Bill Belichick appreciation thread

[zipster9]

Probably already stated, but....

BillB should send a few lobsta's to Lynch & Shanahan for a BIG THANK YOU for #10 to drop to 15th-pick of the 1st round of the 2021 NFL draft.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Has one 7-9 rebuild. People revolt. Weird.

It was fueled by a lot of Brady leaving bitterness.

By contrast, although everybody loves him, obviously only a few saw how special Flutie was. It was as obvious about Doug as it was about Montana @ND. He made his teams winners.

The entire NFL ignored him as he hung around his home in Natick playing pickup basketball for over six months. After rightfully, mercifully firing Berry, Kiam could have signed him and made him the starter for relatively cheap, the stands would have been filled and the team would have at least been in the playoffs.

Most people believe media narratives, like the Patriots were horrible forever. We were not. Even in 1981, that team had lots of talent and lost most games by a close margin. Local and national media treated three (3) seasons from 1990-92 without a quarterback like a quarter century.

If we had gone 0-16 last year, it would have done nothing to diminish Belichick's accomplishments, ability or reputation with me. I know the Cleveland years were hard for Browns fans. I understand. But the difference between a team learning and building, and one that is treading water going nowhere is not always reflected in the yearly records.

The writing was indeed on the wall at the outset of 2001. He had pressure on him. For me, it had already been painfully obvious for years that Bledsoe was only getting older, slower and not developing the football acumen he never possessed in the first place. I trusted that somebody as smart as Belichick had to see that eventually. As with Eason, it took an injury to get him out of there, but once he was, Belichick saw what was going on and acted accordingly, instead of just worshipping Bledsoe like the Browns fans expected him to do with Kosar.

I liked a LOT of what I saw last year. We were competitive in several respects, with some huge, glaring holes in some key positions. After almost thirty years watching Parcells and Belichick coached teams, you'd think at least some fans would get that becoming good often involves some adversity, stumbling blocks and lessons in the form of losses.

 

[Biffins]

Brady just reworked his deal this offseason to keep Tampa's team intact... it doesn't change the immutable fact he signed for 2 years at 50 million guaranteed in 2020. It also doesn't change the fact he pushed a bunch of his cap debt down the road this offseason to keep them intact... or the exact thing the Patriots had been doing for years and were actively avoiding in 2020.

He was a free agent, he chose to leave... stop highlighting your ignorance of the salary cap and move on with your life. Or go to a Buc's forum, I'm sure they'd love to have some fresh voices there... you have until the end of this season for them to still be relevant and they may not be by season's end if the can't keep that defense healthy. Believe it or not Tom's magical abilities don't actually make tackles, sacks or defend the pass.

#fanboys

Brady's contract is cheap for the NFL MVP level play he is providing. That's a fact. He's not even getting top 10 QB money. All those other QBs are also rolling cap hits in the future.

 

[Tunescribe]

It was fueled by a lot of Brady leaving bitterness.

By contrast, although everybody loves him, obviously only a few saw how special Flutie was. It was as obvious about Doug as it was about Montana @ND. He made his teams winners.

The entire NFL ignored him as he hung around his home in Natick playing pickup basketball for over six months. After rightfully, mercifully firing Berry, Kiam could have signed him and made him the starter for relatively cheap, the stands would have been filled and the team would have at least been in the playoffs.

Most people believe media narratives, like the Patriots were horrible forever. We were not. Even in 1981, that team had lots of talent and lost most games by a close margin. Local and national media treated three (3) seasons from 1990-92 without a quarterback like a quarter century.

If we had gone 0-16 last year, it would have done nothing to diminish Belichick's accomplishments, ability or reputation with me. I know the Cleveland years were hard for Browns fans. I understand. But the difference between a team learning and building, and one that is treading water going nowhere is not always reflected in the yearly records.

The writing was indeed on the wall at the outset of 2001. He had pressure on him. For me, it had already been painfully obvious for years that Bledsoe was only getting older, slower and not developing the football acumen he never possessed in the first place. I trusted that somebody as smart as Belichick had to see that eventually. As with Eason, it took an injury to get him out of there, but once he was, Belichick saw what was going on and acted accordingly, instead of just worshipping Bledsoe like the Browns fans expected him to do with Kosar.

I liked a LOT of what I saw last year. We were competitive in several respects, with some huge, glaring holes in some key positions. After almost thirty years watching Parcells and Belichick coached teams, you'd think at least some fans would get that becoming good often involves some adversity, stumbling blocks and lessons in the form of losses.

BTW, what color jersey did Flutie wear? I'm surprised you didn't answer that before someone had to ask.

 

[zipster9]

Ok. BillB, now that you have a potential QB of the future, you need to give him better weapons.

Get a #1 WR in free agency.

Allen Robinson	WR	470
Chris Godwin	WR	610
Davante Adams	WR	632

Draft one of Mac Jones binkies ....
or Alabama WR Jameson Williams.

Pros:​

Leinweber: Great route-runner who has the tremendous foot speed and ankle flexion allowing him to change directions at high speeds. Metchie sells his routes, keeping his head and pads square. He can separate on all three levels from the outside or on the slot, getting in and out of breaks very suddenly. From off he is nearly impossible to guard as he runs on the toes of corners and explodes out of his breaks. Tracks the ball very well and is not phased by traffic, coming down with it through contact. Plucks it naturally out of the air and turns upfield right after securing the catch. Has plenty of speed to run past cornerbacks and be a consistent vertical threat. Metchie is shifty and physical after the catch, making defenders miss and lowering the shoulder to finish runs. He beats press with his feet and lateral agility. Competes and has success as a blocker on the perimeter.


:

 

[Wozzy]

Brady's contract is cheap for the NFL MVP level play he is providing. That's a fact. He's not even getting top 10 QB money. All those other QBs are also rolling cap hits in the future.

What Brady did this offseason has nothing to do with the fact he signed for 50 million in 2020. Nor does it change the mathematical fact that by 2020 the Patriots had 1/4 of their cap used up on 72 players who didn't play for the team anymore and one cornerback in Gilmore. They had borrowed from Gilmore's contract in 2018/2019 and pushed a large portion of his cap debt into future years to sign players at the trade deadline. They did similar deals with Tom, Gronk, Cannon, Chung and others. Gilmore's cap debt in 2020 was more than Brady, AB and Bennett's dead cap hit combined. In 2021 Gilmore had the largest cap hit on the team again despite the team spending 200 million on expensive free agents. The Pats were in "cap hell" as it's often called.

Yes, they could have bent over backwards to sign Brady, borrowed yet again from the future... the team around him right up until he retired would have sucked and you fanboys would complain that BB wasn't doing enough to help him but that doesn't matter to you... mainly because you have zero working knowledge of the salary cap. There's no tax shelter for salary cap debt, for every dollar spent, a dollar has to be accounted for. From 2014-2019 the Patriots did what they had avoided for decades prior, they borrowed from future cap to "win now." The result was 4 Super Bowls and 3 wins. BB said this specifically in 2020 around midseason on Sirius Radio. "This is kind of the year that we've taken to adjust our cap from the spending that we've had in accumulation of prior years." - BB

You weren't listening or simply didn't understand.

 

[Wozzy]

Ok. BillB, now that you have a potential QB of the future, you need to give him better weapons.

Get a #1 WR in free agency.

Allen Robinson	WR	470
Chris Godwin	WR	610
Davante Adams	WR	632

Draft one of Mac Jones binkies ....
or Alabama WR Jameson Williams.

Pros:​

Leinweber: Great route-runner who has the tremendous foot speed and ankle flexion allowing him to change directions at high speeds. Metchie sells his routes, keeping his head and pads square. He can separate on all three levels from the outside or on the slot, getting in and out of breaks very suddenly. From off he is nearly impossible to guard as he runs on the toes of corners and explodes out of his breaks. Tracks the ball very well and is not phased by traffic, coming down with it through contact. Plucks it naturally out of the air and turns upfield right after securing the catch. Has plenty of speed to run past cornerbacks and be a consistent vertical threat. Metchie is shifty and physical after the catch, making defenders miss and lowering the shoulder to finish runs. He beats press with his feet and lateral agility. Competes and has success as a blocker on the perimeter.


:

What's the obsession with weapons?

Entering the Titan's game, the Pat's offense was ranked 8th in scoring. They just paid Agholor, Bourne, two great TE's in Henry and Smith...

They have big free agents who will need replacing or re-signing in DMC, Hightower, JC Jackson, Trent Brown, Adrian Phillips, Ted Karras, Matt Slater, James White, Brandon Bolden, Nick Folk, Jamie Collins, Jakob Johnson, Jawhaun Bentley, Jakobi Meyers and Gunner... weapons are the least of their concerns... and they should retain their own weapons like All Pro Punt Returner in Gunner and leading slot receiver in Meyers.

 

[zipster9]

What's the obsession with weapons?

Entering the Titan's game, the Pat's offense was ranked 8th in scoring. They just paid Agholor, Bourne, two great TE's in Henry and Smith...

They have big free agents who will need replacing or re-signing in DMC, Hightower, JC Jackson, Trent Brown, Adrian Phillips, Ted Karras, Matt Slater, James White, Brandon Bolden, Nick Folk, Jamie Collins, Jakob Johnson, Jawhaun Bentley, Jakobi Meyers and Gunner... weapons are the least of their concerns... and they should retain their own weapons like All Pro Punt Returner in Gunner and leading slot receiver in Meyers.

Don't forget N'Keal Harry....

 

[Wozzy]

Don't forget N'Keal Harry....

He's signed through 2022 and making peanuts.

Sometimes in order to make an omelette you need to break some eggs.

If the omelette on the plate is the best damn one I've had in years, I don't criticize how the chef made it.

 

[jimnance]

BTW, what color jersey did Flutie wear? I'm surprised you didn't answer that before someone had to ask.

With the number of deceased equines being flogged in this thread( including APF's, among many others), you could start a freakin' rodeo.

 

[JayNM]

Ok. BillB, now that you have a potential QB of the future, you need to give him better weapons.

Get a #1 WR in free agency.

Allen Robinson	WR	470
Chris Godwin	WR	610
Davante Adams	WR	632

Draft one of Mac Jones binkies ....
or Alabama WR Jameson Williams.

Pros:​

Leinweber: Great route-runner who has the tremendous foot speed and ankle flexion allowing him to change directions at high speeds. Metchie sells his routes, keeping his head and pads square. He can separate on all three levels from the outside or on the slot, getting in and out of breaks very suddenly. From off he is nearly impossible to guard as he runs on the toes of corners and explodes out of his breaks. Tracks the ball very well and is not phased by traffic, coming down with it through contact. Plucks it naturally out of the air and turns upfield right after securing the catch. Has plenty of speed to run past cornerbacks and be a consistent vertical threat. Metchie is shifty and physical after the catch, making defenders miss and lowering the shoulder to finish runs. He beats press with his feet and lateral agility. Competes and has success as a blocker on the perimeter.


:

Oh myyy, can you imagine Allen Robinson in this team with Bourne and Meyers. Ohh wee, he would fit us like a glove, a true #1 receiver (Agholor's place) and a red zone big target wr (supposedly Harry's)

Ive been on the record saying that a SB caliber team doesnt need a big-bugs WR, buuut having a true #1 guy for Mac Rookie year is a thing that is more important than maybe 20 years ago when Brady started

Also, Im in the "dont draft a WR club". **** it. Just dont do it

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I’ve felt this Bill-Tom animosity ended with the Patriots-Bucs game. Both of them went out of their way to publicly clear the air, after some initial jawing. The Wickersham “bombshell” was a complete dud with nothing at all to fuel the fire.

Tom has an ideal situation in Tampa Bay to finish his career with a well built team of veterans, many with a few years left for their legacy.

Bill now has an ideal situation of having a solid (at least) QB who will be on a rookie contract for three more years, and the Patriots have a real shot.

There’s plenty to argue about, but it won’t change the past. I’m enjoying the **** out of watching both teams every week. And my “Give A Fck” meter will remain at zero if anyone has a problem with that.

Watching Tom and Bill succeed independently is the ultimate F YOU to the league and the other fanbases. So we should chill the fck out about the unlikely chance the Bucs-Patriots Super Bowl apocalypse will destroy the universe and just sit back with middle fingers pointed up.

 

[BUSTAMOVE]

I have no doubt at all the Pats would win ring #7 this year if they kept Brady. He's going to win MVP and he is the best QB in football hands down. But what's done is done.

We're good right now of course but how good is still TBD. Beat the Bills next Monday night in their place and then it's time to think we might be watching something special happening here.

I agree that Brady is the best
If we kept Brady we would not have this exact team.
Brady would be making at least 20 million more than what Mac is making
20 million means many players on the team now would not have been signed

 

[BUSTAMOVE]

 

[Tunescribe]

Obviously photoshopped. It never happened.

 

[rochrist]

Ok. BillB, now that you have a potential QB of the future, you need to give him better weapons.

Get a #1 WR in free agency.

Allen Robinson	WR	470
Chris Godwin	WR	610
Davante Adams	WR	632

Draft one of Mac Jones binkies ....
or Alabama WR Jameson Williams.

Pros:​

Leinweber: Great route-runner who has the tremendous foot speed and ankle flexion allowing him to change directions at high speeds. Metchie sells his routes, keeping his head and pads square. He can separate on all three levels from the outside or on the slot, getting in and out of breaks very suddenly. From off he is nearly impossible to guard as he runs on the toes of corners and explodes out of his breaks. Tracks the ball very well and is not phased by traffic, coming down with it through contact. Plucks it naturally out of the air and turns upfield right after securing the catch. Has plenty of speed to run past cornerbacks and be a consistent vertical threat. Metchie is shifty and physical after the catch, making defenders miss and lowering the shoulder to finish runs. He beats press with his feet and lateral agility. Competes and has success as a blocker on the perimeter.


:

His weapons are fine. How about you give him a chance to learn how to use them?

 

[DropKickFlutie]

He's signed through 2022 and making peanuts.

Sometimes in order to make an omelette you need to break some eggs.

If the omelette on the plate is the best damn one I've had in years, I don't criticize how the chef made it.

That's not the right analogy. It's a Michelin chef who won multiple years and then had a couple years of buying really crummy expensive ingredients that resulted in later pain from 2019 onward. Thankfully the chef brought in other guys (Wolf, Groh) and the new groceries are good again now.

.

 

[n1997y]

Ignoring the personal feelings that seem to have some impact on the decision, staying with Brady was not feasible without some sort of compromise. The fact that Brady has continued to defy father time is not only amazing, it put the team in an awkward position. For Brady to stay with the Patriots during a reload cycle, he would have had to take less money for a short amount of term and be willing to work with young teammates. With the expectations of top dollar and term, the team could not invest in new talent keeping Brady. Best case this would have resulted in repeating 2018 and delaying the inevitable. Brady going to a solid veteran team with talent and cap space for his last years while freeing cash and creating the opportunity for BB to build dynasty phase 3 is a win win situation for all.

Brady would be cashing huge checks while throwing to a far less talented roster than NE currently finances thanks to the near total reset.
And the cap issues that plagued the team after 2019 would not have disappeared, not with Tompa demanding $25 mill/season

There is why keeping Brady was never a possibility. Tom had decided he would not be staying in New England, because he wanted to get paid full market value after taking the hometown discount for so many years, and he wanted a top flight array of talent at the skill positions around him. Look at how he went into a funk over losing his best weapon when AB crazied his way out of town. No way Tom was going to be throwing to a far less talented roster, he was already not throwing to anybody who wasn’t up to his personal standards. It was clearly time for him to move on. Nothing personal, just business.

 

[Wozzy]

That's not the right analogy. It's a Michelin chef who won multiple years and then had a couple years of buying really crummy expensive ingredients that resulted in later pain from 2019 onward. Thankfully the chef brought in other guys (Wolf, Groh) and the new groceries are good again now.

.

In 2017 they deferred from the draft, traded away picks, traded for vet players like Cooks. Not picking players isn’t a bad draft if rookies aren’t going to make your vet laden team. They made the Super Bowl in 2017 and won it in 2018 in case people forgot. They didn’t start using their draft capital until 2018, the majority of young contributors on this roster in 2021 were drafted in the last four years.

The 2021 New England Patriot's roster in order of age (youngest to oldest) players acquired as rookies in blue:

Cameron McGrone New England Patriots / 5th / 177th pick / 2021
Dalton Keene New England Patriots / 3rd / 101st pick / 2020
Ronnie Perkins New England Patriots / 3rd / 96th pick / 2021
Christian Barmore New England Patriots / 2nd / 38th pick / 2021
Josh Uche New England Patriots / 2nd / 60th pick / 2020
Quinn Nordin UDFA / Patriots
Joshuah Bledsoe New England Patriots / 6th / 188th pick / 2021
Shaun Wade Baltimore Ravens / 5th / 160th pick / 2021
J.J. Taylor UDFA / Patriots
Rhamondre Stevenson New England Patriots / 4th / 120th pick / 2021
Mac Jones New England Patriots / 1st / 15th pick / 2021
Yasir Durant UDFA / KC
Myles Bryant UDFA / Patriots
Anfernee Jennings New England Patriots / 3rd / 87th pick / 2020
Joejuan Williams New England Patriots / 2nd / 45th pick / 2019
Michael Onwenu New England Patriots / 6th / 182nd pick / 2020
N'Keal Harry New England Patriots / 1st / 32nd pick / 2019
Damien Harris New England Patriots / 3rd / 87th pick / 2019
Jake Bailey New England Patriots / 5th / 163rd pick / 2019
Devin Asiasi New England Patriots / 3rd / 91st pick / 2020
Terez Hall UDFA / Patriots
Byron Cowart New England Patriots / 5th / 159th pick / 2019
Jahlani Tavai Detroit Lions / 2nd / 43rd pick / 2019
Jarrett Stidham New England Patriots / 4th / 133rd pick / 2019
Gunner Olszewski UDFA / Patriots
Jakobi Meyers UDFA / Patriots
Kyle Dugger New England Patriots / 2nd / 37th pick / 2020
Yodny Cajuste New England Patriots / 3rd / 101st pick / 2019
Ja'Whaun Bentley New England Patriots / 5th / 143rd pick / 2018
Raekwon McMillan Miami Dolphins / 2nd / 54th pick / 2017
Troy Fumagalli Denver Broncos / 5th / 156th pick / 2018
Isaiah Wynn New England Patriots / 1st / 23rd pick / 2018
Chase Winovich New England Patriots / 3rd / 77th pick / 2019
Jonnu Smith Tennessee Titans / 3rd / 100th pick / 2017
J.C. Jackson UDFA / Patriots
Justin Herron New England Patriots / 6th / 195th pick / 2020
Kendrick Bourne UDFA / 49ers
Deatrich Wise New England Patriots / 4th / 131st pick / 2017
Calvin Munson UDFA / NYG
Jalen Mills Philadelphia Eagles / 7th / 233rd pick / 2016
Jakob Johnson UDFA / Patriots
Hunter Henry San Diego Chargers / 2nd / 35th pick / 2016
Davon Godchaux Miami Dolphins / 5th / 178th pick / 2017
Jonathan Jones UDFA / Patriots
Shaq Mason New England Patriots / 4th / 131st pick / 2015
Brandon King UDFA / Patriots
Ted Karras New England Patriots / 6th / 221st pick / 2016
Trent Brown San Francisco 49ers / 7th / 244th pick / 2015
Nelson Agholor Philadelphia Eagles / 1st / 20th pick / 2015
James White New England Patriots / 4th / 130th pick / 2014
Harvey Langi UDFA / Patriots
Adrian Phillips UDFA / Chargers
Matt Judon Baltimore Ravens / 5th / 146th pick / 2016
Carl Davis Baltimore Ravens / 3rd / 90th pick / 2015
Joe Cardona New England Patriots / 5th / 166th pick / 2015
David Andrews UDFA / Patriots
Henry Anderson Indianapolis Colts / 3rd / 93rd pick / 2015
Kyle Van Noy Detroit Lions / 2nd / 40th pick / 2014
Dont'a Hightower New England Patriots / 1st / 25th pick / 2012
Lawrence Guy Green Bay Packers / 7th / 233rd pick / 2011
Brandon Bolden UDFA / Patriots
Justin Bethel Arizona Cardinals / 6th / 177th pick / 2012
Jamie Collins New England Patriots / 2nd / 52nd pick / 2013
Cody Davis UDFA / Rams
Devin McCourty New England Patriots / 1st / 27th pick / 2010
Matthew Slater New England Patriots / 5th / 153rd pick / 2008
Brian Hoyer UDFA / Patriots
Nick Folk Dallas Cowboys / 6th / 178th pick / 2007

Yeah... it's apparent the Patriots struggle to find rookie talent, especially recently.

Insert eye-roll here…

 

[Steve102]

Not sure what you mean...what exactly is the argument that supports Brady, and what is the argument that supports Belichick? Please elaborate and feel free to exaggerate your points for theatric effect.