OT: Belichick to the Ravens???

[h0c2000]

Who knew MattyP's coaching has led to this season success in Detroit?

 

[upstater1]

One other thing. Any team interested in bringing Bill in should look at his record without Brady.

How can a Patriots fan possibly underrate the guy like this?

1960? You seriously sat through Ron Erhardt, Ron Meyer, Rod Rust, **** McPherson, Pete Carroll and you can't tell when you have the greatest coach of all-time?

 

[upstater1]

Who knew MattyP's coaching has led to this season success in Detroit?

Don't know who the guy on the left is, BUT I don't like it when people deliberately misinterpret what somebody said. Belichick complimented the Lions in general, and then specifically said they have a good offensive line, and that's the fruit of Matt Patricia's labor.

He wasn't giving Patricia credit for the entire Lions team.

He was talking about the OL

 

[1960Pats]

How can a Patriots fan possibly underrate the guy like this?

1960? You seriously sat through Ron Erhardt, Ron Meyer, Rod Rust, **** McPherson, Pete Carroll and you can't tell when you have the greatest coach of all-time?

I think NYFL fans in general overrate coaching. Coaching isn't rocket science.

As for Bill without Brady, when compared to other HCs without their top QB Bill is way down the list. Eight losing seasons out of eleven saw to that.

If anyone underrated anyone it was Bill and Bob for letting Brady go.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I think NYFL fans in general overrate coaching. Coaching isn't rocket science.

As for Bill without Brady, when compared to other HCs without their top QB Bill is way down the list. Eight losing seasons out of eleven saw to that.

If anyone underrated anyone it was Bill and Bob for letting Brady go.

Dude, it might be time to move on. Still talking about Brady leaving 5 years later might be a sign you need to talk it out with your therapist.

 

[upstater1]

I think NYFL fans in general overrate coaching. Coaching isn't rocket science.

As for Bill without Brady, when compared to other HCs without their top QB Bill is way down the list. Eight losing seasons out of eleven saw to that.

If anyone underrated anyone it was Bill and Bob for letting Brady go.

Apparently, I was right. You didn't know what you were watching.

Please do a comparison of other coaches without their top QB (which is a bizarre way to do it anyway when we're talking about 20 years WITH the QB).

Who are the top coaches?

How did Lombardi do without Starr? How did Walsh do without Montana? Heck, how did Shula do WITH Marino? You see?

No one lasted as long as Belichick except Shula, and Shula didn't win those Super Bowls WITH two of the greatest QBs in history.

What your analysis totally ignores is what happens when you rebuild a club. In Cleveland, they got a bunch of new players, switched QBs, and that made all the difference. Dumping Kosar for Testaverde got them a playoff win over Parcells. In New England, same thing: he had to rebuild the team when he got here. Brady entering allowed them to have huge success. But let's not pretend that was a QB performance clinic. It wasn't. Those wins came on the strength of the coaching. Heck, those teams were so solidly built that even Matt Cassell got 11 wins. 2020 is the same deal, they were rebuilding. Obviously in 2020, Brady coming back would've accomplished nothing. Do you not remember 2019?

 

[1960Pats]

Dude, it might be time to move on. Still talking about Brady leaving 5 years later might be a sign you need to talk it out with your therapist.

I'm sure you know some. They're working wonders with you.

It's funny how touchy you are. Maybe you should put me on ignore if my posts make you cry so much.

 

[1960Pats]

Apparently, I was right. You didn't know what you were watching.

Please do a comparison of other coaches without their top QB (which is a bizarre way to do it anyway when we're talking about 20 years WITH the QB).

Who are the top coaches?

How did Lombardi do without Starr? How did Walsh do without Montana? Heck, how did Shula do WITH Marino? You see?

No one lasted as long as Belichick except Shula, and Shula didn't win those Super Bowls WITH two of the greatest QBs in history.

What your analysis totally ignores is what happens when you rebuild a club. In Cleveland, they got a bunch of new players, switched QBs, and that made all the difference. Dumping Kosar for Testaverde got them a playoff win over Parcells. In New England, same thing: he had to rebuild the team when he got here. Brady entering allowed them to have huge success. But let's not pretend that was a QB performance clinic. It wasn't. Those wins came on the strength of the coaching. Heck, those teams were so solidly built that even Matt Cassell got 11 wins. 2020 is the same deal, they were rebuilding. Obviously in 2020, Brady coming back would've accomplished nothing. Do you not remember 2019?

Every team's strength comes from the players, not coaching techniques that are as old as the hills. Average coaches win SBs but not with average players.

There were quite a few coaches who never had anything but a top QB. Lombardi, Walsh and Seifert come to mind but there were others. When a poster here, @signbabybrady , wondered how any HC would do without his top QB I decided to do some research.

There were tough choices on who was a top QB and who wasn't. I decided that I'd take out Unitas and Marino from Shula's numbers and Lamar Jackson's away from Harbaugh's, though I think Joe Flacco was better.

I also took out Mahomes and McNabb from Reid and Big Ben from Tomlin and quite a few others, like Dungy without Manning, Carroll w/o Wilson, Noll w/o Bradshaw.

I ended up with 15 HC's and below is the list. I sorted them by regular season winning % and included the playoff % and the percentage of losing seasons.

			Non		Regular			Playoffs		Losing
Yrs	Coach		QB Yrs	Won	Lost	%	Won	Lost	%	Seas	%
33	Don	Shula	5	48	22	0.686	10	5	0.667	0	0
16	Joe	Gibbs	7	73	38	0.658	10	3	0.769	1	0.143
14	Mike	Ditka	7	70	41	0.631	2	3	0.4	2	0.286
15	Bill	Cowher	11	104	71	0.594	10	8	0.556	3	0.273
17	John	Harbaugh	11	104	72	0.591	10	6	0.625	1	0.091
25	Andy	Reid	8	75	53	0.586	2	4	0.333	1	0.125
17	Mike	Tomlin	5	48	34	0.585	0	3	0	0	0
13	Tony	Dungy	6	54	42	0.563	2	4	0.333	1	0.167
17	Marvin	Lewis	9	84	72	0.538	0	6	0	0	7
8	Doug	Pederson	7	60	53	0.531	4	2	0.667	2	0.286
17	Hank	Stram	3	21	19	0.525	7	3	0.7	1	0.333
19	Bill	Parcells	11	88	87	0.503	2	2	0.5	4	0.364
18	Pete	Carroll	8	65	65	0.500	1	2	0.333	3	0.375
23	Chuck	Noll	9	70	73	0.490	4	3	0.571	4	0.444
29	Bill	Belichick	11	81	98	0.453	1	2	0.333	8	0.73

 

[upstater1]

Every team's strength comes from the players, not coaching techniques that are as old as the hills. Average coaches win SBs but not with average players.

There were quite a few coaches who never had anything but a top QB. Lombardi, Walsh and Seifert come to mind but there were others. When a poster here, @signbabybrady , wondered how any HC would do without his top QB I decided to do some research.

There were tough choices on who was a top QB and who wasn't. I decided that I'd take out Unitas and Marino from Shula's numbers and Lamar Jackson's away from Harbaugh's, though I think Joe Flacco was better.

I also took out Mahomes and McNabb from Reid and Big Ben from Tomlin and quite a few others, like Dungy without Manning, Carroll w/o Wilson, Noll w/o Bradshaw.

I ended up with 15 HC's and below is the list. I sorted them by regular season winning % and included the playoff % and the percentage of losing seasons.

			Non		Regular			Playoffs		Losing
Yrs	Coach		QB Yrs	Won	Lost	%	Won	Lost	%	Seas	%
33	Don	Shula	5	48	22	0.686	10	5	0.667	0	0
16	Joe	Gibbs	7	73	38	0.658	10	3	0.769	1	0.143
14	Mike	Ditka	7	70	41	0.631	2	3	0.4	2	0.286
15	Bill	Cowher	11	104	71	0.594	10	8	0.556	3	0.273
17	John	Harbaugh	11	104	72	0.591	10	6	0.625	1	0.091
25	Andy	Reid	8	75	53	0.586	2	4	0.333	1	0.125
17	Mike	Tomlin	5	48	34	0.585	0	3	0	0	0
13	Tony	Dungy	6	54	42	0.563	2	4	0.333	1	0.167
17	Marvin	Lewis	9	84	72	0.538	0	6	0	0	7
8	Doug	Pederson	7	60	53	0.531	4	2	0.667	2	0.286
17	Hank	Stram	3	21	19	0.525	7	3	0.7	1	0.333
19	Bill	Parcells	11	88	87	0.503	2	2	0.5	4	0.364
18	Pete	Carroll	8	65	65	0.500	1	2	0.333	3	0.375
23	Chuck	Noll	9	70	73	0.490	4	3	0.571	4	0.444
29	Bill	Belichick	11	81	98	0.453	1	2	0.333	8	0.73

I'll say it again since it didn't get through the first time.

Belichick had longevity with Brady and that longevity coincided with Belichick's entire tenure with the Patriots except for the rebuild.

All you've done here is show me what Belichick did over 3 rebuild periods.

That's a form of useless analysis.

Cleveland, once they went to Testaverde, was on an upward trajectory. He came to New England and immediately won a Super Bowl. And even during the 2008-2010 rebuild, they were pretty good, even with Cassel. 2020 was the start of another.

Let me give you an example of how bad this list is. Harbaugh has a great record. He won 1 playoff game in 10 years. That would've gotten him fired by Kraft.

 

[Steve102]

Don't know who the guy on the left is, BUT I don't like it when people deliberately misinterpret what somebody said. Belichick complimented the Lions in general, and then specifically said they have a good offensive line, and that's the fruit of Matt Patricia's labor.

He wasn't giving Patricia credit for the entire Lions team.

He was talking about the OL

They can't get clicks with honest thumbnails.

 

[XLIX]

I believe Belichick would love to HC the NYG. 33 years ago he was the victim of horrible timing by taking the Browns job a couple months before Parcells suddenly retired (for the first time). The Giants job would no doubt have been his, and who knows how history plays out from then.....

The problem with the Giants job is they are looking at a fresh rebuild. A new, first round QB is a probability (Ward? Ewers? Dart?) and I don't know if that's what Belichick wants, or if the Giants would want Belichick for a fresh start.

 

[1960Pats]

There is no bad blood it’s an entirely different ownership.

It's the Browns fans that hate him and I don't think he cares much for Cleveland. His idea of punishment was sending players there.

It's too bad that Bill couldn't have convinced Ozzie Newsome to join him here. He was a top GM.

 

[1960Pats]

I believe Belichick would love to HC the NYG. 33 years ago he was the victim of horrible timing by taking the Browns job a couple months before Parcells suddenly retired (for the first time). The Giants job would no doubt have been his, and who knows how history plays out from then.....

The problem with the Giants job is they are looking at a fresh rebuild. A new, first round QB is a probability (Ward? Ewers? Dart?) and I don't know if that's what Belichick wants, or if the Giants would want Belichick for a fresh start.

Parcells strength was picking his spots.

Whatever job Bill takes he'll need a GM to pick the players. He seems to have lost his edge there.

 

[1960Pats]

Who knew MattyP's coaching has led to this season success in Detroit?

Here's a look at Bill's coaching tree...

 

[Clonamery]

Here's a look at Bill's coaching tree...

Therapy might help you. You can point out exactly on the little dolly where BB hurt you.

 

[AQPE]

I believe Belichick would love to HC the NYG. 33 years ago he was the victim of horrible timing by taking the Browns job a couple months before Parcells suddenly retired (for the first time). The Giants job would no doubt have been his, and who knows how history plays out from then.....

The problem with the Giants job is they are looking at a fresh rebuild. A new, first round QB is a probability (Ward? Ewers? Dart?) and I don't know if that's what Belichick wants, or if the Giants would want Belichick for a fresh start.

Mike Francesa used to tell the story about all this. According to him, BB went to Cleveland in part because he didn’t think he would be getting the Giants HC job due to George Young. Young ran the football operation - he had authority over Bill Parcells - and didn’t like BB personally. Wil McDonough reported at the time that Parcells quit that year because he was tired of being overruled by Young. McDonough also reported at that time that 4 years earlier, after the Giants first Super Bowl, Parcells was ready to jump ship to Tampa Bay but the Giants had him under contract and wouldn’t release him from that.

I think someone will hire BB next winter, none of the teams I’ve seen mentioned - Cowboys, Eagles, Giants, Jaguars - would surprise me. I’ll wish him well if that’s what happens and will have the champagne ready when he passes Shula. I hope he is using this year to seriously reconsider the approach he took to building and maintaining a successful offense in the 2020s.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Media already calling for Bill to go to Dallas. Jerry missed a golden opportunity this season and hopefully he corrects it after this season.

 

[XLIX]

Bill Belichick sighting at Piscataway, New Jersey, tonight. For all his associations with Rutgers, he (obviously) was there with his son, the Washington DC.

(Did I just say the Washington DC...??)