BB THE GOAT

[TheRainMaker]

Imagine Parcells with an elite QB and in charge of player personnel. The talent he brought to NE from 1993-1996 alone was insane. He brought talent to NYJ and made them respectable without at QB. Then he went to Dallas, brought in a ton of talent and made them respectable. Parcells easily takes that 2007 team to the Super Bowl had Jerry Jones not want full control of player personnel. That's the only reason why Parcells left after the 2006 season - Jerry wanted to be in the spotlight.

Saying that Parcells wasn't important to the Patriots future success is being disingenuous at this point.

 

[crawhammer]

Isn't that the argument for why BB isn't good, what happened in Cleveland was literally a documentary by ESPN about Modell pulling the rug out from under the team's feet. Funny how ample and quickly applied your forgiveness is to anyone not named Belichick.

Belichick was 36-44 in Cleveland. They were irrelevant the entire time he was there. So what's your excuse for 5 years?

 

[Ring 6]

4 competitive franchises from heaps of rubble.

The dynasty Patriots werent built until belichick hit here.
The jets won nothing during or after and neither did Dallas. You seem to think making the playoffs at an average rate is “building” success.

 

[RobertWeathers]

How's that? Brady won a Super Bowl in another uniform with another head coach. He's universally considered the GOAT QB and by most also the GOAT player. When has Brady's legacy not been ascending even in the slightest?

Again, it's **** logic. That's my point.

Brady chose his destination, won a SB but is 1-2 the playoffs the last 3 years. Is his legacy tarnished? No. 2 years of not winning a SB does not tarnish 20 years of excellence.

Same with Bill.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Create something successful while you are there and/or after you leave, depending upon when you were there.

By that definition it's absolutely applies to his stops in NE, NYJ and DAL. All 3 were better off after he arrived.

Miami is 50/50

 

[Guts]

Again, it's **** logic. That's my point.

Brady chose his destination and didn't make the playoffs for the first time as a pro since 2002 and is 1-2 the playoffs the last 3 years. Is his legacy tarnished? No. 2 years does not tarnish 20 years of excellence.

Same with Bill.

He did make the playoffs and won the division

 

[Wozzy]

Belichick was 36-44 in Cleveland. They were irrelevant the entire time he was there. So what's your excuse for 5 years?

Prior to 2020, the last time the Browns won a playoff game was in 1994... 26 years prior.

That was when BB was the coach and they had the best (#1) defense in the NFL... hell they didn't even have a great QB, barely "good."

Then the ESPN documentary events happened... you were probably 4 years old.

Facts and history aren't your friend.

 

[RobertWeathers]

He did make the playoffs and won the division

Overall point is he was QB for a losing team but has zero impact on his legacy.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Belichick was 36-44 in Cleveland. They were irrelevant the entire time he was there. So what's your excuse for 5 years?

You have no sense of context for that Cleveland situation.

 

[crawhammer]

Then he got the head coach fired and won 8 games... it's funny how team sports work.

Firstly Brady didn't get Arians fired. Arians stepped down due to age and health concerns.

Secondly Brady won 5 of those 8 games with game-winning drives and 3 with 9 seconds or less left in the game. He had the worst running game in the NFL and the worst head coach. Yet he still won another division and made his 20th postseason in 21 years. Set an NFL record for most pass attempts and completions at age 45. Brady was remarkable all the way to the end!

 

[Ian]

Belichick was 36-44 in Cleveland. They were irrelevant the entire time he was there. So what's your excuse for 5 years?

Again, you obviously didn't follow that period. Go back and look at what really happened, season-by-season, and realize he rebuilt that team, made it a playoff contender (beat us/Parcells in the postseason), and then got off to a great start the ensuing year and likely would have improved on it had the owner not pulled the rug out from underneath them.

Go back and break it down year by year, and it might start to make some sense to you. And keep the context, instead of discarding it (we've talked about this). If you watched the documentary on that period - you'd understand it. If you haven't seen it, I'd suggest finding it and watching it.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Get out of town! Belichick made Parcells?? Now that's laughable.

Every franchise Parcells took over was a piece of **** when he got there and he turned all of them around.

Parcells won a Super Bowl with Jeff Hostetler and somehow managed to get to another one with Drew Bledsoe.

Parcells had mostly trash at quarterback throughout his head coaching career and he still won multiple divisions, postseason games, and Super Bowls.

Belichick had Brady crash down on Foxboro like a shooting star from the heavens above. And he's only ever won with Brady at quarterback.

Also, Parcells left Belichick with foundational pieces on defense that carried the Patriots Dynasty 1.0 (McGinest, Law, T. Johnson, Milloy, Bruschi).

Parcells was a tremendous team builder, head coach, motivator, and mentor to his assistant coaches including Belichick.

If I remember correctly Parcells didn't shop for the groceries.

 

[Ian]

Firstly Brady didn't get Arians fired. Arians stepped down due to age and health concerns.

Secondly Brady won 5 of those 8 games with game-winning drives and 3 with 9 seconds or less left in the game. He had the worst running game in the NFL and the worst head coach. Yet he still won another division and made his 20th postseason in 21 years. Set an NFL record for most pass attempts and completions at age 45. Brady was remarkable all the way to the end!

Brady finished below .500 and got bounced from the playoffs without Arians because he couldn't do it all.

Coaching matters. Period.

 

[Wozzy]

Teens back in the 90's who don't know what they're talking about... learn something.

Firstly Brady didn't get Arians fired. Arians stepped down due to age and health concerns.

Sure.

Tom retired, Arian's stepped down, then Tom instantly un-retired.

Good grief you're a delusional fanboy.

Secondly Brady won 5 of those 8 games with game-winning drives and 3 with 9 seconds or less left in the game. He had the worst running game in the NFL and the worst head coach. Yet he still won another division and made his 20th postseason in 21 years. Set an NFL record for most pass attempts and completions at age 45. Brady was remarkable all the way to the end!

They won 8 games and decided the run game was unnecessary, something Arians back in 2020 and 2021 made sure was known was necessary. Not surprising when you give your QB the GM and offensive coordinator job... a QB is always going to want to pass... always.

 

[Ian]

Teens back in the 90's who don't know what they're talking about... learn something.



Sure.

Tom retired, Arian's stepped down, then Tom instantly un-retired.

Good grief you're a delusional fanboy.

They won 8 games and decided the run game was unnecessary, something Arians back in 2020 and 2021 made sure was known was necessary. Not surprising when you give your QB the GM and offensive coordinator job... a QB is always going to want to pass... always.

@crawhammer - this will be the best 38 minutes you'll spend tonight. You 100% need to watch this, it was really well done and is incredibly revealing on that entire tenure and situation he dealt with.

 

[Vindicate]

Brady finished below .500 and got bounced from the playoffs without Arians because he couldn't do it all.

Coaching matters. Period.

I don't get how anyone can look at Brady's time with the Bucs and not see that coaching matters. I truly don't get it. It is a glaring example.

 

[Ian]

I don't get how anyone can look at Brady's time with the Bucs and not see that coaching matters. I truly don't get it. It is a glaring example.

Horrible because it got Leftwich fired and absolutely hurt Bowles's stock. Just goes to show how good Arians apparently really was.

 

[RobertWeathers]

@crawhammer - this will be the best 38 minutes you'll spend tonight. You 100% need to watch this, it was really well done and is incredibly revealing on that entire tenure and situation he dealt with.

@Ian I bet you a beer he won't watch it.

 

[crawhammer]

You have no sense of context for that Cleveland situation.

It's not multivariable calculus. The team sucked on the balance and was irrelevant. Who cares about the 1991-1995 Cleveland Browns? Only people trying to make excuses for BB cratering in his run as a head coach.

The team sucked too after he got fired. At least Parcells left him some fundamental pieces in NE. That coincidentally only worked immediately after Brady became the team's starting quarterback.

 

[crawhammer]

If I remember correctly Parcells didn't shop for the groceries.

That dispute was over one pick... Terry Glenn.