Mac Not Happy With the Groceries

[RIpats88]

You keep saying stuff like this, but Purdy's receivers actually get wide open and he has more than half a second on the line. Purdy would go back to being Mr. Irrelevant here.

Let's just calll a spade a spade. None of our WR's here would beat out Deebo or Aiyuk to get one of the top two WR slots. Not a single one is even in their league. Kittle is in a different stratosphere from any of our TE's. And then McAffrey is more productive purely as a rusher than both of our running back combined... AND he'd probably beat out most of our WR's for the WR3 slot on the 49'ers if they competed for it.

It's not worth making the comparison. Mac throws hospital balls because the WR's here suck a big one and can't get open and the options are take a sack or hope they make a play. And you'd cry if he took the sack, I've seen you do that many times when no WR's were open.

Purdy is good because his team set him up for success. Mac is going to be a bust because the Patriots failed him the same way most bottomfeeder teams fail to develop and surround their QB. This is team failure, not a "the QB is holding us back" failure.

Purdy would not look like he does with this OL and these receivers. Not sure how people would even argue that. I think it makes fans feel better if in their mind we just need to replace the QB.

That's not to take anything away from Purdy. But I watch the 49ers games this season and it's not like he's doing anything spectacular.

It's okay to admit the roster is hot garbage and not doing Mac any favors even if you think Mac Jones sucks and should be replaced.

I've asked time and time again what QB do you guys think would excel in this offense? I never get an answer because people knows it stinks. The announcers know it stinks. It's only the fans here pinning it on one man.

To be this bad it can't be just the QB. Now Mac may be totally broken from my observation. But the OL is the worst in the league and our receivers are probably the worst in the league. So it's a recipe for disaster. You are asking a 3rd year guy who doesn't have the skillet to carry a team to go out there and make a play.

Maybe we need to see zappe get destroyed in a game (even though he hasn't been good these last 2 games or all preseason) with the same issues to realize.

But even then the bill honks will chalk it up to zappe not being the guy and if we just draft a new QB all will be fine! Then we will gift him "stink stank stunk" with no OL and ruin him. Like the jets do.

Btw remember when the board attacked giardi for calling our receivers stink stank and stunk?

 

[upstater1]

A modern era GM that's connected with the college ranks and can identify talent correctly.

Let's do the last 4 seasons. Where the Patriots were picking, what move would you make otherwise?

And please make this relative to what the rest of the league is doing. A lot of teams (Phins, Bills, etc) sink to the bottom which allows them to reset. I look at the Patriots drafting and I see misses. But it's always in context. Tyquan over Pickens was a big miss. The first 6 WRs before Pickens, tho, are doing nothing or already busted.

This is the problem. There's a lot of young talent right now, and let's face it they are mostly here to operate in Belichick's defense (bend don't break).

In 2000, the team got rid of a lot of young talent that went on to play well elsewhere (Terry Glenn, Greg Spires, Shawn Jefferson, Ben Coates) and after 2001 even more were let go (Bledsoe, Milloy, Woody).

The poor season lead to a top draft pick in Richard Seymour, who ended up as a HOFer. We haven't picked that high since 2001.

But look who came along for the ride from the Carroll years (most of them with only 3 or 4 years under their belt): McGinest, Bruschi, Law, Troy Brown, Kevin Faulk, Ted Johnson, Brandon Mitchell, Adam Vinatieri. This was the foundation for what came next.

No one would've thought McGinest would turn into what he did. In fact, McGinest was considered an Uche with less production by most Patriots fans in 1999. Faulk a complete waste of a draft pick. Troy Brown not even a top WR. Bruschi was a drinking game.

This is why I say there's a foundation here with many players who can be among the best in the league. Even on the OL with Onwenu and Brown. But mostly on D with Wise, White, Barmore, Uche, Dugger, Peppers, Gonzalez and the 3 Joneses.

 

[PatsFan2]

Mac doesn't understands the Defense his pre snap reads are the Worse.

Only @sstan543 disagrees with that^ smh.

 

[lancerman]

Go back watch the First game against the Eagles. Bourne beat his defender yet the ball took an eternity to get there should have been a walk in TD. But that's Helium Ball Mac for you he is who he is a CanadianFL guy masquerading as a NFL QB.

Bro guess what? Purdy, Mahomes, Herbert, throw a few bad passes a game and miss guys. Brady used to do it to.

Football is a numbers game. When the line breaks down on half the snaps (like they did yesterday) and the RB's **** the bed and you are in long yardage situations on most drives, and the WR's are only getting open a handful of times... then yeah the bad passes in the rare instance something goes well add up.

See you harp on things like Bourne in week one, but you ignore the perfectly thrown touchdown pass last week that the WR blatantly screwed up on. Or what should have been a drive extender vs the Eagles that the WR couldn't make a routine toe touch. Or how often the WR's who aren't getting open fail to get contested to balls. The difference is you look at things in a vacuum to make your case and then ignore the other 90% of the game. I'm convinced you watch the whole game waiting for Mac to overthrow someone and ignore everything up to that point and then at the end of the game have a couple of bad plays in your back pocket to argue and then call everyone who points out all the **** that went down the rest of the game a Maccite or whatever catchphrase you developed.

49'ers fans would not discount the massive difference in talent surrounding Purdy vs Mac. No sane football fan is making that sort of comparison right now because it's night and day. Even non Patriots fans are looking and can't believe the pure lack of talent on the offense. It's just a bad team. Mac might have been an above average starter before we screwed him up. I doubt there's much more he could achieve. But nobody is achieving that here. There's no quick fix. There's no QB out there that is coming and "elevating" this into a winning squad. Mahomes if he was behind this line is more likely to get injured when he starts running and bailing on plays after it breaks down. We've seen what he becomes behind a bad offensive line. That's before we even talk about the level of pass catchers he enjoyed. Mahomes is way better than Mac too. He just isn't fixing a bottom tier team. Mac's problem is mostly that he needed to be developed and got a crap team that couldn't do it and set him up to fail. He's not the main problem. He's a problem. But you can't fix that problem with a foundationally bad team.

 

[upstater1]

Mac Jones is really bad. Fans need to understand that here; he is sucking the energy from this team. He is corrosive. The idea that he'd be better IF is just nonsense.

In Brady's first year, he was not yet the Brady we knew. Simply put: we removed a guy who was failing us in Bledsoe, and we went to a turnover averse offense that gave the rest of the team a chance to win games. We didn't see the fruits of this until 2003 when it all came together.

Sometimes your QB is indeed a huge impediment, and even the former 4th string QB and future superstar just needs to stand up and perform like an average guy for it to come together as it did in 2001.

 

[Wozzy]

I doubt this thread subject is true, that they found someone close to Mac to talk to them.

But if it is true (or isn't)... fck Mac, he is the biggest problem on this team.



Replace Mac with someone competent and watch magically as everything else improves.

 

[PatsFan2]

Bro guess what? Purdy, Mahomes, Herbert, throw a few bad passes a game and miss guys. Brady used to do it to.

Football is a numbers game. When the line breaks down on half the snaps (like they did yesterday) and the RB's **** the bed and you are in long yardage situations on most drives, and the WR's are only getting open a handful of times... then yeah the bad passes in the rare instance something goes well add up.

See you harp on things like Bourne in week one, but you ignore the perfectly thrown touchdown pass last week that the WR blatantly screwed up on. Or what should have been a drive extender vs the Eagles that the WR couldn't make a routine toe touch. Or how often the WR's who aren't getting open fail to get contested to balls. The difference is you look at things in a vacuum to make your case and then ignore the other 90% of the game. I'm convinced you watch the whole game waiting for Mac to overthrow someone and ignore everything up to that point and then at the end of the game have a couple of bad plays in your back pocket to argue and then call everyone who points out all the **** that went down the rest of the game a Maccite or whatever catchphrase you developed.

49'ers fans would not discount the massive difference in talent surrounding Purdy vs Mac. No sane football fan is making that sort of comparison right now because it's night and day. Even non Patriots fans are looking and can't believe the pure lack of talent on the offense. It's just a bad team. Mac might have been an above average starter before we screwed him up. I doubt there's much more he could achieve. But nobody is achieving that here. There's no quick fix. There's no QB out there that is coming and "elevating" this into a winning squad. Mahomes if he was behind this line is more likely to get injured when he starts running and bailing on plays after it breaks down. We've seen what he becomes behind a bad offensive line. That's before we even talk about the level of pass catchers he enjoyed. Mahomes is way better than Mac too. He just isn't fixing a bottom tier team. Mac's problem is mostly that he needed to be developed and got a crap team that couldn't do it and set him up to fail. He's not the main problem. He's a problem. But you can't fix that problem with a foundationally bad team.

Put a competent QB behind Center and I guarantee we would see different results... it's Him I'm Done!

 

[RodThePat]

Purdy would not look like he does with this OL and these receivers. Not sure how people would even argue that. I think it makes fans feel better if in their mind we just need to replace the QB.

That's not to take anything away from Purdy. But I watch the 49ers games this season and it's not like he's doing anything spectacular.

It's okay to admit the roster is hot garbage and not doing Mac any favors even if you think Mac Jones sucks and should be replaced.

I've asked time and time again what QB do you guys think would excel in this offense? I never get an answer because people knows it stinks. The announcers know it stinks. It's only the fans here pinning it on one man.

To be this bad it can't be just the QB. Now Mac may be totally broken from my observation. But the OL is the worst in the league and our receivers are probably the worst in the league. So it's a recipe for disaster. You are asking a 3rd year guy who doesn't have the skillet to carry a team to go out there and make a play.

Maybe we need to see zappe get destroyed in a game (even though he hasn't been good these last 2 games or all preseason) with the same issues to realize.

But even then the bill honks will chalk it up to zappe not being the guy and if we just draft a new QB all will be fine! Then we will gift him "stink stank stunk" with no OL and ruin him. Like the jets do.

Btw remember when the board attacked giardi for calling our receivers stink stank and stunk?

This framing is disingenuous. They are right now far and away the worst offense in football by EPA/Play, and they are even more far and away the worst passing offense in football by EPA/Play. I would agree, no QB would make this passing game EXCEL. They likely wouldn't have a top 10 passing offense with Patrick Mahomes. But why is that the standard? Because if they could have, say, the 17th best offense with another QB that's obviously not excelling, but it would provide a HUGE boost to the team. What about the 25th ranked offense? Still a marked improvement. I think there are tons of QBs that would make them look better even with these weapons and this OL. Maybe none of them would turn this into a very good unit, but an improvement from "far and away the worst in football"? Sure.

They need to get better at skill positions and at OL no matter who is QB, that's a given. But the QB play has been awful as well. It is what it is. You don't get the worst offense in football by a mile if you have adequate QB play. Simply does not happen.

 

[PatsFan2]

I doubt this thread subject is true, that they found someone close to Mac to talk to them.

But if it is true (or isn't)... fck Mac, he is the biggest problem on this team.



Replace Mac with someone competent and watch magically as everything else improves.

My long lost twin brother.

 

[RIpats88]

Bro guess what? Purdy, Mahomes, Herbert, throw a few bad passes a game and miss guys. Brady used to do it to.

Football is a numbers game. When the line breaks down on half the snaps (like they did yesterday) and the RB's **** the bed and you are in long yardage situations on most drives, and the WR's are only getting open a handful of times... then yeah the bad passes in the rare instance something goes well add up.

See you harp on things like Bourne in week one, but you ignore the perfectly thrown touchdown pass last week that the WR blatantly screwed up on. Or what should have been a drive extender vs the Eagles that the WR couldn't make a routine toe touch. Or how often the WR's who aren't getting open fail to get contested to balls. The difference is you look at things in a vacuum to make your case and then ignore the other 90% of the game. I'm convinced you watch the whole game waiting for Mac to overthrow someone and ignore everything up to that point and then at the end of the game have a couple of bad plays in your back pocket to argue and then call everyone who points out all the **** that went down the rest of the game a Maccite or whatever catchphrase you developed.

49'ers fans would not discount the massive difference in talent surrounding Purdy vs Mac. No sane football fan is making that sort of comparison right now because it's night and day. Even non Patriots fans are looking and can't believe the pure lack of talent on the offense. It's just a bad team. Mac might have been an above average starter before we screwed him up. I doubt there's much more he could achieve. But nobody is achieving that here. There's no quick fix. There's no QB out there that is coming and "elevating" this into a winning squad. Mahomes if he was behind this line is more likely to get injured when he starts running and bailing on plays after it breaks down. We've seen what he becomes behind a bad offensive line. That's before we even talk about the level of pass catchers he enjoyed. Mahomes is way better than Mac too. He just isn't fixing a bottom tier team. Mac's problem is mostly that he needed to be developed and got a crap team that couldn't do it and set him up to fail. He's not the main problem. He's a problem. But you can't fix that problem with a foundationally bad team.

For some reason fans equate acknowledging the roster is garbage with a defense of Mac Jones.

Two things can be true. Mac Jones may not be good and the roster can be absolute garbage

It's not going to improve much whomever you put back there. Our OL is giving up 50% pressure rate worst in the league. We are averaging 3.3ypc and our receivers are garbage.

All of these issues were brought up by the media in the offseason.

 

[libra957]

When the ball get snapped Mac needs to have better plans if he thinks the serie has no chance.

 

[PatsFan2]

My long lost twin brother we made identical posts above.

 

[203Pat]

Even then he's only fine if his number one receiver wins and he can throw it to him on time from a solid base. If he has a good pocket but the number one option can't win, the feet get wonky and he throws changeups. His mechanics drive me nuts, and they drove me nuts at Alabama too, with pockets 3 acres wide. He threw falling away from the ball constantly in college. It's just that A) more often than not his number one option was 5 yards open at the top of the route and B), even if he wasn't, the number 2 option would be 5 yards open and a bad throw from a poor base would still amount to a completion.

Bedard has been calling him "Back Foot Mac" and it seems like an apt nickname at this point. I think we just have our own version of David Carr as far as the mental aspect goes. Too many hits and too much chaos around him to ever step up and be the guy and it looks like Mac will end up as one of those "what if's?"

Nick Saban said that the one thing Mac had to fix most about himself is his emotions. And I think that is what is hurting him most right now. With a player like Brady, he channels his emotions and gets him fired up. Mac has turtled. He has regressed everything about himself because of it. He isn't making the smart and fast decisions he used to. He is throwing off his back foot all the time and his fundamentals have gone to crap. Anything that were positive about him have been huge liabilities the last two weeks.

I did dismiss a lot of the talk about his emotions getting the best of him and I was clearly wrong.

I listen PFW in Progress/Patriots Unfiltered and Mike Dussalt said that he talked to Mac's high school coach for a piece he was writing on Mac during his rookie year and apparently his coach back then said the same exact thing. From what I remember his high school coach said he would be too hard on himself and get in his own head and compound the issue. Sucks that issue is going to be his main downfall years later.

 

[upstater1]

Same tired stuff.

Pittsburgh has 11 take aways this year. The Patriots have two. The Patriots defense has played really well for a lot of the season and the offense has failed them in a lot of cases, but they are not making turnovers and putting the offense in situations for short fields. That is the one area the defense has significantly been lacking this year. But it still doesn't make it their fault that the offense isn't doing anything.

When you give the opposition a free 14 points on offense, the opposing team can do what the Saints did. Mix things up and keep the D guessing. When you're never in 3rd and longs, the opposing D has very little opportunity to manufacture those turnovers.

I saw this coming in the Miami game. I thought the rest of the team played really hard but they were let down by Mac. I wrote about it here then. This team now has lost faith in mac. That much is obvious. Your QB can't keep giving the other team free points like this, because playing from behind in the NFL creates bad outcomes for the defense as well.

 

[PatsFan2]

When the ball get snapped Mac needs to have better plans if he thinks the serie has no chance.

But...but Mac is smart pre snap Not!

 

[upstater1]

Put a competent QB behind Center and I guarantee we would see different results... it's Him I'm Done!

I do believe we need a #1 WR! Yes, of course we do.

But put Baker Mayfield behind this line and yes the team wins 2 more games and sits at 3-2 right now.

It's not a playoff team or a contender without that #1 WR, but it's also not the 5th worst team in the NFL either.

 

[PatsFan2]

Bedard has been calling him "Back Foot Mac" and it seems like an apt nickname at this point. I think we just have our own version of David Carr as far as the mental aspect goes. Too many hits and too much chaos around him to ever step up and be the guy and it looks like Mac will end up as one of those "what if's?"

I listen PFW in Progress/Patriots Unfiltered and Mike Dussalt said that he talked to Mac's high school coach for a piece he was writing on Mac during his rookie year and apparently his coach back then said the same exact thing. From what I remember his high school coach said he would be too hard on himself and get in his own head and compound the issue. Sucks that issue is going to be his main downfall years later.

Preaching to the choir.

 

[lancerman]

Purdy would not look like he does with this OL and these receivers. Not sure how people would even argue that. I think it makes fans feel better if in their mind we just need to replace the QB.

That's not to take anything away from Purdy. But I watch the 49ers games this season and it's not like he's doing anything spectacular.

It's okay to admit the roster is hot garbage and not doing Mac any favors even if you think Mac Jones sucks and should be replaced.

I've asked time and time again what QB do you guys think would excel in this offense? I never get an answer because people knows it stinks. The announcers know it stinks. It's only the fans here pinning it on one man.

To be this bad it can't be just the QB. Now Mac may be totally broken from my observation. But the OL is the worst in the league and our receivers are probably the worst in the league. So it's a recipe for disaster. You are asking a 3rd year guy who doesn't have the skillet to carry a team to go out there and make a play.

Maybe we need to see zappe get destroyed in a game (even though he hasn't been good these last 2 games or all preseason) with the same issues to realize.

But even then the bill honks will chalk it up to zappe not being the guy and if we just draft a new QB all will be fine! Then we will gift him "stink stank stunk" with no OL and ruin him. Like the jets do.

Btw remember when the board attacked giardi for calling our receivers stink stank and stunk?

The issue is we get vague answers of how there are QB's capable of elevating the offense even if it wouldn't be a massive success. But I saw Patrick Mahomes have the worst game of his life with a terrible offensive line in the Super Bowl a couple years ago and I saw him play like crap without Kelce and a big name WR early this year. I saw Brady with better WR's but a swiss cheese line and lack of consistency in the WR corp having his first losing record last year. I saw Tua and Allen be viewed as near busts when their offense wasn't all that good. I've seen Rodgers miss the playoffs more than once and complain about his offense and even get his coach fired over it.

So I'm not sure where these magic QB's that are supposed to save the day and overwrite everything are.

Seriously people should ask themselves this. Was Joe Montana in an offense as bad as this ever? Was Tom Brady (the closest was what 2019 and he still had Edelman and Gordon for part of the year), was Peyton Manning? Was Patrick Mahomes? Was Aaron Rodgers? Was Drew Brees?

The problem is foundational team building failures. Not one guy.

 

[RIpats88]

This framing is disingenuous. They are right now far and away the worst offense in football by EPA/Play, and they are even more far and away the worst passing offense in football by EPA/Play. I would agree, no QB would make this passing game EXCEL. They likely wouldn't have a top 10 passing offense with Patrick Mahomes. But why is that the standard? Because if they could have, say, the 17th best offense with another QB that's obviously not excelling, but it would provide a HUGE boost to the team. What about the 25th ranked offense? Still a marked improvement. I think there are tons of QBs that would make them look better even with these weapons and this OL. Maybe none of them would turn this into a very good unit, but an improvement from "far and away the worst in football"? Sure.

They need to get better at skill positions and at OL no matter who is QB, that's a given. But the QB play has been awful as well. It is what it is. You don't get the worst offense in football by a mile if you have adequate QB play. Simply does not happen.

Here's what I mean. Acknowledging that this roster is garbage and Purdy would look bad on it isn't exactly saying Mac Jones is good and should be the starter.

too many fans on this board have the opinion "replace Mac = wins!" As some weird defense of Bills roster building strategy.

that's all I was responding too. Yes to be 32nd in all categories means you have to fail across the board.

 

[A Defiant Goose]

I think we could be a decent offense with a more prominent two TE attack. Pharaoh Brown needs to play more, with Bourne and Douglas as the two WRs. All this offense needs is a running game and some play action and I think that personnel gives them their best chance. I mean we are already getting smothered by simple man coverages how much worse can it get