BB THE GOAT

[Ian]

It's not multivariable calculus. The team sucked on the balance and was irrelevant. Who cares about the 1991-1995 Cleveland Browns? Only people trying to make excuses for BB cratering in his run as a head coach.

The team sucked too after he got fired. At least Parcells left him some fundamental pieces in NE. That coincidentally only worked immediately after Brady became the team's starting quarterback.

Watch the documentary.

And as for "the team sucked too" after he got fired - go back and watch the documentary on the Ravens team that went on to win the Super Bowl and the players on that roster. Many of them came from that regime.

 

[Ian]

@Ian I bet you a beer he won't watch it.

I'd be willing to bet you're probably right. I don't get why @crawhammer is so closed-minded and wouldn't want to be enlightened, especially watching anything by NFL Films. I've watched them even on guys I hate and I always come away with more knowledge. That and they're always well-done.

 

[Vindicate]

It's not multivariable calculus. The team sucked on the balance and was irrelevant. Who cares about the 1991-1995 Cleveland Browns? Only people trying to make excuses for BB cratering in his run as a head coach.

The team sucked too after he got fired. At least Parcells left him some fundamental pieces in NE. That coincidentally only worked immediately after Brady became the team's starting quarterback.

It's not "multivariate calculus", it's also not 0 and 1. It's nuanced. Measuring success requires context. That context informs reasonable expectations. If you're not willing to engage with that then your argument is literally outside of reality and requires a distorted perception to work.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

That dispute was over one pick... Terry Glenn.

The dispute was that pick, but Bobby Grier was the GM and drafted the players, it's why Parcells left, RK wouldn't let him pick the players.

 

[crawhammer]

I didn't say "BB made Parcells," those are your words.

Parcell's hired BB, BB hired Brady... part of being a great manager is hiring talented people.

You're an avowed BB hater and Brady fanboy... everything you post here is tainted with the stink of it.

I'm a "BB hater" but I named him as one of the top 4 all-time head coaches. Explain that?

Yes, I'm a Brady "fanboy." So should be every single Pats fan who celebrated the 19 year dynasty that Brady made possible for their team.

 

[Wozzy]

It's not multivariable calculus. The team sucked on the balance and was irrelevant. Who cares about the 1991-1995 Cleveland Browns? Only people trying to make excuses for BB cratering in his run as a head coach.

The team sucked too after he got fired. At least Parcells left him some fundamental pieces in NE. That coincidentally only worked immediately after Brady became the team's starting quarterback.

You believe in superheroes, reading you discuss Brady is like listening to a child discuss the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus all rolled into one.

You sound like someone who came up during the dynasty and never saw bad football, or understood the difference... they made it look easy, so you attributed all of it to one hero... the QB.

Matt Stafford didn't win a single playoff game in 12 years in Detroit, he comes to the Rams for one season and wins 4 playoff games including the Super Bowl. Then the salary cap and giving away draft picks like candy causes the ground beneath his feet to fall out and suddenly he's on the Lions again getting sacked 4 times a game... but the QB was wholly responsible for winning. Okay...

Don't talk calculous... you're trying to tell us the person most responsible for the winningest franchise in pro football history stumbled and bumbled his way to success and was just lucky to have found a leprechaun. 53 man rosters, hundreds of players filtering in and out, hundreds of scouts, personnel men, trainers, coaches and three phases of football all boils down to one magic player who doesn't need blocking, weapons, defense or special teams.

It's rubbish, total nonsense... this is the ultimate team sport we're talking about. Tom Brady would be the first person to tell you that your opinion, while flattering, is utter garbage.

 

[RobertWeathers]

It's not multivariable calculus.

No Bill is more like a positive integer being applied to a negative one.

The team sucked on the balance and was irrelevant. Who cares about the 1991-1995 Cleveland Browns? Only people trying to make excuses for BB cratering in his run as a head coach.

When you buy a house, sometimes you need to shovel out rocks so you can put down loam and plant grass.

The team sucked too after he got fired.

So thats Bill's fault?

At least Parcells left him some fundamental pieces in NE. That coincidentally only worked immediately after Brady became the team's starting quarterback.

The 2000 Ravens had a multitude of players who you can tie directly to Bill.

Jesus you really struggle dealing with the non-binary....

 

[RobertWeathers]

I'm a "BB hater" but I named him as one of the top 4 all-time head coaches. Explain that?

Dissociative Identity Disorder?

 

[crawhammer]

Settle down. I don't really know why we're doing this. He won six championships as a head coach. Plenty of other "better" coaches with "elite QBs" haven't come close to that. They've won two at best and honestly, plenty of other teams would be happy to hold that distinction. He deserves more credit than you're giving him.

Did I name BB as a top 4 all-time head coach? He's a great HC with a highly decorated career (in NE).

But you can't really compare Brady's impact on a franchise to that of any other quarterback in the history of the league.

I also feel compelled to defend Parcells considering the disrespect he's been given. I get it, IBWTers want to embellish their arguments by diminishing BB's mentor. They're both great but Parcells came first and he made it work with 4 different failing franchises. BB has tremendous legacy but it's undeniably tied entirely to one player.

 

[crawhammer]

I’m not “dumping all over Parcells” I am saying he doesn’t belong in the GOAT argument. I listed his entire post Giant career. I could have listed his entire career, it didn’t measure up either.

And I listed Belichick's record without Brady and you act stupid like you don't have any clue what I'm talking about.

Maybe you're "forgetting" things about Parcells too? He absolutely belongs among the very elite head coaches in NFL history.

 

[Ian]

Did I name BB as a top 4 all-time head coach? He's a great HC with a highly decorated career (in NE).

But you can't really compare Brady's impact on a franchise to that of any other quarterback in the history of the league.

I also feel compelled to defend Parcells considering the disrespect he's been given. I get it, IBWTers want to embellish their arguments by diminishing BB's mentor. They're both great but Parcells came first and he made it work with 4 different failing franchises. BB has tremendous legacy but it's undeniably tied entirely to one player.

It's a ridiculous argument. You can't penalize a guy for making the right decision and getting the most out of that player and the people around him. And you certainly can't judge his post-Brady performance after three seasons and call it a failure. One of the three includes a playoff run with a rookie QB, and the one coming up is essentially the one that's going to begin to determine everything.

You're also the same person who said the 11-5 season without Brady in 2008 was a failure because they won 5 fewer games than the year before - which was when they did something no other NFL team has done in the modern era. But I get that you dismiss that season because it hurts the argument.

Sorry, Tampa this season tells the story. Gotta have a good coach to win in this league, even with the GOAT. They finished below .500 playing in a terrible division and it was so bad it exposed Leftwich and he got fired. Just goes to show the impact Arians had there, and how important it is to have good coaching. You can't rank him #4 and then spend all your time saying how much he stinks. It's just completely disingenuous.

 

[crawhammer]

Again, it's **** logic. That's my point.

Brady chose his destination and didn't make the playoffs for the first time as a pro since 2002 and is 1-2 the playoffs the last 3 years. Is his legacy tarnished? No. 2 years does not tarnish 20 years of excellence.

Same with Bill.

Same with Bill?? Brady has won 2 division titles and a Super Bowl after the split. The results have been very far from "the same." Brady legacy has gone up, way up.

And when did Brady not make the playoffs?? You need to explain/correct that comment.

 

[Ian]

Same with Bill?? Brady has won 2 division titles and a Super Bowl after the split. The results have been very far from "the same." Brady legacy has gone up, way up.

And when did Brady not make the playoffs?? You need to explain/correct that comment.

If he was any other player you'd kill him for the 8-9 finish (ie: Bill went 8-9 this year also - if you recall). Brady won the Division by default because all the teams were so terrible, which is tough to say, but it's also true.

 

[crawhammer]

Prior to 2020, the last time the Browns won a playoff game was in 1994... 26 years prior.

That was when BB was the coach and they had the best (#1) defense in the NFL... hell they didn't even have a great QB, barely "good."

Then the ESPN documentary events happened... you were probably 4 years old.

Facts and history aren't your friend.

lol no one cares about the 1991-1995 Browns. Completely irrelevant. I've seen the documentary (boring!). I don't recall a good reason for 36-44 either. I only read about those here.

 

[Ian]

lol no one cares about the 1991-1995 Browns. Completely irrelevant. I've seen the documentary (boring!). I don't recall a good reason for 36-44 either. I only read about those here.

Last season - there's context as to why Brady failed. Yet somehow, Brady's the only one who deserves context? It's a strange world you live in.

 

[Ian]

lol no one cares about the 1991-1995 Browns. Completely irrelevant. I've seen the documentary (boring!). I don't recall a good reason for 36-44 either. I only read about those here.

And I'm being tough on you because you're being so incredibly stubborn. This is a place to exchange thoughts and opinions and at least have a conversation. With you, on 99% of your posts, everyone else is 100% wrong and you're not. It's not a good thing.

 

[Ian]

You were right @RobertWeathers - he didn't and isn't going to watch it.

 

[crawhammer]

If he was any other player you'd kill him for the 8-9 finish (ie: Bill went 8-9 this year also - if you recall). Brady won the Division by default because all the teams were so terrible, which is tough to say, but it's also true.

I agree. 8-9 is hardly impressive. I watched the Bucs closely, they were shockingly disappointing.

Toilet Bowles was a complete disaster, I won't argue against horrible coaching being an obvious detriment to a team's success.

They literally had no running game and injuries galore. Brady wasn't the problem in Tampa Bay this season. He miraculously won a handful of games with comebacks.

Clearly not his best season of his illustrious career but he did set an NFL record for the most pass attempts and completions in a single season. At age 45 that's pretty impressive. He also set a few other all-time NFL records which means something to those who admire and follow his career closely. 2022 was worth it for Brady's legacy.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

[@SB1 and @crawhammer have entered the chat]

see, what did I tell you guys about crawhammer lol. i’ve been kicking his rear end in every thread, but I’ll refrain in this one and let others do it.

 

[Ian]

I agree. 8-9 is hardly impressive. I watched the Bucs closely, they were shockingly disappointing.

Toilet Bowles was a complete disaster, I won't argue against horrible coaching being an obvious detriment to a team's success.

They literally had no running game and injuries galore.

This is called context.