What if we *Don't* hire a GM?

[MrBigglesWorth]

They should consider bringing back the fullback

 

[VrabelJr]

Mafi is an odd name to include…he sucks. You also omitted Ryland and Barringer

Mafi is transitioning from DL to OL. He was supposed to be a project but injuries thrust him into action.

 

[upstater1]

They rebuilt the interior of the oline but they're still not good.. I feel strange is a bust. Two tackles in the 2nd and 3rd are advisable considering how tough it is to find one and the market value on them. Sign owenu or put him back at guard. He's a must retain

Strange was rated highly when he didn't get hurt. Andrews held his own the entire day last week. Onwenu was 2nd team All-Pro last year. Sow as a rookie had a hell of a season.

These are 4 good picks.

Blame our horrendous QB who invites blitzes because he cowers in front of the rush and can't throw to the boundaries.

 

[TommyD4207]

Here's a big concern for the new crew. You're an agent with a client who wants to maximize his $$$. When you sat across from Belichick and he told you the parameters of the deal, you wouldn't even dream of trying to bluff him.

How many holdouts have we had over the years?

People wouldn't even try holdouts (except for minor guys like Lawrence Guy who wanted a fraction over the minimum).

Who has that authority now?

You're telling me people aren't going to try to test Jonathan or whoever is sitting on the opposite side of the table?

This comes at a time when we have FAs in Onwenu, Dugger, Uche and Anfernee, and impending FAs in Barmore, Rham and a few others.

Watch them re-sign Uche now.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

Strange was rated highly when he didn't get hurt. Andrews held his own the entire day last week. Onwenu was 2nd team All-Pro last year. Sow as a rookie had a hell of a season.

These are 4 good picks.

Blame our horrendous QB who invites blitzes because he cowers in front of the rush and can't throw to the boundaries.

How come they struggled running the ball

 

[upstater1]

How come they struggled running the ball

How did they run it when they were all healthy and came together with Strange out there? (Also, Klemm left and they went away from Zone Blocking to Scar's sheme). And also Rham wasn't hurt?:

Carries / Yards / Yards Per Carry / TDs / First Downs

12/3	LACL	32	148	4.6	0	7
11/26	@NYGL	31	147	4.7	1	10
11/12	INDL	36	167	4.6	0	11
11/5	WASL	19	107	5.6	1	4

In some of these games, we had huge gainers by our RBs wiped out (Zeke's 40+ run wiped for a bogus hold).

This is them with Strange in the lineup healthy, Onwenu at RT, Sow taking over from Mafi at RT, Rham before he got hurt, Klemm in a hospital bed.

 

[State]

Considering that Mayo has no head coaching experience and very little as the (defacto) DC, this is not the time to be skimping on the role of GM/Director of Player Personnel. Up until now they had their opinions, but BB had the final say in everything. Mayo is going to have his hands full learning and adjusting to his new role as HC. I would prefer that he focus on that, and lean very heavily on others to handle the personnel evaluations and decisions.

Whether it is Groh/Wolf or one of those mentioned in the GM? thread (such as Alec Halaby, Joe Horitz, Adam Peters), I just think it is too much too soon to for Mayo to have the last word on draft and free agency decisions. The Patriots need competent, experienced decision making in this role. A different perspective (ie, an outsider) would be very helpful, in my opinion.

Yeah, bring in a guy with proven, senior experience but who isn’t the top dog. Bring him to the Patriots as GM. Helps if there’s a Patriots connection, but nothing closely linking him to Belichick

That ship has sailed.
So who could it be?
one name that comes to mind is a guy with the Lions. Ray Agnew. Sounds familiar.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Yeah, bring in a guy with proven, senior experience but who isn’t the top dog. Bring him to the Patriots as GM. Helps if there’s a Patriots connection, but nothing closely linking him to Belichick

That ship has sailed.
So who could it be?
one name that comes to mind is a guy with the Lions. Ray Agnew. Sounds familiar.

Ray Agnew is in the DET front office?

 

[RobertWeathers]

Watch them re-sign Uche now.

Sure for an incentive -laden one

 

[Ross12]

The last time the New England Patriots had a General Manager was 1991...

Victor Kiam was the owner, and the role and title was filled by Sam Jankovich...

When James Orthwein took over in 1992, the GM position was axed... Sam Jankovich transitioned into a CEO role, and the ownership group ran like a board of directors of a Company... Jankovich lasted for one season in that role before it was eliminated... The role of the General Manager / CEO transitioned from football operations / personnel to a split between the front office and personnel... The breakdown: Chairman of the Board: James Orthwein ; Vice Chairman of the Board: Michael O'Hallaron ; EVP of Football Operations: Patrick Forte ; VP: Bucko Kilroy ; Director of College Scouting – Charley Armey ; Director of Pro Scouting – Bobby Grier

When Robert Kraft bought the team, the new front office was incorporated as such:
President and Chief Executive Officer: Robert Kraft ; VP & Owner's Representative: Jonathan "Stamps" Kraft ; VP of Business Operations: Andy Wasynczuk ; VP of Football Operations: Patrick Forte ; Director of College Scouting: Charley Armey ; Director of Pro Scouting: Bobby Grier ; Scouting Consultant – Bucko Kilroy; The same basic front office structure is in place now... there are a few more people, but generally its run the same...

When Parcells was here, Bobby Grier was really the go to Personnel guy that the team was looking to... and we all know what happened... This team took a beating because of losing Parcells over a draft pick, creating turmoil that followed them all the way to and through the Super Bowl... The Carroll years were run in the same way that the Parcells years were in terms of the front office structure... When BB took over in 2000, the front office changed in that Pioli was installed as the Assistant Director of Player Personnel... While the role functions similarly the the Directors of the early & late 1990's, it avoids the chaos (RKK even kind of references this in his Q&A today) of having multiple voices all talking at once...

Is it crazy to think that the Patriots will not be hiring a General Manager? That they might be looking for the Head Coach to oversee the Personnel department like it has been run for 24 years under Belichick & Co. ?


?

You ended up being prescient on this one, @Pape

 

[festy1986]

Are we all gonna act like Bill wasn't the GM because he didn't hold a GM title?

Be serious

Not hiring a GM is just another step toward Kraft outing him self as someone who doesn't want to pay for results.

 

[Ghost_Rush02]

Read a article that stated they arent gonna hire a GM. They gonna w Matt Groh and Eliot Wolfe.

Report: With Bill Belichick gone, Patriots not expected to hire new GM

The Patriots reportedly aren't expected to hire a new GM, after parting ways with Bill Belichick earlier in the week.

www.yahoo.com

 

[TommyD4207]

Sure for an incentive -laden one

No no, that's not the Kraft as defacto-GM way. Skimp on FA's, overpay for your own guys. Todd Rucci says hi from his mansion. So does Max Lane.

 

[Pape]

How come they struggled running the ball

because teams were not afraid of the passing game & could tee off on the backs... we were forced into much more 3rd & longs, and as a result the number of conversions has dropped because we have not been successful on 1st or 2nd down in a general sense...

In addition, we had no true third down back in the vein of James White... without that true dual threat, its easier to defend... the conversion numbers bear that out... its been a steady decline, where we only converted 30% of a paltry 67 third down attempts... compare that to 2021, when Mac was halfway decent - 91 third down attempt, with a 43.5% conversion rate...

This isn't the whole reason "why" - there are other factors that are the direct cause, but it does help create the outline of "why" it was happening.

 

[Pape]

Are we all gonna act like Bill wasn't the GM because he didn't hold a GM title?

Be serious

Not hiring a GM is just another step toward Kraft outing him self as someone who doesn't want to pay for results.

This team hasn't had a GM since 1991. So it's not like having a front office without a GM title holder should be a surprise at this point.

 

[RobertWeathers]

This team hasn't had a GM since 1991. So it's not like having a front office without a GM title holder should be a surprise at this point.

Well, depends on what you define GM to be. After Tuna left BIG picked the players at Waczynchuk ran the cap

 

[Pape]

Well, depends on what you define GM to be. After Tuna left BIG picked the players at Waczynchuk ran the cap

How to define the GM role... there are a lot of nuance to the inner workings of a front office - best explanation I can give is an example - when I think of a GM, i think of Ozzie Newsome... He ran the personnel department and the draft no questions asked.

Bobby Grier was moved into the front office when Parcells took over... so he was ever-present thru the Parcells years, and always loomed large in the Personnel department while he was there (maybe because he was with the team for so long, really since the early 80's)... It was always a collaborative, until it wasn't and Grier flexed with Terry Glenn...

I think we will retain that collaborative approach to personnel vs having a true general manager

I could be way off base on this w.a.g. (wild ass guess) but i don't think so based on everything thats been said in the last week.

 

[RobertWeathers]

How to define the GM role... there are a lot of nuance to the inner workings of a front office - best explanation I can give is an example - when I think of a GM, i think of Ozzie Newsome... He ran the personnel department and the draft no questions asked.

Bobby Grier was moved into the front office when Parcells took over... so he was ever-present thru the Parcells years, and always loomed large in the Personnel department while he was there (maybe because he was with the team for so long, really since the early 80's)... It was always a collaborative, until it wasn't and Grier flexed with Terry Glenn...

I think we will retain that collaborative approach to personnel vs having a true general manager

I could be way off base on this w.a.g. (wild ass guess) but i don't think so based on everything thats been said in the last week.

I don't think you are off base. If the Krafts want collaboration thats fine. However there absolutely needs to be governance and alignment between the HC and "GM". There needs to be alignment on everything. Priority, player profile, philosophy, grading system, everything. There also needs to be a clearly-defined demarcation between who is responsible for what. That all needs to be sorted out ASAP.

It was in one of the books about BB where Pioli and BB had a disagreement about a player who was in the draft. They each had valid points for/against. It was an animated debate. In the end they both agreed to not take the player. It wasn't worth it fracturing the relationship over it plus there were others who graded similar in the position.

Lets hope Mayo and the GM/leader of personnel have that same relationship.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

People don't give enough credit to the rebuild. 2 years ago our defense was old and slow. It needed investment and a total revamp. And in the middle of all that, we rebuilt the entirety of our interior offensive line with 4 new players. 1 running back and 1 wide receiver.

Need a lot of work there an at LT, but...

We also invested in a QB. Who busted.

Strange was rated highly when he didn't get hurt. Andrews held his own the entire day last week. Onwenu was 2nd team All-Pro last year. Sow as a rookie had a hell of a season.

These are 4 good picks.

Blame our horrendous QB who invites blitzes because he cowers in front of the rush and can't throw to the boundaries.

The reality is that most rookies require a few years to develop into good NFL players. Having rookies step right into the starting lineup is usually a case of a poor team. The core of young, developing players in the pipeline is likely to be more impactful next year than anyone picked in the upcoming draft.

 

[ScottishPatriots]

I can't believe Groh is going to hang around some of these recent horrific draft picks are down to him, there's no one using any common sense can tell me that Thornton wasn't his pick, that's not the type of guy Bill would ever draft we spent 10 years asking for a deep threat and Bill obviously never deemed it important.