Why has Bill the GM been so poor the past decade?

[archstanton543]

Spot on! Is why I've been saying... I don't see juju or Parker here next season. I see KB back who's contract is up, and recovering coming back. So KB, Douglas and some game changers.

Juju is signed for another two seasons. They just gave Parker and extension last season. They're going nowhere.

Although, with all cap money the Pats have, I supposed they could absorb the cost of trading or cutting them.

 

[Real fan 02]

If Bill isn’t back much less likely that KB will be then

Yeah could be that. Kb is just one of those guys you need for a young QB. Brady had plenty of those guys most notably Troy to help him along.

 

[Real fan 02]

Juju is signed for another two seasons. They just gave Parker and extension last season. They're going nowhere.

Although, with all cap money the Pats have, I supposed they could absorb the cost of trading or cutting them.

I don't necessarily believe that. The contracts those guys have are front loaded with up front money. As we've seen plenty of times of the years they can easily get out those contracts. I don't think both will be here. The most likely player out is Parker. Brandon Lloyd had a weird 2 yr deal like that years ago. And he was far more productive than juju and Parker combined In his lone season.

 

[VJCPatriot]

I've been saying it for years. But now it's become painfully obvious. BB is a terrible GM. He has no clue how to 'shop for groceries' or how to build a good balanced team. He has gone unchecked for too long and now the entire team suffers because of his bad decisions.

In a year where it was obvious that the offense needed help, BB went all in on the defense instead and ignored the glaring needs at tackle and WR. He didn't draft his first WR until round 6. He didn't draft his first OL until round 4 and it wasn't a tackle, surprise it was another guard! And he wasted a 4th round pick plus another pick to trade UP for Chad "67%" Ryland a kicker of all positions!

Let's be real. When we look back the Patriots dynasty teams were built on the backs of great draft picks. In the early 2000's we got studs like Brady, Seymour, Light, Wilfork, Branch. In the early 2010's we got more foundation pieces like McCourty, Solder, Hightower, Chandler Jones, and Gronkowski.

What was the difference between those years and now? We had personnel men who had a bigger say in the draft room than BB. Early 2000's was the fruit of Scott Pioloi's decisions. In the 2010's it was Nick Caserio. In the past decade, it has been BB and a bunch of gutless yesmen and the last two years it was a very inexperienced Matt Groh.

We can see what a huge difference personnel decisions make for the improvement or the DECLINE of the entire franchise. For too long BB has screwed up the draft and made bad roster decisions. But now that he doesn't have the GOAT QB to wallpaper over the cracks in the foundation, well everything has truly and finally fallen apart.

BB needs to step down as a GM because he has hamstrung the ability of BB the coach to win games. At the very least he must appoint a smart and experienced player personnel director and actually DEFER draft and roster decisions to him.

But I have a feeling Bill is too set in his ways to let go of any power. And maybe the fanbase is ready to move on from BB entirely. The real question is what will Kraft do about this GLARING deficiency in the Patriots front office? It's obvious that the overall TALENT level of this team has gone down the drain, especially on offense and the main CULPRIT for this big pile of FAILURE is BB.

 

[Hyped]

I think it was Albert Breer who said that in 2018, Josh McDaniels really lobbied Belichick to take Lamar Jackson because he felt he was going to be special. Belichick ultimately kiboshed the idea because Jackson didn't fit their system and it would be difficult to go from Brady to Jackson.

I think that is indicative of Belichick's mindset. He is set in his ways and unwilling to change his system for the talent that is coming out of the draft these days and is more focused on players he feels will fit his system. The problem I think is that there isn't a lot of talent coming out college these days that are protypical players for the Patriots' system. I don't think it is the only reason or possibly even the main reason Belichick has been bad at the draft, but it is probably a big contributing factor.

With the Jackson thing, he would have sat for at least a year or two behind Brady and it would have given the Patriots time to start to transform the offense to more suited for Jackson's skills. If Belichick believed McDaniels' evaluation of Jackson, that is what you do. I mean Sony Michel was a key contributor to the Super Bowl run that year, but he was just a RB and replaceable.

McDaniels also lobbied for and got Tim Tebow....so....

And I don't think Brady would have liked us drafting Lamar at the expense of Sony Michel who damn sure helped us that year....

 

[Rob0729]

McDaniels also lobbied for and got Tim Tebow....so....

And I don't think Brady would have liked us drafting Lamar at the expense of Sony Michel who damn sure helped us that year....

Josh has a better history of drafting offensive players than Belichick. McDaniels' Tim Tebow draft also produced three offensive studs in DeMaryius Thomas, Zane Beedles, and Eric Decker.

And making Brady happy shouldn't have been the biggest priority when the Pats were making long term decision of their future when he was 39 years old at the time. And if Belichick moved up five picks instead of trading down in the third round of 2017, he could have drafted Alvin Kamara or stayed where he was and drafted Kareem Hunt, both of whom would have made Brady happier than Michel. And then he could have drafted Jackson in the first round of 2018. But instead he traded down drafted Derek Rivers who was a stud on the IR.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

I've been saying it for years. But now it's become painfully obvious. BB is a terrible GM. He has no clue how to 'shop for groceries' or how to build a good balanced team. He has gone unchecked for too long and now the entire team suffers because of his bad decisions.

In a year where it was obvious that the offense needed help, BB went all in on the defense instead and ignored the glaring needs at tackle and WR. He didn't draft his first WR until round 6. He didn't draft his first OL until round 4 and it wasn't a tackle, surprise it was another guard! And he wasted a 4th round pick plus another pick to trade UP for Chad "67%" Ryland a kicker of all positions!

Let's be real. When we look back the Patriots dynasty teams were built on the backs of great draft picks. In the early 2000's we got studs like Brady, Seymour, Light, Wilfork, Branch. In the early 2010's we got more foundation pieces like McCourty, Solder, Hightower, Chandler Jones, and Gronkowski.

What was the difference between those years and now? We had personnel men who had a bigger say in the draft room than BB. Early 2000's was the fruit of Scott Pioloi's decisions. In the 2010's it was Nick Caserio. In the past decade, it has been BB and a bunch of gutless yesmen and the last two years it was a very inexperienced Matt Groh.

We can see what a huge difference personnel decisions make for the improvement or the DECLINE of the entire franchise. For too long BB has screwed up the draft and made bad roster decisions. But now that he doesn't have the GOAT QB to wallpaper over the cracks in the foundation, well everything has truly and finally fallen apart.

BB needs to step down as a GM because he has hamstrung the ability of BB the coach to win games. At the very least he must appoint a smart and experienced player personnel director and actually DEFER draft and roster decisions to him.

But I have a feeling Bill is too set in his ways to let go of any power. And maybe the fanbase is ready to move on from BB entirely. The real question is what will Kraft do about this GLARING deficiency in the Patriots front office? It's obvious that the overall TALENT level of this team has gone down the drain, especially on offense and the main CULPRIT for this big pile of FAILURE is BB.

They aren't yes man, that's been proven false even though some of you guys keep repeating it, Bill wanted to keep Jakobi but his yes man talked him into signing Juju. If they were yes man they would still have Jakobi.

 

[Hyped]

Josh has a better history of drafting offensive players than Belichick. McDaniels' Tim Tebow draft also produced three offensive studs in DeMaryius Thomas, Zane Beedles, and Eric Decker.

And making Brady happy shouldn't have been the biggest priority when the Pats were making long term decision of their future when he was 39 years old at the time. And if Belichick moved up five picks instead of trading down in the third round of 2017, he could have drafted Alvin Kamara or stayed where he was and drafted Kareem Hunt, both of whom would have made Brady happier than Michel. And then he could have drafted Jackson in the first round of 2018. But instead he traded down drafted Derek Rivers who was a stud on the IR.

Not sure I would say that Josh had a better draft history than BB. I mean BB drafted DMac and Gronk in that same draft...Jermaine Cunningham in round 2 (who was so so for us), Brandon Spikes in round 2 (he was a good downhill LB for us for a while), then Taylor Price in round 3 (3-4 picks after Decker, who never worked out for us), then Hernandez in round 4 (that did work for us until he decided to be a gangsta), Mesko in the 5th (he was exciting for a while before flaming out), Ted Larsen in round 6 wasn't bad...good back up OL-man, and then a bunch of guys in round 7 I don't remember.

Nonetheless, just the 2010 draft alone...BB won that draft for damn sure....even if he ONLY drafted Gronk.

And Brady was not happy about the Garopollo pick in 2014....but that sure worked out for us though...and we were still able to get a 2nd back...although that turned out to be Duke Dawson I think....

I mean...BB is not a terrible drafter...he takes multiple shots...hits on some...but no better nor worse than other teams. A lot of it had to do with BB not drafting higher than the #20 spot for years. Look at his body of work for early 1st: Seymour (HOF), Jerod Mayo (one of the best LB'ers we ever had), Ty Warren (a solid starting DL-man for years), Mac Jones (was a Pro-Bowler in his rookie year), and Nate Solder (was a reliable LT for years before flaming out with the Giants), and now Christian Gonzalez (who looks like our #1CB for the next 4 years). That's the list of guys he picked #6, #10, #13, #15, #17, and #17.

He has fared much better in the back end of the 1st too: Logan Mankins, DMac, Merriweather (was good for a while), Wynn/Michel, Hightower/Chan Jones, etc....with some major misses (Harry).

And did some good in round 2: Klemm (starting OT), Matt Light (Pats HOF someday), Deion Branch (key for the 2003 title team), Eugene Wilson (was OK for a while), Marquise Hill (did not contribute much before he passed away), Chad Jackson (big miss), Terrence Wheatley (so so), Chung (big hit especially in the 2nd stint), Brace (miss), Darius Butler (miss, but played OK with the Colts), Vollmer (big hit...reliable RT and even played LT on an ACL tear in 2015), Gronk (best TE of all time), Cunningham/Spikes (OK LBers for a while), Ras-I Downling (miss, but injury related, IMO), Vereen (hit, big part of the 2014 SB team), Tavon Wilson (miss), Jamie Collins (good player, but free lanced a bit too much), Aaron Dobson (miss, but man I liked him!), Jimmy G (he was a NFL starter for a while and even played in a SB), Jordan Richards (big miss), Cyrus Jones (big miss, but decent PR if he didn't fumble), Duke Dawson (ouch, but think he was OK OK with the Broncos), JoeJuan Williams (big miss), Dugger (should be a probowl S), Uche (good #2 pass rusher), Barmore (love the guy and think he's here to stay), Tyquan Thorton (looking like a miss), and Keion White (more active last Sunday).

And there were countless guys that were major contributors from rounds 3-7 and the UDFA pool: Brady (duh), Edelman (7th), Thuney (3), Jack Jones (4, before he was cut), Rham (4), Onwenu (6), Malcolm Mitchell (4, until he got hurt and retired), Elandon Roberts (6), Ted Karras (6), Trey Flowers (4), Shaq Mason (4), Bryant Stork (4, before concussions did him in, IMO), James White (4), Logan Ryan (3), Duron Harmon (3), Vereen (3), Ridley (3, before he fell off a cliff), Cannon (5, because he had NHL), Hernandez (4), Slater (5), Gostkowski (4), Cassell (7, he was a NFL starter for a while), Asante Samuel (4), Dan Koppen (5), Banta-Cain (7), David Givens (7), and J.R. Redmond (3). Then for the UDFAs: Malcolm Butler, Stephen Neal, Ben Jarvus Green Ellis, David Andrews, and a few more I am forgetting.

Dunno...hard to measure a drafter's success or lack thereof...it is an inexact science....but BB for the most part does OK when drafting high and hits enough on the back end because he takes multiple shots....

 

[archstanton543]

Not sure I would say that Josh had a better draft history than BB. I mean BB drafted DMac and Gronk in that same draft...Jermaine Cunningham in round 2 (who was so so for us), Brandon Spikes in round 2 (he was a good downhill LB for us for a while), then Taylor Price in round 3 (3-4 picks after Decker, who never worked out for us), then Hernandez in round 4 (that did work for us until he decided to be a gangsta), Mesko in the 5th (he was exciting for a while before flaming out), Ted Larsen in round 6 wasn't bad...good back up OL-man, and then a bunch of guys in round 7 I don't remember.

Nonetheless, just the 2010 draft alone...BB won that draft for damn sure....even if he ONLY drafted Gronk.

And Brady was not happy about the Garopollo pick in 2014....but that sure worked out for us though...and we were still able to get a 2nd back...although that turned out to be Duke Dawson I think....

I mean...BB is not a terrible drafter...he takes multiple shots...hits on some...but no better nor worse than other teams. A lot of it had to do with BB not drafting higher than the #20 spot for years. Look at his body of work for early 1st: Seymour (HOF), Jerod Mayo (one of the best LB'ers we ever had), Ty Warren (a solid starting DL-man for years), Mac Jones (was a Pro-Bowler in his rookie year), and Nate Solder (was a reliable LT for years before flaming out with the Giants), and now Christian Gonzalez (who looks like our #1CB for the next 4 years). That's the list of guys he picked #6, #10, #13, #15, #17, and #17.

He has fared much better in the back end of the 1st too: Logan Mankins, DMac, Merriweather (was good for a while), Wynn/Michel, Hightower/Chan Jones, etc....with some major misses (Harry).

And did some good in round 2: Klemm (starting OT), Matt Light (Pats HOF someday), Deion Branch (key for the 2003 title team), Eugene Wilson (was OK for a while), Marquise Hill (did not contribute much before he passed away), Chad Jackson (big miss), Terrence Wheatley (so so), Chung (big hit especially in the 2nd stint), Brace (miss), Darius Butler (miss, but played OK with the Colts), Vollmer (big hit...reliable RT and even played LT on an ACL tear in 2015), Gronk (best TE of all time), Cunningham/Spikes (OK LBers for a while), Ras-I Downling (miss, but injury related, IMO), Vereen (hit, big part of the 2014 SB team), Tavon Wilson (miss), Jamie Collins (good player, but free lanced a bit too much), Aaron Dobson (miss, but man I liked him!), Jimmy G (he was a NFL starter for a while and even played in a SB), Jordan Richards (big miss), Cyrus Jones (big miss, but decent PR if he didn't fumble), Duke Dawson (ouch, but think he was OK OK with the Broncos), JoeJuan Williams (big miss), Dugger (should be a probowl S), Uche (good #2 pass rusher), Barmore (love the guy and think he's here to stay), Tyquan Thorton (looking like a miss), and Keion White (more active last Sunday).

And there were countless guys that were major contributors from rounds 3-7 and the UDFA pool: Brady (duh), Edelman (7th), Thuney (3), Jack Jones (4, before he was cut), Rham (4), Onwenu (6), Malcolm Mitchell (4, until he got hurt and retired), Elandon Roberts (6), Ted Karras (6), Trey Flowers (4), Shaq Mason (4), Bryant Stork (4, before concussions did him in, IMO), James White (4), Logan Ryan (3), Duron Harmon (3), Vereen (3), Ridley (3, before he fell off a cliff), Cannon (5, because he had NHL), Hernandez (4), Slater (5), Gostkowski (4), Cassell (7, he was a NFL starter for a while), Asante Samuel (4), Dan Koppen (5), Banta-Cain (7), David Givens (7), and J.R. Redmond (3). Then for the UDFAs: Malcolm Butler, Stephen Neal, Ben Jarvus Green Ellis, David Andrews, and a few more I am forgetting.

Dunno...hard to measure a drafter's success or lack thereof...it is an inexact science....but BB for the most part does OK when drafting high and hits enough on the back end because he takes multiple shots....

I like that all the latest homerun picks (other than Gonzo....but even then we don't know for sure) are from around a decade ago. That's the problem.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Economics. Bill is too often looking for the best deal, instead of the better player.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Not sure I would say that Josh had a better draft history than BB. I mean BB drafted DMac and Gronk in that same draft...Jermaine Cunningham in round 2 (who was so so for us), Brandon Spikes in round 2 (he was a good downhill LB for us for a while), then Taylor Price in round 3 (3-4 picks after Decker, who never worked out for us), then Hernandez in round 4 (that did work for us until he decided to be a gangsta), Mesko in the 5th (he was exciting for a while before flaming out), Ted Larsen in round 6 wasn't bad...good back up OL-man, and then a bunch of guys in round 7 I don't remember.

Nonetheless, just the 2010 draft alone...BB won that draft for damn sure....even if he ONLY drafted Gronk.

And Brady was not happy about the Garopollo pick in 2014....but that sure worked out for us though...and we were still able to get a 2nd back...although that turned out to be Duke Dawson I think....

I mean...BB is not a terrible drafter...he takes multiple shots...hits on some...but no better nor worse than other teams. A lot of it had to do with BB not drafting higher than the #20 spot for years. Look at his body of work for early 1st: Seymour (HOF), Jerod Mayo (one of the best LB'ers we ever had), Ty Warren (a solid starting DL-man for years), Mac Jones (was a Pro-Bowler in his rookie year), and Nate Solder (was a reliable LT for years before flaming out with the Giants), and now Christian Gonzalez (who looks like our #1CB for the next 4 years). That's the list of guys he picked #6, #10, #13, #15, #17, and #17.

He has fared much better in the back end of the 1st too: Logan Mankins, DMac, Merriweather (was good for a while), Wynn/Michel, Hightower/Chan Jones, etc....with some major misses (Harry).

And did some good in round 2: Klemm (starting OT), Matt Light (Pats HOF someday), Deion Branch (key for the 2003 title team), Eugene Wilson (was OK for a while), Marquise Hill (did not contribute much before he passed away), Chad Jackson (big miss), Terrence Wheatley (so so), Chung (big hit especially in the 2nd stint), Brace (miss), Darius Butler (miss, but played OK with the Colts), Vollmer (big hit...reliable RT and even played LT on an ACL tear in 2015), Gronk (best TE of all time), Cunningham/Spikes (OK LBers for a while), Ras-I Downling (miss, but injury related, IMO), Vereen (hit, big part of the 2014 SB team), Tavon Wilson (miss), Jamie Collins (good player, but free lanced a bit too much), Aaron Dobson (miss, but man I liked him!), Jimmy G (he was a NFL starter for a while and even played in a SB), Jordan Richards (big miss), Cyrus Jones (big miss, but decent PR if he didn't fumble), Duke Dawson (ouch, but think he was OK OK with the Broncos), JoeJuan Williams (big miss), Dugger (should be a probowl S), Uche (good #2 pass rusher), Barmore (love the guy and think he's here to stay), Tyquan Thorton (looking like a miss), and Keion White (more active last Sunday).

And there were countless guys that were major contributors from rounds 3-7 and the UDFA pool: Brady (duh), Edelman (7th), Thuney (3), Jack Jones (4, before he was cut), Rham (4), Onwenu (6), Malcolm Mitchell (4, until he got hurt and retired), Elandon Roberts (6), Ted Karras (6), Trey Flowers (4), Shaq Mason (4), Bryant Stork (4, before concussions did him in, IMO), James White (4), Logan Ryan (3), Duron Harmon (3), Vereen (3), Ridley (3, before he fell off a cliff), Cannon (5, because he had NHL), Hernandez (4), Slater (5), Gostkowski (4), Cassell (7, he was a NFL starter for a while), Asante Samuel (4), Dan Koppen (5), Banta-Cain (7), David Givens (7), and J.R. Redmond (3). Then for the UDFAs: Malcolm Butler, Stephen Neal, Ben Jarvus Green Ellis, David Andrews, and a few more I am forgetting.

Dunno...hard to measure a drafter's success or lack thereof...it is an inexact science....but BB for the most part does OK when drafting high and hits enough on the back end because he takes multiple shots....

Since the Pats are our team and he's our coach we compare him to perfection, wasn't there studies done a few years back that had BB as one of the best drafters for quite a few years even though he was always looking at the lower rounds for picks? I remember an article about that. Compare him to other GM's and not perfection and you get a different perspective.

 

[BennyBledsoe]

Name me the difference makers he's drafted in the past decade on offense.

 

[Hyped]

I like that all the latest homerun picks (other than Gonzo....but even then we don't know for sure) are from around a decade ago. That's the problem.

And we were pretty damn good the last decade, no? Jones (15) and Gonzalez (17) are the highest draft picks other than maybe #21....

Again, an inexact science....I think a better case could be made for the "miss" on Harry, the refusal to over pay for Hopkins, the desperation move in giving up a 2nd for Snau, and etc....

 

[Boomer B]

And we were pretty damn good the last decade, no? Jones (15) and Gonzalez (17) are the highest draft picks other than maybe #21....

Again, an inexact science....I think a better case could be made for the "miss" on Harry, the refusal to over pay for Hopkins, the desperation move in giving up a 2nd for Snau, and etc....

Gotta dig deeper though

The drafts from 09 - 14 really set up the 2nd run of the dynasty. Those players (Gronk, Edelman, McCourty, Hightower, Flowers, etc) hit their prime from 2012-2018 or so and we won another 3 SBs.

But then you look at the drafts from 2015-now and it’s plain to see the roster wasnt replenished with upper tier talent. We haven’t drafted a great skill position player in over a decade. We rarely even sign our guys to a 2nd contract. Once those players we drafted from 09 - 2014 started to fade we didn’t have the same quality of players needed to continue being a good playoff caliber team. Bill lost his fastball.

 

[Real fan 02]

McDaniels also lobbied for and got Tim Tebow....so....

And I don't think Brady would have liked us drafting Lamar at the expense of Sony Michel who damn sure helped us that year....

That's true, Curran reported that ownership got involved due to the continued draft bust each year. Bill was also reported ignoring the draft scouts, Duke Dawson, Cyrus Jones, N'Keal Harry, Isiah Wynn... on and on. He said it would be a more collaborative effort. I just think Bill is stuck in his ways and it's players he wants that he feels can work in his system. They still should have taken Lamar. His rookie season he brung his team to the playoffs. Sony was great that season. But We still would have found a way to run the ball.

 

[Real fan 02]

That's true, Curran reported that ownership got involved due to the continued draft bust each year. Bill was also reported ignoring the draft scouts, Duke Dawson, Cyrus Jones, N'Keal Harry, Isiah Wynn... on and on. He said it would be a more collaborative effort. I just think Bill is stuck in his ways and it's players he wants that he feels can work in his system. They still should have taken Lamar. His rookie season he brung his team to the playoffs. Sony was great that season. But We still would have found a way to run the ball.

@archstanton543

What don't u agree with my friend? That is all factual. Curran reported it. Lamar should have been taken. Baltimore knew Flacco was done they had to take a QB. They designed thier offense around LJs abilities. Harbaugh didn't hire his buddies to coach and pretty much ruin him like Billy B did.

 

[archstanton543]

@archstanton543

What don't u agree with my friend? That is all factual. Curran reported it. Lamar should have been taken. Baltimore knew Flacco was done they had to take a QB. They designed thier offense around LJs abilities. Harbaugh didn't hire his buddies to coach and pretty much ruin him like Billy B did.

The Pats were set at running back. They were never going to take Lamar. He doesn't fit their scheme. He's one of those million dollar arm (or legs or both) and 50 cent head. That's not the kind of QB BB is looking for. (For better or worse).

 

[Real fan 02]

The Pats were set at running back. They were never going to take Lamar. He doesn't fit their scheme. He's one of those million dollar arm (or legs or both) and 50 cent head. That's not the kind of QB BB is looking for. (For better or worse).

I agree they weren't. But they should have. Ozzie Newsom is a much better offensive talent evaluating GM than Bill is. Organizations when they draft a guy they have to scheme the offense to what that said player a QB dies well. Demeco Ryan's said that is what he did with CJ.

 

[1960Pats]

ESPN has been talking about this almost daily saying it was a colossal mistake for Bill letting Tom go and it is tarnishing his legacy.

I think that generally coaches are overrated but Bill's a great in-game coach with a keen defensive mind. He's just not as strong with the offense and drafting and may spend too much on STs. But he totally lost me when he forced out two of the greatest Patriots ever well before their time. And the fact that he did it to save NYFL pocket change and got nothing in return just adds salt to that wound for me.

I can't say it enough. I want Bill gone yesterday.

 

[1960Pats]

I agree they weren't. But they should have. Ozzie Newsom is a much better offensive talent evaluating GM than Bill is. Organizations when they draft a guy they have to scheme the offense to what that said player a QB dies well. Demeco Ryan's said that is what he did with CJ.

One of my regrets is that Ozzie Newsome didn't stay with Bill and end up here. He was lights out one of the best at player evaluations.

Trying to draft the correct players is a tough enough job just going for talent. When you throw in that they have to fit a particular system then it's going to be even tougher. I still wouldn't have wanted Jackson here though. I don't want a QB who can't read a defense.