Alleged Character Issues in Patriots Draft

[Clonamery]

Guess we know why Dungy showed up. Man of unimpeachable character and morality shows up and voila, saints in uniform. Hallelujah.

 

[Real fan 02]

For the last several years there were those that complained that the Patriots only drafted 'choir boys' while passing on superior talent.

Now today Bedard and his sources are complaining that the Patriots did the reverse.

And it's just a coincidence that this happens heading into the slowest news-desert portion of the football year.

Absolutely spot on. The NFL news cycle is slow until training camp really. What I do like is that the organization hired Slater to assist mayo and also be a person for the players to go to. That will be a tremendous asset for guys whenever they are dealing with things.

 

[Brotherblues]

Who was in Baker's entourage? Slater and Dungy? Jack Easterby? Jack Jones? Antonio Brown?

 

[rkarp1]

I have oft questioned the Pats internal affairs people and how well they did their due diligence.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

How many times have you seen someone with character or drive issues in college figure it out in the NFL? I’m sure there have been some, but for every one you name I bet there have been 10 or more that don’t change. Manziel, Leaf, JRussell, Gordon, Hernandez, Phillips, etc. The safest assumption is that they aren’t going to change, and you can’t fix it. BB went a step further and preferred team captains, because being entrusted with leadership says a lot.

If this is the direction they have chosen, they are going to get burned and Mayo/Wolf will be out the door. I doubt Kraft will put up with it.

I agree that the track record for players with verifiable issues is not good. Questions about work ethic, or being caught up with the wrong crowd can be addressed. Barmore is an example of a player with baggage at draft time that has evolved to be a solid professional. To be fair we don't really know how many players were drafted despite character questions that were not as well documented.

I remember that drafting captains was a big focus coming out of the Adalius Thomas teams when the team reloaded with Hightower and others. That said, BB's draft history tells a different story with the team drafting many players that had questionable pasts. For the most part the Patriot Way, which was a combination of the coaching staff and locker room leaders, kept things in check. Mayo/Wolf are starting from scratch so they are taking extra risks if they are bringing in a bunch of talented trouble makers to turn things around.

 

[stcjones]

if bedard thinks bakers the only kid in this draft that's been around guns he's dense. seems like a lot of bedards league sources focus on the patriots when they need to be focusing on their own team.

Well said….

 

[stcjones]

Then again, there's the Antonio Brown end of the spectrum.

Well in fairness ….there are bad boys and then…there are whacked out mental patients!!

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

There is a big difference between drunken vandalism and premeditated murder. I don’t really have a point…I just felt the need to say that.

I come to Patsfans to learn insightful things like the above.

 

[Zuma]

I come to Patsfans to learn insightful things like the above.

Referring to character issue with Jules and Hernandez. Night and day.

 

[Force Zero Boomer]

Like Parcells used to say, I'm not coaching a team of choir boys, as long s these guys commit to football, who cares.

What does it mean to commit to football? It means the team comes first, not clubbing with your entourage. It means football comes first, not cruising around the 'hood with firearms looking for trouble. It means not using drugs, because they damage your body, ruin your mind, and become your obsession. It means putting winning first, not your ego. It means doing your job, and even holding your teammates accountable. It means not creating distractions off the field, taking away the focus from winning.

While Parcells certainly wasn't demanding purity (like the ideal choir boy), do you think he'd disagree with anything I said above? Coach, are you okay with your players gangbanging? Clubbing with armed entourages in places where trouble is likely? Are you okay with running a dogfighting ring? Are you okay with cocaine, meth or oxycodone use? Are you okay with having a diva on your team who will constantly challenge your authority? Are you good with players making disparaging comments about the coaches or their play time or their contracts? Are you okay with a player with little drive to improve, or one that often takes plays off?

"Commit to football" is a proxy for character.

 

[Clonamery]

I come to Patsfans to learn insightful things like the above.

Well, you learn something new everyday, maybe, so you never know who will read that and the light bulb comes on. Cheers!

 

[Patriot Missile]

The easy thing to do is just let it play out and hope for the best. Worrying about character issues at this point is a ridiculous waste of time. A very fair percentage of this board mature a lot between the age of 20-25. Some for the better, some for the worse. It’s just the way it goes.

 

[BTTA]

Most people are not fully formed when they are 21, especially if they did not have proper guidance as children. Even if the team only drafts players who are perceived to be high character, management needs to hold all players to the same standard. Push players who have maturity issues in the right direction, cut loose anyone who is not willing to be accountable to the rest of the team.

Yeah, this is where the hope lies - brains that are still in serious developmental mode. Set up an impenetrable wall around the kids, fill their lives with structure and intentional positive influences, and greatly increase the chance that they'll be able to rise above their past stupidity. And I say this as someone who did a lot of stupid stuff before turning 25.

The Baker story is the only one that gives me pause. They'll need to help him reduce the influence of his Dad, which is a tall order. The kid will have to figure that one out, and it'll take some courage on his part to do so.

 

[PatsFan2]

So Bedard has some claims from League sources about potential character issues among some of the Patriots' draft choices.

Nothing on Mayes, and not much on Polk: "Another league executive said there was a red flag with Polk but he would not offer specifics. Other teams said this was a surprise to them, they had nothing."

Wallace a bit of question on drive.

Baker significant issues - fights, guns, very problematic father. "One league executive estimated that Baker was off the board for half the league." Arrived at OTAs with an entourage.

Milton - "heavy maintenance, partier."

Bell - "He was a borderline (non-fit/off-the-board) for us. The questions or concerns were personality fit: diva, selfish, party habits. Emotional maturity."

So all-in-all sounds like a much riskier group than in past years - they clearly had a looser cut-off than the old regime, where Belichick allegedly only wanted to coach non-problematic guys. Perhaps why we could never draft a WR given they seem to be more inclined to divadom.

Bedard: Another perspective on the Patriots' draft picks, including more character concerns than years past

Here are the thoughts of an AFC senior personnel executive, including some of the concerns on Javon Baker, Joe Milton and Jaheim Bell straight from their pre-draft research on the players.

www.bostonsportsjournal.com

Well we can't Draft all the N'Keal Harry's of the world high character guys who can't play. I love the shift from the BB formula.

 

[PatsFan2]

We’ve heard through multiple sources that Bill purposely would avoid a more talented player who may have character issues in favor of a less talented player that was a gentlemen. However, there were rare exceptions.

The reality is, if you want to field a good competitive team, you’re going to have to roll the dice on some knuckleheads who are talented.

And I bet BB wonders why he doesn't have a job.

 

[PatsFan2]

Like Parcells used to say, I'm not coaching a team of choir boys, as long s these guys commit to football, who cares.

The Tuna had the greatest choir boy of them all LT.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

What does it mean to commit to football? It means the team comes first, not clubbing with your entourage. It means football comes first, not cruising around the 'hood with firearms looking for trouble. It means not using drugs, because they damage your body, ruin your mind, and become your obsession. It means putting winning first, not your ego. It means doing your job, and even holding your teammates accountable. It means not creating distractions off the field, taking away the focus from winning.

While Parcells certainly wasn't demanding purity (like the ideal choir boy), do you think he'd disagree with anything I said above? Coach, are you okay with your players gangbanging? Clubbing with armed entourages in places where trouble is likely? Are you okay with running a dogfighting ring? Are you okay with cocaine, meth or oxycodone use? Are you okay with having a diva on your team who will constantly challenge your authority? Are you good with players making disparaging comments about the coaches or their play time or their contracts? Are you okay with a player with little drive to improve, or one that often takes plays off?

"Commit to football" is a proxy for character.

If they don't commit, they're gone, probably why a lot of talented players don't make it. Now we didn't hear anything as bad as you listed but who knows really, the bad one's will get weeded out.

 

[NCPATSFAN1971]

What does it mean to commit to football? It means the team comes first, not clubbing with your entourage. It means football comes first, not cruising around the 'hood with firearms looking for trouble. It means not using drugs, because they damage your body, ruin your mind, and become your obsession. It means putting winning first, not your ego. It means doing your job, and even holding your teammates accountable. It means not creating distractions off the field, taking away the focus from winning.

While Parcells certainly wasn't demanding purity (like the ideal choir boy), do you think he'd disagree with anything I said above? Coach, are you okay with your players gangbanging? Clubbing with armed entourages in places where trouble is likely? Are you okay with running a dogfighting ring? Are you okay with cocaine, meth or oxycodone use? Are you okay with having a diva on your team who will constantly challenge your authority? Are you good with players making disparaging comments about the coaches or their play time or their contracts? Are you okay with a player with little drive to improve, or one that often takes plays off?

"Commit to football" is a proxy for character.

Speaking of Parcells, I didn't like the way he left the Patriots but I'm glad he was able to help put the Patriots on the map (so to speak). Parcells drafted one of my all time favorite defensive players Willie McGinest #4 in the 1994 Draft who I believe had a gang ties prior to attending USC. Unfortunately for Willie, he went back to his gang-like behavior long after he retired from football and a had a public brawl that cost him his career on the NFL TV Network. Parcells also coached Lawrence Taylor who had a well known addiction to cocaine during his playing career.

I think the point here is that we just don't know if or when a player that is drafted into the NFL is going to commit a serious offense. And there have been players with no previous record of bad behavior whatsoever commit serious legal offenses including assault or fraud etc.

IMO, players who become over the top like Antonio Brown, and Adrian Hernandez are the exception and not the rule. I also think that for the most part, the rest of the players are no different than most of us who have positive human attributes as well as human weakness that we deal with everyday.

 

[Force Zero Boomer]

I think the point here is that we just don't know if or when a player that is drafted into the NFL is going to commit a serious offense. And there have been players with no previous record of bad behavior whatsoever commit serious legal offenses including assault or fraud etc.

That's like saying it's okay to draft Ryan Leaf because we don't know for sure if he'll continue showing the same characteristics he had in college. He's just immature. It's absurd.

Would you rather have your daughter stay in a room for one hour with 100 criminals or 100 men with clean records? Sure, something could go wrong in either, but if you had to make a choice, you will go with the safer bet.

IMO, players who become over the top like Antonio Brown, and Adrian Hernandez are the exception and not the rule. I also think that for the most part, the rest of the players are no different than most of us who have positive human attributes as well as human weakness that we deal with everyday.

It's not just criminality: it's self-centeredness and lack of drive to improve. Look at JaMarcus Russell and Manziel. Ignore the red flags and you get burned. Maybe you take a flier or a guy like that in the late rounds.

Sure, we all have positives and negatives. We're being evaluated constantly, at home and at work. And the same consequences result if character is ignored, minimized or rationalized away. You have to decide if you can live with the flaws as you see them today, or decide to cut and run should things not improve.

 

[SlowGettingUp]

become over the top like Antonio Brown, and Adrian Hernandez

CTE likely played a part in both those cases.

Baker is high profile, high noise for his draft position. As Mayo commented, fine provided he backs it up on the field. I think he's more talented than Polk, and Baker's subtle route-running shows he's put some time and effort into his play, not just relying on his athleticism. Let's see how he adapts to the change from being a star in college to back of the pack (for now) in the NFL in a very crowded WR room.