BOB 'Completely Reworking' Pats Offense

[Noexcusesfornumber5]

Two seasons ago I believed that a great defensive mind could disect anything an offense could put on the field. I also believed that we had a QB that could cover up any miscues that coach might have with his on field play. I believe that BB found out the hard way ( like other teams do when they poach from us), they're not him. PBB did the only thing we could ask from him, make improvements.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I think it's exactly what BOB said: they're starting with a "clean slate," which means EVERYTHING is open. It actually makes sense IMO, as last season was such a mess offensively it offered no firm basis from which to adequately evaluate player performances or individual potential. In that respect it's understandable why Mac's name isn't mentioned in the context of starting QB: they will be two seasons removed from his promising rookie campaign and he'll have to win the job all over again.

Of course, it COULD be they've already decided to trade him and move on. But I think if you take BOB's words at face value, that's explanation enough for how they plan to proceed. At this stage I wouldn't look too hard for hidden meanings via omission.

I agree about taking it at face value and not looking for hidden meanings. Great advice.

Having said that, BOB was dismissive with facial expressions about previously working with Mac. He easily could have been more diplomatic but chose not to. It even looked like he had previously thought about, or practiced, his answer. It is hard not to ask why.

 

[moosekill]

Let’s face it though,Bill likes to have competition at every position. People point to Cam, but that was more about protecting a rookie qb in case he struggled than really giving Cam the job. And in the end Mac seems to thrive on competition, so making him earn it, if he does, is probably the right thing to do.

 

[moosekill]

I agree about taking it at face value and not looking for hidden meanings. Great advice.

Having said that, BOB was dismissive with facial expressions about previously working with Mac. He easily could have been more diplomatic but chose not to. It even looked like he had previously thought about, or practiced, his answer. It is hard not to ask why.

Bob wasn’t going to lie, what would you want him to say. I guess he could of thrown a few platitudes his way, but it really seems like he didn’t have much to do with him.

 

[TomPatriot]

I agree about taking it at face value and not looking for hidden meanings. Great advice.

Having said that, BOB was dismissive with facial expressions about previously working with Mac. He easily could have been more diplomatic but chose not to. It even looked like he had previously thought about, or practiced, his answer. It is hard not to ask why.

It fit the clean slate theme, though.

 

[Sicilian]

Having said that, BOB was dismissive with facial expressions

This is getting into that old "Tom Brady's body language says..." territory that was always talked about that wound up being nothing. And I'm not talking about Brady at the end when something WAS wrong, but in the mid 2010's. People read way too much into things people don't say, or what their face looks like, or whether their shoulders are slumping, or whether they cleared their throat before saying they liked a guy, or whether it 3.2 seconds or 3.3 seconds of a pause before they answered a question. Most of the time, it's just projection: The viewer is uncertain about Mac, so they assume every sign of hesitation in an answer from a coach is also indicative of that uncertainty. It could be, we don't know, but you're always going to see it if you're looking for it.

 

[Love The Drake]

We won’t know now they fill til the conclusion of the draft.
Even then if they don’t draft a QB earlier.
It could signal that Zappe is tied or ahead in their eyes.
We won’t know anything til preseason starts and we see how both QBs fair or one gets traded.

 

[RodThePat]

Yeah he really refused to talk about Mac, except for the one question that asked about how much his pre-existing relationship with Mac helps, just for his answer to basically be “there isn’t one, barely know the guy. I met him once.”

I have to think this throws a little cold water on the “BOB came to New England because he loves Mac Jones” storyline.

That storyline never made any sense and neither did the "why would Bill be pissed at Mac talking to Alabama coaches when BOB was OC there and then they brought BOB in????" stuff. They just don't know each other that much. A whole lot was made of the "Mac Jones TAUGHT Bill O'Brien the Alabama offense" angle after he was drafted, but that report was pretty clearly an attempt to pump the kid up at the time. Obviously not saying O'Brien has anything against Mac or was dismissive of him, that'd be stupid, but he wasn't brought in because of his appreciation for Mac Jones, to specifically coach Mac Jones or because of his relationship to Mac Jones. He's a good coach who knows Bill and the system and he's here now. That's it.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Bob wasn’t going to lie, what would you want him to say. I guess he could of thrown a few platitudes his way, but it really seems like he didn’t have much to do with him.

"Maybe unfortunate looking back, but we really didn't ....." "I now see that it would have been great, but" "Knowing what I now know,..."

It is very easy to say nothing while being honest and positive.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

That storyline never made any sense and neither did the "why would Bill be pissed at Mac talking to Alabama coaches when BOB was OC there and then they brought BOB in????" stuff. They just don't know each other that much. A whole lot was made of the "Mac Jones TAUGHT Bill O'Brien the Alabama offense" angle after he was drafted, but that report was pretty clearly an attempt to pump the kid up at the time. Obviously not saying O'Brien has anything against Mac or was dismissive of him, that'd be stupid, but he wasn't brought in because of his appreciation for Mac Jones, to specifically coach Mac Jones or because of his relationship to Mac Jones. He's a good coach who knows Bill and the system and he's here now. That's it.

If I was taking an OC job in the NFL, I would think about the team's QB situation because i would think that the OC responsibilities include specifically coaching the QB. But, I guess, that is just me.

 

[RodThePat]

If I was taking an OC job in the NFL, I would think about the team's QB situation because i would think that the OC responsibilities include specifically coaching the QB. But, I guess, that is just me.

Considering every team has an OC, would you take that as every one of them being attracted to the QB situation at the time the contract was signed? BOB wanted back into the NFL, he has familiarity with the team, the offense was such garbage last year that pretty much anything he throws out there will be an improvement and considering how strongly Kraft affirmed in the immediate aftermath of the season that changes would be made in the coaching staff, my guess is he made BOB a very attractive offer in order to give fans some assurance the FO wouldn't stand for a repetition of 2022. Why does Mac Jones have to be a huge part of this equation?

I don't get why this fanbase is in such dire need of external validation on Mac Jones. At this stage of his career he is what he is, an okay-ish NFL QB. Let's see how it shakes out, but why would anyone be excited to work with him at this point in his development? What would warrant that?

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Considering every team has an OC, would you take that as every one of them being attracted to the QB situation at the time the contract was signed? BOB wanted back into the NFL, he has familiarity with the team, the offense was such garbage last year that pretty much anything he throws out there will be an improvement and considering how strongly Kraft affirmed in the immediate aftermath of the season that changes would be made in the coaching staff, my guess is he made BOB a very attractive offer in order to give fans some assurance the FO wouldn't stand for a repetition of 2022. Why does Mac Jones have to be a huge part of this equation?

Not a huge part but you said BOB wasn't brought in to specifically coach Mac. I would think the OC does specifically coach the QB. A difference of opinion I guess.

 

[RodThePat]

Not a huge part but you said BOB wasn't brought in to specifically coach Mac. I would think the OC does specifically coach the QB. A difference of opinion I guess.

He was brought in to coach the offense and QBs, which includes coaching Mac Jones. But he wasn't brought in specifically for Mac, he's in because Bill-Kraft believes he'll get more offensive production out of the players they have on the roster. Obviously offense relies a lot on the QB, but it's not like their primary concern is Mac Jones. The offense was garbage, they want to fix it. They don't have the personal attachment to Mac Jones' level of performance this board seems to have, they just want to put more points on the board and make less stupid mistakes.

 

[mike_usagisan]

I still think there's going to be a real camp competition for QB and Mac or Zappe have to win it. That's best for Bill, it's best for BOB and it's best for the team. If BOB comes in and talks up Mac, it makes it that much harder to be a clean slate during camp.

 

[Rob0729]

Well clearly we disagree, and here's where I think you are are off track. It's the view that the Pats had a radically NEW offensive system compared to past years and that fact PROVES that MP/JJ were intended to be here to stay. I KNOW that the language remained the same, just like it has the last 24 years. I know I saw a lot of very familiar plays and route combinations. Was it "different", sure it was, but offenses change and evolve EVERY year, even under a vet OC. I don't see how this proves he was installed as a long term fix.



I think the very fact that they DIDN'T go with Nick Calley is one of the reasons I felt that MP was a place holder. The "reports" that he turned down a chance to be the play caller, shows that HE knew that it was a one year gig and he wouldn't be likely to be calling the plays in 2023. Calley has ambitions for higher positions. He wasn't going to get it here and he left for a parallel position. But I don't disagree. Calley could have been a better one year replacement. But we don't know if he would have accepted it as a one year gig. His not wanting to be the play caller (if that report was true) makes me believe that he wouldn't have taken the job. He knew that BOB was on the way.

I was among those who felt that with all the coaching experience MP had, the knowledge of the detailed offensive concepts he had to know to stop them, PLUS the fact he knew what it took to be a coordinator I thought he COULD be a guy who could fill a short term role. So basically when it was announced, he wasn't a guy who would be my ideal, but he was I guy I THOUGHT could do the job adequately. Well we all know how THAT worked out.

MY guy has always been BOB. His contract situation and Bill relationship with Saban made it impossible for him to be here in 2022, he'd be free in 2023 and Bill rolled the dice with MP/JJ and came up snake eyes. I never believed Patricia was a long term choice as an OC.

Here is a list of the reasons I believe what I do, which I probably should done in the first place.

1. No out of program candidates were even interviewed for the position. They knew the deal.
2. people forget just how many offensive assistants left with Josh. If Bill was gong with a long term OC, don't you think people would be banging down the door for a chance to be here, working with Bill, developing the best 2021 rookie QB, with a pretty solid, if not dynamic roster.
3. As to Calley, NONE of know how Bill felt about him, but he must have liked him to have kept him working for that long. But its one thing to be a position coach and another to be the coordinator. We know that Calley didn't want a one year gig. He knew, likey you should, that BOB was coming
4. You see the 2022 offense was a "radical" departure from what the Pats did in the past. I have an issue with the radical change part,and having it be a logical reason to believe MP was competing for a full time job.

Finally, since I'm done talking about this.....again , BOB IS the new OC. The language WILL remain the same. The offense WILL look different and better than last year (low bar). It will look different from the 2021 offense of Josh. I have NO idea if this improvement will translate into wins, since the schedule is as tough as I have ever seen this year.

I am going to have to agree to disagree, but I will say you got all the Caley info wrong. McDaniels wanted to take Caley and Belichick blocked him from taking him. It was the only coach McDaniels tried to take that Belichick blocked. Word was that McDaniels was going to make him the OC. So obviously Belichick felt highly of Caley.

And reports were that Belichick offered Caley a long term deal, but he refused to make him the OC and Caley opted to stay on his existing contract. It still would have been in Belichick's best interest to make Caley the OC if it was a short term solution until O'Brien was free.

And one more thing, yes it was a very different defense Patricia tried to install. He tried to install a far more vertical defense with a lot of 50-50 balls with a lot more zone blocking. Also, Patricia took away most of the ability for Jones to call an audible and for Jones and Andrews to change the blocking assignments at the line of scrimmage. As the season went on, they started to go back to closer of what it was under McDaniels, but even then it was a different offense.

 

[All3Phases]

In other words, this is what you see in the mirror:

By saying I think he was a good hire? Do you look at anything objectively or just looking for unnecessary praise at every turn?

 

[All3Phases]

Two seasons ago I believed that a great defensive mind could disect anything an offense could put on the field. I also believed that we had a QB that could cover up any miscues that coach might have with his on field play. I believe that BB found out the hard way ( like other teams do when they poach from us), they're not him. PBB did the only thing we could ask from him, make improvements.

They did have that qb, he’s just no longer here

 

[WinstonSmith]

They did have that qb, he’s just no longer here

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[Tunescribe]

By saying I think he was a good hire? Do you look at anything objectively or just looking for unnecessary praise at every turn?

I have no idea what you're talking about or how it might relate to my post.

FYI, I am professionally trained at objectivity so that's a given. I definitely WILL accept necessary praise, not sure about the other kind.

 

[All3Phases]

I have no idea what you're talking about or how it might relate to my post.

FYI, I am professionally trained at objectivity so that's a given. I definitely WILL accept necessary praise, not sure about the other kind.

I’m assuming the meme was me being a wet blanket? Or did I misread that? Then if so, how am I praising the hire but also being a wet blanket?