Mayo Made The Right Call, The Only Call - Brissett over Maye

[mgteich]

Why rob him of the experience he gains in the other 5 games?

because the OL will be much worse (game 1-4)
and because Game 17 is not a place to play starters

 

[cmasspatsfan]

He needs to learn to play under pressure. If he’s worried about getting hurt then he’s the wrong guy.

I can promise you no team has ever said let’s not play out qb this year because we don’t like our OL. This is madden playing, fantasy football loving thinking. Winning football coaches say they need to fix the problems and coach around them not hide from them.
Of course there are reasons to sit a rookie QB but none apply here.

I don't think he's worried about getting hurt, the coaches feel he won't learn properly if he's running for his life. If it was up to him, he'd play.

 

[lancerman]

Tom Brady circa a week or so ago: "I think it's just a tragedy that we're forcing these rookies to play early".

Andy you might want to smarten the GOAT up with your football IQ

 

[KCSVEN]

Tom Brady circa a week or so ago: "I think it's just a tragedy that we're forcing these rookies to play early".

Andy you might want to smarten the GOAT up with your football IQ

Peyton Manning said it was invaluable learning experience playing the first year.
Brady had never developed a QB, Brady only knows what he went thru, the analysis done using actual QB’s and historically detailed analyses disagrees with Brady and agrees with Manning.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

Transparency is overrated. It just gets you in trouble (perhaps gets you fired) and the media loves to hold your feet to the fire when you start yapping too much.

In any walk of life you need to know your audience if you are going to share real time updates on very fluid situations. The 2024 Patriots can be compared to the unsanitary and disgusting processes employed by the sausage industry which was exposed by the book The Jungle by Upton Sinclair. Mayo is actually doing everyone a disservice by creating transparency into the inner workings of a team that is in flux on all levels. He just creates frustration by giving the media fodder and makes the fanbase queasy.

 

[lancerman]

Peyton Manning said it was invaluable learning experience playing the first year.
Brady had never developed a QB, Brady only knows what he went thru, the analysis done using actual QB’s and historically detailed analyses disagrees with Brady and agrees with Manning.

The analysis really doesn't. You look at the top 10 QB's ever and the majority sat a year (Brady, Mahomes, Brees, Rodgers, Montana). Then guys like Marino sat 6 games, Elway didn't start right away and was coming in as relief, then the officially made Deberg the starter) and Elway didn't become the formal starter until an injury mid season). Steve Young sat his first years in Tampa and San Fran. Farve did not start his rookie year (granted, weird situation because he ended up going to another team right after).

That's 8 of the top 10 most people would have. Especially if you go by the 80's on.

If you want to go earlier, Otto Graham's coach held him out out a few games to start the season because he was concerned and wanted him more ready to start.

Yes Peyton Manning was the exception of high end elite QB's who started from day one. Guess what? He led the league in INT's that year largely due to the pressure he had from a weak offense. Guess what? Compared to all his contemporaries he had a huge interception problem the rest of his career and it cost his team many playoff games and was a big reason he was considered a choker.


So yeah, if you want a top end super elite QB, they generally sit for part of or all of their first year. I guess we don't want that.

 

[Ring 6]

I don't think he's worried about getting hurt, the coaches feel he won't learn properly if he's running for his life. If it was up to him, he'd play.

That’s not the argument I was responding to

 

[Ring 6]

because the OL will be much worse (game 1-4)
and because Game 17 is not a place to play starters

Wait you want to bench him for the last game of the season too?

How do you know the ol will get better? What if there are injuries?

 

[lancerman]

Wait you want to bench him for the last game of the season too?

How do you know the ol will get better? What if there are injuries?

His point is that the offensive line will be most volatile early on and by the time they MIGHT show improvement, the season is already lost and whatever risk was lessened is undermined by the lack of potential reward. Week 17 is theoretically the most cohesive and improved the line should be. But at that point it's pretty much a meaningless game.

 

[Ring 6]

His point is that the offensive line will be most volatile early on and by the time they MIGHT show improvement, the season is already lost and whatever risk was lessened is undermined by the lack of potential reward. Week 17 is theoretically the most cohesive and improved the line should be. But at that point it's pretty much a meaningless game.

I’ll let him speak for himself, not sure why you think that’s your job.

So in your argument you don’t want your qb of the future to get experience in the NFL because the OL MIGHT get better. If they don’t you just skip a year of his career?
You seem to be saying you think they believe they are committing for a playoff spot with brissett but Maye can’t play week 17 either because they are playing for nothing. So if they are 1-9 do you think he should be shut down?

No football person thinks like this.

 

[lancerman]

I’ll let him speak for himself, not sure why you think that’s your job.

So in your argument you don’t want your qb of the future to get experience in the NFL because the OL MIGHT get better. If they don’t you just skip a year of his career?
You seem to be saying you think they believe they are committing for a playoff spot with brissett but Maye can’t play week 17 either because they are playing for nothing. So if they are 1-9 do you think he should be shut down?

No football person thinks like this.

You really need to learn to follow what people are saying. Has nothing to do with fighting for a playoff spot. If the concern is that the line is to volatile and risky for an inexperienced QB who is more likely to get hurt, then that risk only potentially lessons and makes starting more viable at a point where that QB will not make a difference on the season.

Anyways you should stop pretending to be an anuthority on what a "football person thinks". Unless you think Tom Brady, Bill Parcells and Bill Belichick aren't football people because they've all discussed the benefits of sitting QB's and letting them develop.

 

[Ring 6]

You really need to learn to follow what people are saying. Has nothing to do with fighting for a playoff spot. If the concern is that the line is to volatile and risky for an inexperienced QB who is more likely to get hurt, then that risk only potentially lessons and makes starting more viable at a point where that QB will not make a difference on the season.

Anyways you should stop pretending to be an anuthority on what a "football person thinks". Unless you think Tom Brady, Bill Parcells and Bill Belichick aren't football people because they've all discussed the benefits of sitting QB's and letting them develop.

You really need to learn the English language then I suppose. If it has nothing to do with a playoff spot why would you say if after week 4 “the season is already lost”

You just said it again “will not make a difference on the season” are you telling me that winning 3 games instead of 4 is the “risk” you refer to?

People who have played and been around the game know that no football person would ever say “well the offensive line might be bad so we need to put our franchise QBs career on hold because he might get hurt”. Football people would understand the value of getting the experience and figure out how on protect him better.
Brady, Parcells, Belichick never said let’s sit our qb because of the ol.

 

[lancerman]

You really need to learn the English language then I suppose. If it has nothing to do with a playoff spot why would you say if after week 4 “the season is already lost”

You just said it again “will not make a difference on the season” are you telling me that winning 3 games instead of 4 is the “risk” you refer to?

People who have played and been around the game know that no football person would ever say “well the offensive line might be bad so we need to put our franchise QBs career on hold because he might get hurt”. Football people would understand the value of getting the experience and figure out how on protect him better.
Brady, Parcells, Belichick never said let’s sit our qb because of the ol.

My English isn't the problem. You lack comprehension skills and like to twist and strawman other people's arguments as you have done for years on here when you get pushback on your opinions not being taken as gospel.

Also your little appeal to authority is tired. You have shown zero evidence that you are a "football person" or have a clue what a football person would say. It's just you trying to give yourself some semblance of credibility.

Now I'm trying to discuss this maturely with you at face value. If you can't be an adult and not revert back to the same tired act, then we can end this.

 

[Ring 6]

My English isn't the problem. You lack comprehension skills and like to twist and strawman other people's arguments as you have done for years on here when you get pushback on your opinions not being taken as gospel.

Also your little appeal to authority is tired. You have shown zero evidence that you are a "football person" or have a clue what a football person would say. It's just you trying to give yourself some semblance of credibility.

Now I'm trying to discuss this maturely with you at face value. If you can't be an adult and not revert back to the same tired act, then we can end this.

It has nothing to do with my opinion it has to do with your statement. When you say he can play when the season is lost, that has meaning. When I point that out and you backtrack then blame me you show your colors.
I have never, one single time on this board said “my opinions are gospel”. I state my opinions AFTER considering all factors. So when someone objects because of one of those factors I already considered I explain why I disagree.
Just as I am doing here.

You have every right to think that football coaches believe their job is to decide their OL sucks and bench their best and future QB because if it and I will tell you I disagree because no football coaches have that mentally.

Where things go off the rails is you try to defend THAT argument with “Brady says there is value in sitting”. That’s not the argument, never has been, you know that and you pivot away from the real argument because you know you really can’t support yours. And I know too because I considered it before I ever posted in the first place.

Funny that I am posting about the topic and you are posting about the posted and you pull that last paragraph out of your ass.
By all means if you cannot discuss the topic and need to grandstand to readers by attacking the messenger we shouldn’t ever interact. That’s up to you.

 

[lancerman]

It has nothing to do with my opinion it has to do with your statement. When you say he can play when the season is lost, that has meaning. When I point that out and you backtrack then blame me you show your colors.
I have never, one single time on this board said “my opinions are gospel”. I state my opinions AFTER considering all factors. So when someone objects because of one of those factors I already considered I explain why I disagree.
Just as I am doing here.

You have every right to think that football coaches believe their job is to decide their OL sucks and bench their best and future QB because if it and I will tell you I disagree because no football coaches have that mentally.

Where things go off the rails is you try to defend THAT argument with “Brady says there is value in sitting”. That’s not the argument, never has been, you know that and you pivot away from the real argument because you know you really can’t support yours. And I know too because I considered it before I ever posted in the first place.

Funny that I am posting about the topic and you are posting about the posted and you pull that last paragraph out of your ass.
By all means if you cannot discuss the topic and need to grandstand to readers by attacking the messenger we shouldn’t ever interact. That’s up to you.

You've been given plenty of reasons why sitting could be beneficial to Maye, trying to dismiss them out of hand and random appeals to authority about what "football people think" isn't a good discussion.

Like please, you've been given plenty of players that sat and succeeded to the highest level and credited sitting to their development and just said that the result wouldn't change if they started from the beginning based off nothing but feelings.

Please don't play victim and pretend you are some good faith actor who only wants discussion and is being unfairly treated. You are the one making appeals to authority, you are the one implying that people who disagree with you aren't football people, you are the one who refuses to even entertain any counter viewpoints and just dismisses them by saying "well you can't know that for sure and if the opposite happened the results wouldn't change". Shocking that most of your big crusades here all end in the same way.

It's sad because you were doing good for awhile and actually behaving. Seriously reflect and learn something for once. This whole schtick of is transparent and tiring.

 

[BobDigital]

I am okay sitting Maye early. Which may be surprising to some. As I always say play the rookie, don't hinder his reps and growth, ect ect... And I do believe it and stand by it. It will do Maye no good to sit. Even a year on a bad team is better than a year sitting. And you can't worry about a guy getting hurt at the detriment of his development (within reason). Everyone in the NFL can get hurt at any time.

That being said this OL is very shaky and the way the preseason has gone, particularly that last game has made me want to put the breaks on playing him instantly. Let me be clear. I want Maye to play the majority of the season. And not as in he plays 9 to Brisset's 8. I want it to be a strong majority. But 17 games is a lot. And I am fine giving the OL a few weeks to get their act together. They can't possibly be as bad as we saw.

These are all NFL caliber players and that display was beneath them. Even if they are the worst line in the NFL, they need to be better than that. So I say let's take a month to figure out how to fix the protection. Figure out what to do with the line. If we need to leave extra help in to block. Let them get use to playing together and get some more live reps. See more NFL caliber moves and get into the swing of things. A 4 game extended preseason if you will. But from week 5 on better be Maye time. I don't want him sitting any longer and he needs to play at this level to get use to it. I don't want his rookie year wasted. 4 games won't effect his growth much if at all. But anymore and I start worrying about if he will see enough reps to have a good jump on year 2.

 

[Ring 6]

You've been given plenty of reasons why sitting could be beneficial to Maye, trying to dismiss them out of hand and random appeals to authority about what "football people think" isn't a good discussion.

Like please, you've been given plenty of players that sat and succeeded to the highest level and credited sitting to their development and just said that the result wouldn't change if they started from the beginning based off nothing but feelings.

Please don't play victim and pretend you are some good faith actor who only wants discussion and is being unfairly treated. You are the one making appeals to authority, you are the one implying that people who disagree with you aren't football people, you are the one who refuses to even entertain any counter viewpoints and just dismisses them by saying "well you can't know that for sure and if the opposite happened the results wouldn't change". Shocking that most of your big crusades here all end in the same way.

It's sad because you were doing good for awhile and actually behaving. Seriously reflect and learn something for once. This whole schtick of is transparent and tiring.

I certainly do not dismiss them OUT OF HAND. I disagree with them. And I give the reasons why.
You are the one who started the “appeal to authority”
I’m shocked you think “no football person would decide to bench their top qb because they think their might be bad” is an appeal to authority, it was meant to be a common sense grounding statement. I can believe anyone would dispute it.

Wrong, I agree they benefited WHILE sitting and responded they would benefit MORE by playing. Everything they learn while sitting they learn while playing as well and gain experience. Sitting is a correlation not a cause.

I’m not playing a victim at all. I’m stating my position. YOU make the appeal to authority. I happen to have spent a lot of time around football, around coaches, etc and I will 100% tell you they do not think like that. If their OL is a problem they obsess on fixing it or winning in spite of it, not changing their qb plans. If that insults you I’m sorry, but it’s the truth.

I can tell you I have never stated or even thought the attitude you out in quotes. I can also tell you that I attempt to respond to every post directed at me and I attempt to respond every point within as I am doing here. So it is very disingenuous for you to say I don’t “entertain counterpoints” in fact my reputation is to argue them to death or “dismiss” them because I always address every single one.

As to your last paragraph, you really need to grow up.

 

[Force Zero Boomer]

I think it's very early to really determine that. Mayo's been with the organization for 16 years. He knows mayo inside and out. So that also factors into his decisions.

The way as Curran reported is mayo doesn't report to wolf. He reports directly to ownership. Wolf & mayo work collaborative with wolf having final say on the roster. If by next season with Drake the starter and things still went bad than maybe you could entertain the conversation.

However it's far to early for RK to pull the plug.

If you’re a LOTR fan, Wolf reminds me of Grima Wormtongue. He even looks like I imagined. Mayo might not report to him, but he’s whispering in Kraft’s ear. And Kraft is not a noble man, so the seed might be easier to plant.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

Jimmy is terrible and also suspended first two games lol

Jimmy G. has a great arm. Extremely accurate, quick release, and reads defenses well. But there is the durability concerns. The Patriots need a QB that can move around and avoid pressure. JB does it a bit, and Maye does it better. No worries; Maye will be starting sooner than we expect.

 

[Real fan 02]

If you’re a LOTR fan, Wolf reminds me of Grima Wormtongue. He even looks like I imagined. Mayo might not report to him, but he’s whispering in Kraft’s ear. And Kraft is not a noble man, so the seed might be easier to plant.

I believe Krafts more beholden to mayo. Remember Mayo's made $$$$ as a player.. his long-term career isn't financially dependent on football. He's done plenty well for himself in business.

What I'm trying to say it would be easier for him to step away than it would for say wolf.