Content Post Idle thoughts: the "slow your roll" edition

[p8ryts]

Mac isn't perfect and isn't the Tom Brady end product but he's just a rookie and looks so poised, accurate and perceptive. He has some things to work on sure. Reading the unblocked player before the snap, calling protections, and rushes a throw (not very often). Whatever he does I will remember he is still a rookie and I will be extremely thankful that he is OUR rookie.

 

[Bill Lee]

I don't get the Jonnu bashing at all.

I don't get the way some people seem to feel personally offended by various player transactions.

Some work out OK, some work out worse than hoped, some work out better than hoped.

Some people seem to get a lot of glee out of focusing on the ones that work out worse than hoped, and seem to ignore the ones that worked out better than hoped. They also seem to ignore the rise of the team as a whole via having a lot more good than not as good transactions because that works against pointing out what a "disaster" various individual player transactions have been.

They seem to get a perverse joy out of being able to say a transaction is/was bad. They seem to heighten their thrill by not allowing for any possibility for a player to improve as they get healthier or more comfortable with the environment or more mature.

With Jonnu I'd say he's underperforming relative to salary and my own expectations, but I can't say why. It could be as simple as Henry is outperforming him. It could be nagging injuries. It could be changes in the scheme where we go with more RBs than TEs so he doesn't get as many opportunities as we/he would like, we are seeing the FB on the field a lot and not in 2TEs as much.

IMO he's a Patriot, and I'll let things play out a lot more before I go negative on the situation.

 

[Rob0729]

I don't get the way some people seem to feel personally offended by various player transactions.

Some work out OK, some work out worse than hoped, some work out better than hoped.

Some people seem to get a lot of glee out of focusing on the ones that work out worse than hoped, and seem to ignore the ones that worked out better than hoped. They also seem to ignore the rise of the team as a whole via having a lot more good than not as good transactions because that works against pointing out what a "disaster" various individual player transactions have been.

They seem to get a perverse joy out of being able to say a transaction is/was bad. They seem to heighten their thrill by not allowing for any possibility for a player to improve as they get healthier or more comfortable with the environment or more mature.

With Jonnu I'd say he's underperforming relative to salary and my own expectations, but I can't say why. It could be as simple as Henry is outperforming him. It could be nagging injuries. It could be changes in the scheme where we go with more RBs than TEs so he doesn't get as many opportunities as we/he would like, we are seeing the FB on the field a lot and not in 2TEs as much.

IMO he's a Patriot, and I'll let things play out a lot more before I go negative on the situation.

Don't lump me into this group. I think he has been a bust of a pick thus far based on what he was paid and his production, but I am holding out hope for him to turn it around. I don't hate the guy and I am rooting for him to succeed. But pointing out that, based on money spent and expected production from the guy, he has not remotely lived up to either thus far is a valid criticism of the guy.

And I also think overall the Pats have had a successful free agent class. I am the guy who has been saying that they need to give Bourne more things to do because he seems to always over perform when he gets the ball.

I am not offended by Smith at all.

 

[Bill Lee]

Don't lump me into this group. I think he has been a bust of a pick thus far based on what he was paid and his production, but I am holding out hope for him to turn it around. I don't hate the guy and I am rooting for him to succeed. But pointing out that, based on money spent and expected production from the guy, he has not remotely lived up to either thus far is a valid criticism of the guy.

And I also think overall the Pats have had a successful free agent class. I am the guy who has been saying that they need to give Bourne more things to do because he seems to always over perform when he gets the ball.

I am not offended by Smith at all.

I was not thinking of any one person or situation in my initial comments.

Thank you for the comments clarifying your position.

I think we are in broad agreement.

I just think "thus far" is too small a sample size to draw conclusions on Smith.

He's pretty much uncuttable this season and next, so let's just see how things play out.

 

[sb1]

Speaking of slow your roll… greatest we’ve EVER seen from a quarterback? Hoooo boy. Loving what we’re seeing so far but let’s see what the narrative is after the reality check of these next few games.

 

[long distance]

Godchaux was really struggling early in the year and getting blown off the line quite a bit. All the people in the media who watch this stuff in the all 22s like Bedard pointed it out. He has improved in recent weeks, but he had a career game on Thursday. He has been a disappointment until recently.

And I am not giving up on Smith, but right now he has been a bust signing. That is indisputable.

Ok, i'll admit it: I am not Bedard (so at least i have this going for me in this life).
But: i do watch all-22 although one does not need to watch all-22 to watch DL.

God was the only solid DT early in the season outside Barmore who came in mainly on rushing downs. Guy was struggling, Davis was lost after promising preseason, and that did not help God look good trying to hold the line sometimes on his own. He had a couple of injuries, missing some practice and came back stronger. He looks better now bc first Guy started significantly improving and lately Davis started showing his potential, plus of course the Barmore factor who plays more snaps and attracts more attention than early in the season. God looked like a monster vs ATL also bc their OL is one of worst in NFL. So the good and the bad usually come with some context.


This is his main job:




This is week 1. Can't make my own clips atm so im borrowing:




week 3:




dont know what your timeline is for “early in the year“ and “recently“ but here vs good DAL OL:



@ CAR:





idk what your expectations were/are but he is much better than anyone Pats recently had at NT outside that one Allan Branch season imo.

And I am not giving up on Smith, but right now he has been a bust signing. That is indisputable.

I understand people are not happy with Jonnu so far. Add me to the list, although i do acknowledge playing through injuries after missing much of preseason on a new team is not easy.

But you cant call a signing a bust in the middle of season 1 of the 4y deal (of which 3 are basically guaranteed) - for a player that is on the field every time he can play.

 

[NFLmac]

Ok, i'll admit it: I am not Bedard (so at least i have this going for me in this life).
But: i do watch all-22 although one does not need to watch all-22 to watch DL.

God was the only solid DT early in the season outside Barmore who came in mainly on rushing downs. Guy was struggling, Davis was lost after promising preseason, and that did not help God look good trying to hold the line sometimes on his own. He had a couple of injuries, missing some practice and came back stronger. He looks better now bc first Guy started significantly improving and lately Davis started showing his potential, plus of course the Barmore factor who plays more snaps and attracts more attention than early in the season. God looked like a monster vs ATL also bc their OL is one of worst in NFL. So the good and the bad usually come with some context.


This is his main job:




This is week 1. Can't make my own clips atm so im borrowing:




week 3:




dont know what your timeline is for “early in the year“ and “recently“ but here vs good DAL OL:



@ CAR:





idk what your expectations were/are but he is much better than anyone Pats recently had at NT outside that one Allan Branch season imo.




I understand people are not happy with Jonnu so far. Add me to the list, although i do acknowledge playing through injuries after missing much of preseason on a new team is not easy.

But you cant call a signing a bust in the middle of season 1 of the 4y deal (of which 3 are basically guaranteed) - for a player that is on the field every time he can play.

Thanks for the very informative and interesting post, LD.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

I think you are being trigger happy and superficial in these assessments.

Yea we got to stop peddling narratives like this.

"I'm not watching and have no idea myself but other people said this, so" ...

Literally the same talking points about God all year. With respect it's just lazy.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

I don't get the Jonnu bashing at all.

The largest part of it is the disappointing pass-catching production (1 game over 50 yards, 52 against the JETE), and it seems doubtful that he's supposed to only block, though I don't know if he's somehow the greatest blocking TE in the world. (I don't seek out all-22s to make such assessments, because I think there are guys who are better at such assessments on the coaching staff.) But I don't think that's the deal - we picked him up after a career year as a pass catching TE on a 4 year deal for pretty significant coin. I don't know what guys are making as blocking TEs who dont add pass-catching production, but 12.5M APY (50M/4 years, 31M guaranteed) seems steep. We bought high and paid a ton up-front. The number of targets available is not like under Brady (without Thunder & Lightning & Thunder & Lightning at RB), so there is that. Patience will be key, but there might just be plain old misses in that giant spending spree - tactical losses within a promising grand strategy.

I don't get the way some people seem to feel personally offended by various player transactions.

Some work out OK, some work out worse than hoped, some work out better than hoped.

Some people seem to get a lot of glee out of focusing on the ones that work out worse than hoped, and seem to ignore the ones that worked out better than hoped. They also seem to ignore the rise of the team as a whole via having a lot more good than not as good transactions because that works against pointing out what a "disaster" various individual player transactions have been.

That's always annoying - would-be mediots are worse than the real thing.

They seem to get a perverse joy out of being able to say a transaction is/was bad. They seem to heighten their thrill by not allowing for any possibility for a player to improve as they get healthier or more comfortable with the environment or more mature.

With Jonnu I'd say he's underperforming relative to salary and my own expectations, but I can't say why. It could be as simple as Henry is outperforming him. It could be nagging injuries. It could be changes in the scheme where we go with more RBs than TEs so he doesn't get as many opportunities as we/he would like, we are seeing the FB on the field a lot and not in 2TEs as much.

IMO he's a Patriot, and I'll let things play out a lot more before I go negative on the situation.

This is a good - and mature - take.

People's minds are set to instant gratification, instant judgment, instant anything that makes them feel like a smart caller to a talk radio show. We're dummmmmmmb though (at our "argue on a BBS" level)

I'm sure people who are smarter have some concern - but what about, and how much, is likely not what we see from the local bile hydrants. Example - maybe it's "we knew his shoulder is dinged, we want to see what havoc these backs can wreck, he seems to have some use in the backfield too... hope he rises to the occasion when the backs do get stuffed, but for now don't have a stroke." Or maybe they're in the bowels of Gillette already thinking "OMG this guy... not. as. advertised."

Thing is, with that front-loaded deal, we better HOPE that's not it LOL... but if anybody wants to whine how we have to unload him, good luck on that strategy. Expensive way to make room.

Part of what we're seeing is "here we are, you want to see how much Mac can handle, stop our run game. Oh you can't? Okies, that then."

Last game we actually saw N'keal Harry come out of the witness protection program for a few plays, so I think there's an effort being made now to be ready for the day he has to make sure to use every weapon.

Eh, who knows, I just like when the silver helmet guys go the right direction on the field.

 

[Bill Lee]

The largest part of it is the disappointing pass-catching production (1 game over 50 yards, 52 against the JETE), and it seems doubtful that he's supposed to only block, though I don't know if he's somehow the greatest blocking TE in the world. (I don't seek out all-22s to make such assessments, because I think there are guys who are better at such assessments on the coaching staff.) But I don't think that's the deal - we picked him up after a career year as a pass catching TE on a 4 year deal for pretty significant coin. I don't know what guys are making as blocking TEs who dont add pass-catching production, but 12.5M APY (50M/4 years, 31M guaranteed) seems steep. We bought high and paid a ton up-front. The number of targets available is not like under Brady (without Thunder & Lightning & Thunder & Lightning at RB), so there is that. Patience will be key, but there might just be plain old misses in that giant spending spree - tactical losses within a promising grand strategy.

I think pretty much all the skill position FA acquisitions were over-pays, maybe not Bourne if he blossoms some more. Yet it doesn't concern me very much. Pats had more cap space than most, Kraft was OK with a high FA budget. Supply was strong, demand was weak, BB got to pick his favorites at the grocery store.

BB tends to value TE a lot, going back to Mark Bavaro, Ben Coates, Ben Watson and Gronk. He found two he wanted, he had the cash and the cap to spend, he pulled the trigger. At least he's getting one to produce at a high level, and there's still time on the second one. Better than spending the two picks on Keene and Asiasi and ending up with neither being an impact player.

 

[SlowGettingUp]

They played Godchaux at DE some snaps - not sure how many.

This sack he was over the left guard:

Davon Godchaux keeps sack party going with Pats' fourth QB takedown of night

New England Patriots Davon Godchaux keeps sack party going with Pats' fourth quarterback takedown of night.

www.patriots.com

 

[Kasmir]

I'm more worried about Jared Allen's legs. He has played well against us and has a nasty habit of breaking contain at the worst possible moment. I think the game will be a nail biter.

Dugger will spy him

 

[Kasmir]

I don't get the way some people seem to feel personally offended by various player transactions.

Some work out OK, some work out worse than hoped, some work out better than hoped.

Some people seem to get a lot of glee out of focusing on the ones that work out worse than hoped, and seem to ignore the ones that worked out better than hoped. They also seem to ignore the rise of the team as a whole via having a lot more good than not as good transactions because that works against pointing out what a "disaster" various individual player transactions have been.

They seem to get a perverse joy out of being able to say a transaction is/was bad. They seem to heighten their thrill by not allowing for any possibility for a player to improve as they get healthier or more comfortable with the environment or more mature.

With Jonnu I'd say he's underperforming relative to salary and my own expectations, but I can't say why. It could be as simple as Henry is outperforming him. It could be nagging injuries. It could be changes in the scheme where we go with more RBs than TEs so he doesn't get as many opportunities as we/he would like, we are seeing the FB on the field a lot and not in 2TEs as much.

IMO he's a Patriot, and I'll let things play out a lot more before I go negative on the situation.

This has been a spectacular free agent group in terms of impact. Of course would like more out of Jonnu, and too bad about Henry Anderson, but we've gotten a ton of good snaps out of this year's free agent class.

 

[Patriot Missile]

Personally, I’m looking forward to this 4 game stretch. Don’t care what their ranked against this or that. All we know is they are formidable foes who they have to play. I want to see the run game crush the good teams as well as the bad ones. I want the pass game to open up the run game and vice versa regardless of the competition. I want the defense to shut down Allen and Diggs, Confuse Tannehill into many mistakes, shut down whoever they try to patch up for Henry. Hold Taylor to pedestrian numbers etc. by the end of this series of games I want the NFL on notice that this team is alive and well and that you have to bring your best game to have a chance against them. If the Pats are not ready then they aren’t ready. Simple, load up and get back to work if thats the case. Seems like and extremely accelerated rebuild.

 

[Toofy]

Can we use screens to Jonnu. He could be effective there.or fake a block and do a seam route while Mac steps back to land the ball to him...?

 

[TheRainMaker]

1. I was trying to think about who RStevenson reminds me of and it hit me this morning. Leveon Bell.

That’s an insult to Rham. Bell was overrated who relied on his stellar O-line to escort him until he saw a hole that was acceptable to him. Bell’s foot shuffling style doesn’t work when the O-line isn’t elite as seen in NY and elsewhere. Bill also thought he was overrated as his game plan in 2016 was to have his front 7 stay in their lane as Bell would eventually run into them.

Rham is patient, but doesn’t overdue it like Bell who explodes through the first crease he sees. Ditto with Harris.

 

[zydecochris]

3. I posted the other day that Mac has the same athletic ability (speed and short area quickness) as Russell Wilson, one of the more elusive QB's in the league. Clearly Mac doesn't have the instincts and experience to use those gifts. Hopefully that will come over the next few years (or few weeks even). This is a part of his game that he needs to work

Great post Ken, even by your usual high standards. Responding to 3), I’ve complained before about posters who claim to be instant experts on everything instead of listening to actual experts with training and expertise, I am the type that goes to a surgeon for surgery insight, a dentist for dental advice, Palm Beach Pats Fan for Chemisty/Biochemistry insight, and PWP for Engineering/Tech insight

I figure to be consistent and get some insight on a theory of mine from the only Board member with actual extensive football coaching experience (you of course). I’m not discounting what other board members have learned on their own, but I’ll go to the expert FIRST.

Thus I would like to zero in on 3, something that you have alluded to several times before. It goes contrary to how I think of things, but since you actually have football expertise I am beginning to think I have been wrong (…Note: for those posters who have -evidently- never been taught the meaning of “I am/have been wrong”, PM me and I’ll explain the meaning of this old phrase which has recently fallen out fashion).

I figured (previously at least) that whether or not they could run fast, guys like Russell Wilson, and Brady and Brees, we’re simply superb natural athletes who could have been professional Hall of Famers in OTHER sports (Wilson and Brady in baseball, Brees in tennis). And despite how much I LOVE Mac, I simply haven’t thought he was the same level of natural athlete (Mac was an excellent tennis player in high school but not regularly beating future Tennis Hall of Famers like Brees did).

But, you have posted many times that because of Mac’s speed and short area quickness, he can LEARN the type of elusiveness as Wilson. Is that your experience from your long football and coaching experience, that scrambling ability and elusiveness can be taught if the natural speed and short area quickness is there? I am not challenging your assertion (you are the one that would know as a former coach), but I would love to hear you elaborate and talk on this subject some time, whether in this thread or sometime in the future, I would find it to be fascinating. Certainly if Mac could become a great scrambler in addition to all his other strengths that would be exciting

 

[oldrover]

Idle thoughts: the "slow your roll" edition​

Ken, I love the content of your posts. But this title is a head scratcher. I can't speak for anyone else here, but I'm a FAN. That means I get enthusiastic about my team. If I want to get SUPER enthusiastic... what's wrong with that?

I go to a Jax wings place for the Sunday 1pm games, and there's a guy there who yells out after every conversion, "That's another Patriots..." ...and we all yell, "FIRST DOWN!" Should we be slowing our roll there?

I love ya, buddy, but "fan" is short for "fanatic", and when that comes to the Pats, that's what I am. And I don't see anything wrong with that. JMHO. Go Pats!!!!!

 

[PatsFanInVa]

I think pretty much all the skill position FA acquisitions were over-pays, maybe not Bourne if he blossoms some more. Yet it doesn't concern me very much. Pats had more cap space than most, Kraft was OK with a high FA budget. Supply was strong, demand was weak, BB got to pick his favorites at the grocery store.

BB tends to value TE a lot, going back to Mark Bavaro, Ben Coates, Ben Watson and Gronk. He found two he wanted, he had the cash and the cap to spend, he pulled the trigger. At least he's getting one to produce at a high level, and there's still time on the second one. Better than spending the two picks on Keene and Asiasi and ending up with neither being an impact player.

I am a firm believer that they think 2021 contracts will be extra cheap in the future rear-view. They're both paid more APY than Gronk - keeping in mind Gronk made the deal we're talking about in 2013 or 2014.

They're still numbers 5 and 6 on the best-paid list:

Tight End Contracts and Salaries | Over The Cap

Ranking the top NFL Tight End contracts and salaries in the NFL

overthecap.com

And it's not fake money either. The majority of both their contracts are guaranteed ($25m and $31M respectively.)

So you are right, they are being paid handsomely. Like you, I am okay with a wait-and-see attitude--and it's not like we have a choice. Obviously Henry figured out his role better, first. But if the jury's back already on Smith, man will we pay for that for a while. I don't think it is.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Idle thoughts: the "slow your roll" edition​

Ken, I love the content of your posts. But this title is a head scratcher. I can't speak for anyone else here, but I'm a FAN. That means I get enthusiastic about my team. If I want to get SUPER enthusiastic... what's wrong with that?

I go to a Jax wings place for the Sunday 1pm games, and there's a guy there who yells out after every conversion, "That's another Patriots..." ...and we all yell, "FIRST DOWN!" Should we be slowing our roll there?

I love ya, buddy, but "fan" is short for "fanatic", and when that comes to the Pats, that's what I am. And I don't see anything wrong with that. JMHO. Go Pats!!!!!

The guy from Murphys in Alexandria moved?