Let's Compare NE and PITT

[mgteich]

Let's compare NE and PIT. One is a contender for the playoffs and the other project to winning fewer than 50% of their games.
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SIMILARITIES
1. Both have top defenses.
2. Both have horrible OL's.
3. Both are starting a backup stop-gap QB.
4. Both have poor offenses.
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PRIMARY DIFFERENCES
5. Their backup quality QB can occasionally read defenses and see when WR's are open (not all that often, but often enough)
6. Their backup quality QB can escape the rush of opposing defenses. Five times in their last game, their QB should/could have been sacked. The QB avoided those sacks.
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TO BE VERY CLEAR
The QBs are the difference between what we should expect from the two teams (in the first two games and in the future).

 

[Rob0729]

I would rather be the Patriots. The Steelers are in a doom loop of being forever good enough to contend for the playoffs, but never good enough to get out of the first round of the playoffs if they get in,

And I don't know if I agree with your take. I don't think Justin Fields is any good. I think the Steelers' defense has played better than the Patriots. The Patriots gave away both TDs from the Seahawks on Sunday. One because of miscommunication in the secondary. The other because of a horrible and unnecessary PI in the end zone. That is the biggest difference between the two teams. If they played smart football, they might be 2-0 right now.

The Steelers' offense has been awful. They haven't scored more than 18 points in either of their two first games. Fields has nearly turned over the ball twice with fumbles that the Steelers were lucky to recover.

The Steelers' defense on the other hand has given up 6 and 10 points thus far in the game. That is the difference. If the Pats had the Steelers' defense with Brissett, the Pats would be 2-0 right now.

But this the problem with the Steelers. Their defense is always good enough to get them 10-11 wins, but not much more. That means they will never get a legitimate starting QB unless they get lucky and someone falls into the 20s where they are drafting.

 

[Ring 6]

Let's compare NE and PIT. One is a contender for the playoffs and the other project to winning fewer than 50% of their games.
=========
SIMILARITIES
1. Both have top defenses.
2. Both have horrible OL's.
3. Both are starting a backup stop-gap QB.
4. Both have poor offenses.
==========
PRIMARY DIFFERENCES
5. Their backup quality QB can occasionally read defenses and see when WR's are open (not all that often, but often enough)
6. Their backup quality QB can escape the rush of opposing defenses. Five times in their last game, their QB should/could have been sacked. The QB avoided those sacks.
=========
TO BE VERY CLEAR
The QBs are the difference between what we should expect from the two teams (in the first two games and in the future).

Seriously?
You break an entire football team down to 4 things and say both teams are identical in those 4 so they are the same team?

Do you actually observe how football games are played and won? Above average teams beat below average teams by making an extra play or 2.
TJ Watt may be the best defensive player in the NFL. How many plays does he make that we have no one who can, that will determine outcomes? Pickens is a freak who can take the top off a defense. How many 1 score games does that change?
Would Pittsburgh’s defense have gotten a stop in OT or you think they are both “top” so it makes no difference?
And coaching? Does that matter?
Very strange post from someone who spends a lot of time talking about football.

 

[Ring 6]

I would rather be the Patriots. The Steelers are in a doom loop of being forever good enough to contend for the playoffs, but never good enough to get out of the first round of the playoffs if they get in,

And I don't know if I agree with your take. I don't think Justin Smith is any good. I think the Steelers' defense has played better than the Patriots. The Patriots gave away both TDs from the Seahawks on Sunday. One because of miscommunication in the secondary. The other because of a horrible and unnecessary PI in the end zone. That is the biggest difference between the two teams. If they played smart football, they might be 2-0 right now.

The Steelers' offense has been awful. They haven't scored more than 18 points in either of their two first games. Fields has nearly turned over the ball twice with fumbles that the Steelers were lucky to recover.

The Steelers' defense on the other hand has given up 6 and 10 points thus far in the game. That is the difference. If the Pats had the Steelers' defense with Brissett, the Pats would be 2-0 right now.

But this the problem with the Steelers. Their defense is always good enough to get them 10-11 wins, but not much more. That means they will never get a legitimate starting QB unless they get lucky and someone falls into the 20s where they are drafting.

The Steelers are many fewer pieces away from a sb than the patriots. Getting to pick 5-12 in the draft instead of 17-25 doesn’t change that.

 

[Rob0729]

The Steelers are many fewer pieces away from a sb than the patriots. Getting to pick 5-12 in the draft instead of 17-25 doesn’t change that.

The Steelers are at least a QB away from getting to the Super Bowl. Getting the 5-12 pick instead of the 17-25 pick does absolutely make a difference. You are highly unlikely to get a franchise QB in the second half the first round.

In today’s NFL, upwards to five QBs could already been drafted by pick 17. Is the sixth best QB in a draft going to be a franchise QB? Highly unlikely. Any QB with franchise potential these days are drafted in the top 10 picks.

If Drake Maye lives up to expectations, the Patriots are far closer to winning a Super Bowl than the Steelers. Not even close.

The Steelers are missing the most important piece to any Super Bowl caliber team. That makes their chances of winning the Super Bowl not all that better than Carolina’s chances. The Steelers are far, far more likely to get into the playoffs, but again they will be a quick exit.

 

[Ring 6]

The Steelers are at least a QB away from getting to the Super Bowl. Getting the 5-12 pick instead of the 17-25 pick does absolutely make a difference. You are highly unlikely to get a franchise QB in the second half the first round.

In today’s NFL, upwards to five QBs could already been drafted by pick 17. Is the sixth best QB in a draft going to be a franchise QB? Highly unlikely. Any QB with franchise potential these days are drafted in the top 10 picks.

If Drake Maye lives up to expectations, the Patriots are far closer to winning a Super Bowl than the Steelers. Not even close.

The Steelers are missing the most important piece to any Super Bowl caliber team. That makes their chances of winning the Super Bowl not all that better than Carolina’s chances. The Steelers are far, far more likely to get into the playoffs, but again they will be a quick exit.

Having a better roster and picking 10 picks later is better than trying to close the gap by picking 10 picks earlier. The vast majority of QBs picked in the first round don’t win SBs. Having a crappy team do you can make a draft pick that is more likely than not to not be the answer isn’t a good plan.
Football teams win not QBs

 

[archstanton543]

Let's not and say we did.

 

[Rob0729]

Having a better roster and picking 10 picks later is better than trying to close the gap by picking 10 picks earlier. The vast majority of QBs picked in the first round don’t win SBs. Having a crappy team do you can make a draft pick that is more likely than not to not be the answer isn’t a good plan.
Football teams win not QBs

Take Patrick Mahomes off the 2023 Chiefs and replace him with Justin Fields and they may not have made the playoffs never mind not winning the Super Bowl. Hell, replace Mahomes with an average QB and they don't win the Super Bowl last year.

Or look how the Texans went from a cellar dweller to a playoff team overnight by drafting a QB. Now they are a legitimate Super Bowl contender.

Drafting a QB in the top 15 or even top 3 doesn't guarantee you a franchise QB, but it is exponentially more likely for it happen than drafting one 17-25.

This is a QB driven league. The QB position is the most important position and the second most important position isn't remotely close.

 

[mike_usagisan]

6. Their backup quality QB can escape the rush of opposing defenses. Five times in their last game, their QB should/could have been sacked. The QB avoided those sacks.

Give him credit where it's due--Brissett has been great at moving in the pocket to avoid sacks. There's been a number of time in the last two games where I was sure Brissett was going down and he just slipped away from the defenders.

 

[Rob0729]

Give him credit where it's due--Brissett has been great at moving in the pocket to avoid sacks. There's been a number of time in the last two games where I was sure Brissett was going down and he just slipped away from the defenders.

Yeah, Brissett has a good job avoiding the rush. It is a weird point to make anyway since both Fields and Brissett have 4 sacks and I think Brissett has had more pressures.

 

[Ring 6]

Take Patrick Mahomes off the 2023 Chiefs and replace him with Justin Fields and they may not have made the playoffs never mind not winning the Super Bowl. Hell, replace Mahomes with an average QB and they don't win the Super Bowl last year.

Or look how the Texans went from a cellar dweller to a playoff team overnight by drafting a QB. Now they are a legitimate Super Bowl contender.

Drafting a QB in the top 15 or even top 3 doesn't guarantee you a franchise QB, but it is exponentially more likely for it happen than drafting one 17-25.

This is a QB driven league. The QB position is the most important position and the second most important position isn't remotely close.

Patrick Mahomes wasn’t a top 5 pick and fields was a late first.
Yes, a team with a good qb is all things equal better than a team with a bad qb.
That does nothing to prove a 5-12 team is closer to winning than a 10-7 team.

And 52 players combined are more important than the qb.

 

[Pape]

Not mentioned yet...

One advantage Pittsburgh has over New England right now, and probably for the next few seasons, is coaching.

Tomlin is a good coach, for the most part.

Mayo? Jury is out right now...

 

[Rob0729]

Patrick Mahomes wasn’t a top 5 pick and fields was a late first.
Yes, a team with a good qb is all things equal better than a team with a bad qb.
That does nothing to prove a 5-12 team is closer to winning than a 10-7 team.

And 52 players combined are more important than the qb.

Mahomes was drafted 10th overall. Not a late first round.

Name the last team that won the Super Bowl with an average QB. In the last 20 years, you have two teams - the Ravens with Flacco (which had a top defense in history) and the Eagles with Nick Foles (who replaced Carson Wentz at towards the end of the season and Foles played like an elite QB during that time).

 

[Rob0729]

BTW, the Pats are 1-1 and the Steelers are 2-0. We aren't talking that the Pats are 0-7 and the Steelers are 7-0. The Steelers are one game better and the Patriots could have easily have won last Sunday if not for stupid mistakes.

Neither have played top competition and neither have looked impressive on offense. In fact, the Pats had the best offensive performance of the two teams in week one.

 

[mgteich]

BTW, the Pats are 1-1 and the Steelers are 2-0. We aren't talking that the Pats are 0-7 and the Steelers are 7-0. The Steelers are one game better and the Patriots could have easily have won last Sunday if not for stupid mistakes.

Neither have played top competition and neither have looked impressive on offense. In fact, the Pats had the best offensive performance of the two teams in week one.

I would note that there has NEVER been a poorer start for WR's than we have had.

 

[VrabelJr]

I don't understand this whole "stuck in mediocrity" thing and it sounds like something fans make up to get the dopamine of having a high draft pick. The Chiefs were a floating around .500 to just above one-and-done playoff team for many years and emerged out of that with 3 Super Bowl titles.

Whatever consensus is, it's usually wrong. KC broke out of the muck by trading up for Mahomes, a move that was widely criticized at the time. If you want different results you need to do different things. I'd expect Pats fans to know that already.

 

[Ring 6]

Mahomes was drafted 10th overall. Not a late first round.

Name the last team that won the Super Bowl with an average QB. In the last 20 years, you have two teams - the Ravens with Flacco (which had a top defense in history) and the Eagles with Nick Foles (who replaced Carson Wentz at towards the end of the season and Foles played like an elite QB during that time).

Where did I say he was drafted late first round?

Average Qb and Qb not drafted in the top 5 are very different things.
7 of the last 8 and 10 of the last 12 were won by QBs not drafted in the top 5.

 

[Rob0729]

Where did I say he was drafted late first round?

Average Qb and Qb not drafted in the top 5 are very different things.
7 of the last 8 and 10 of the last 12 were won by QBs not drafted in the top 5.

Sorry you said Fields was late first round which is wrong. Fields was drafted 11th. One pick later in his draft than where Mahomes was picked in his draft.

And that goes to my point. Fields was the fourth QB off the board in his draft with the 11th pick and even at the time he was projected originally to be a late first round or even second round pick. If you are at pick 22, you ain't getting a first round quality pick unless you give up the farm. You probably ain't going to get a second round quality one either because they will be overdrafted in the top half of the draft.

And I never said you had to be in the top 5, but you most likely have to draft in the top half of the draft.

 

[Real fan 02]

I would rather be the Patriots. The Steelers are in a doom loop of being forever good enough to contend for the playoffs, but never good enough to get out of the first round of the playoffs if they get in,

And I don't know if I agree with your take. I don't think Justin Smith is any good. I think the Steelers' defense has played better than the Patriots. The Patriots gave away both TDs from the Seahawks on Sunday. One because of miscommunication in the secondary. The other because of a horrible and unnecessary PI in the end zone. That is the biggest difference between the two teams. If they played smart football, they might be 2-0 right now.

The Steelers' offense has been awful. They haven't scored more than 18 points in either of their two first games. Fields has nearly turned over the ball twice with fumbles that the Steelers were lucky to recover.

The Steelers' defense on the other hand has given up 6 and 10 points thus far in the game. That is the difference. If the Pats had the Steelers' defense with Brissett, the Pats would be 2-0 right now.

But this the problem with the Steelers. Their defense is always good enough to get them 10-11 wins, but not much more. That means they will never get a legitimate starting QB unless they get lucky and someone falls into the 20s where they are drafting.

Good points. I will say what makes the Patriots defense more impressive to me is Barmore the best player on D isn't there and they are still a top unit. If the Steelers lose watt they are a far different defense. So we've got some injuries on D so I'm expecting us to give up plays here and there. Both teams are so eirrliy similar.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Pats won 6 Super bowls, had 10 trips in 20 years and were Pittsburgh's Daddy.

The only time Pittsburgh made it out of the AFC was because their prayers were answered in 2005, 2008 and 2010 when NE got knocked out and Brady suffered an injury.

Nobody should care about Pittsburgh.