up.

 

[TheRainMaker]

I have no idea how you can say this about a team that totally shut down the 11th ranked offense in NFL history. And to give the offense credit? In that game?

Gurley played the first 14 games and rushed for 4.2 yds.

Without Gurley, they scored 31 points against Arizona and 48 points against the 49ers. Offensive explosions without Gurley.

Then they scored 30 against Dallas and 26 against the Saints in the playoffs.

No. He ran for 4.9 yards per carry, had 21 TD's and was 3rd in rushing in only 14 games. He was also first team all pro. He was also the OPOTY in 2017. You are severely minimizing Gurley's presence.

 

[Real fan 02]

Would really help this team... Playing from a short field vs being pinned deep on nearly every drive...

Right now I believe we are -1 in turnover differential... Just 3 ints, 4 forced fumbles... So what's with the non-opportunistic defense?
Is it a lack of pass rush / pressure? Not being able to force QB into making risky throws?

Is it using the zone defense as lot? Don't know the percentage breakdown... If you do, let me know in case I'm wr-wr-wr incorrect ... Is it the defensive scheme? The cushions the dbs are giving up? Letting the wrs climb the route tree before engaging the wideouts? Seems to me it's a fairly talented bunch of Reubens in the backfield... We should have more than 3 ints at this point...

We do know the run defense is broken, so was kinda surprised at the four ff... Not expecting too much here... Barmore being out hurts the pass rush... But it's like white is mia lately... Can losing Bentley really have made that much of a difference? He is a good steady player, productive as a tackling machine... but is he really that much of a game changer? We really need to concentrate on stopping the run first...

Anyone have any answers? Seems like the Defense has the talent to turn things around but there's always one or two issues that are grinding the d down... We should be performing better than we are at this point of the year...

Great points! When we had the defensive units of 2010, 11 & 12 for instance. We created plentiful of TOs becuase teams threw it against us becuase our run d was sound. Now teams can do pretty much anything against us. I thought for sure gonzo would have more than 1INTs, the Jones boys or even Dugger. It's just not happening this season.. to me it seems like covington has slowed down on blitzing so much wich I believe is personnel related.. there's no help coming.. the team seems content on rolling with who they have. My guess is blitz and try to create more pressure and just live with the result. They are getting burned anyway so why not all out blitz. It seems the only other resort IMO.

 

[Real fan 02]

Teams Trade for decent players not Jags. There's a reason why Wolf has been so quiet nobody is calling or picking up.

There are plenty of impact players at DE and DT wolf can trade for.. it's a mystery to me as well.. we have no beef up the middle.. what happened to pharms? He was a pretty solid run player.. if the team can just stop the run for at least one game it would make a big difference.

 

[Sciz]

There are plenty of impact players at DE and DT wolf can trade for.. it's a mystery to me as well.. we have no beef up the middle.. what happened to pharms? He was a pretty solid run player.. if the team can just stop the run for at least one game it would make a big difference.

Three weeks ago, Roy jumped from the practice squad straight to #3 DT ahead of Johnson and Pharms. Pharms was the #4 those first two games, with Johnson inactive for one and active but did not play in the other. They swapped yesterday, Pharms inactive and Johnson the #4.

Could have been a less publicized equivalent to the McMillan/Elliss LB swap, or it also could have just been game plan related. Johnson is 20 pounds heavier, 2¾ inches taller, and has 2¾ inch longer arms. Maybe they just thought they needed an extra two-gapper at the back end of the roster.

 

[Pape]

There are plenty of impact players at DE and DT wolf can trade for.. it's a mystery to me as well.. we have no beef up the middle.. what happened to pharms? He was a pretty solid run player.. if the team can just stop the run for at least one game it would make a big difference.

Pharms was inactive... I don't know why