Content Post another late night rant

[patfanken]

Honestly I just want this Tampa game out of the way. I love watching the games every week since I was a kid watching Bledsoe and Curtis Martin and even last year as painful as it was but this Tampa game I am really not looking forward to.

On THIS we can agree. Though the fact is, it will be a compelling football game, but I know I won't be watching until the moment the actual game kicks off

 

[patfanken]

Could well be true for the other years, but 2016, off the top of my head, was a Horrible draft for Licht:

2016 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Draftees | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Check out the 2016 Tampa Bay Buccaneers complete list of drafted players and more on Pro-Football-Reference.com.

www.pro-football-reference.com

some people don't let the facts get in the way of a good narrative. BTW - that was one HORRIBLE draft.

But that's how it goes. Even the best GM's have runs where they can't hit their own ass with a hammer. And EVERY draft will have a few picks you can criticize. BB was in a bad run the last few years, THIS year might have been a HR year.., so far so good, but who knows, in 3 years it could be a disaster.

 

[Jim Beankie]

Think about the other great QB's of this era. Brees, Manning, Rodgers, Rivers, , Rothlessberger, even Cam when he was a top 10 QB, All put up great numbers, yet only got to the big game once or twice during careers that spanned over 15 years And think about all the QB mediocrities who DID make it to the Superbowl and some even won it. Christ, Rex Ryan put a really good team around Mark Freakin' Sanchez and got to the AFCG in his 2nd year.

*BumFum also got to the AFCG in his rookie year. This is why it's imperative that we get to the Super Bowl this year and beat Brady.

 

[ivanvamp]

I *hate* this either/or game that so many people play (and so many here fall into this trap too). BB says that players win games. He's right. The coaching staff can only do so much to prepare players, but at the end of the day, the players make or break it. That said, we all know that having great players alone - even great QBs - doesn't win you championships. It takes team building and coaching.

What the Patriots had was the marriage of a phenomenal owner, the GOAT head coach, and the GOAT quarterback. The perfect storm of greatness. It lasted TWENTY FRIGGING YEARS. Brady doesn't win six championships without Belichick. Belichick doesn't win six championships without Brady. Brady obviously has proven he can win one without BB, but in order to do that he had to assemble an all-star cast. No discredit to Brady, but this Bucs team is stacked. So good for him. BB has yet to prove he can win a SB without TB, but the jury is still out on that.

But regardless...it took BOTH of them (and a lot more) to achieve the kind of all-time greatness the BB/TB Patriots did from 2001-2019. When split up, the success of one doesn't disprove the importance of the other. The whole argument is utter stupidity.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Could well be true for the other years, but 2016, off the top of my head, was a Horrible draft for Licht:

2016 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Draftees | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Check out the 2016 Tampa Bay Buccaneers complete list of drafted players and more on Pro-Football-Reference.com.

www.pro-football-reference.com

That 2nd round might be better than round one. Henry, Chris Jones, X Howard, Thomas, Shepard, Jack, Hunter Henry, Bradberry, Von Bell ... Not bad at all.

I'd want multiple shots at the 2nd round every year. 900K for a starter? Yes, please.

 

[PScottman]

I don't know why people act like talent dries up at pick 20.

Lamar Jackson, George Kittle, Travis Kelce, Michael Thomas, DeAndre Hopkins, Jason Kelce, Ryan Ramczyk, Chandler Jones, TJ Watt, Cameron Jordan, Danielle Hunter, Cameron Heyward, Bobby Wagner, Demario Davis, Eric Kendricks, Tredavious White, Tyrann Mathieu.

All 2019 first team all-pros drafted late round one or later.

Easy to compile now. I don't think I have ever once seen anyone claim that talent doesn't exist after pick 20. Harder to hit on (longevity + production) percentage wise? Yes.

Also no mention from the "draft experts after the fact" that BB tends to get productive starter quality from lower rounds consistently (many garnering second contracts). UDFAs too. People just get bent out of shape because most of those tend to be unsexy position selections.

What's the cumulative draft success of the GMs who made those picks initially (one of which is BB BTW with Jones) also considering win percentage in the five years after that particular draft? How many other picks those GMs made are also all-pro, pro bowl at least once, got a second contract, etc?

Data in a vacuum is both too easily touted and debunked.

 

[203Pat]

Clearly it was a good thing that the Cowboys didn't make any mistakes, like yanking a 31 yd FG, or having a pass go thru you receiver's hands and turn into a pick that wound up being a 4 yd drive, or committing 3 key penalties on a drive that should have ended with a game winning FG and no time for Brady at the end.

One way narratives are the ammunition of the lazy, or the insincere.

Okay so the Cowboys screwed up too. How does that have anything to do with Brady not playing well last night? Why don’t you go back to whining about the radio shows that hurt your feelings.

 

[rochrist]

Not for nothing, but the Pats secondary WITHOUT Gilmore is better than either the Buc's or the Cowboys,

Keep in mind the Bucs were down half a starting def backfield.

 

[rochrist]

Okay so the Cowboys screwed up too. How does that have anything to do with Brady not playing well last night? Why don’t you go back to whining about the radio shows that hurt your feelings.

Did anyone who actually watched the game actually contend Brady was anything other than great? I haven't seen any.

 

[venecol]

Problem with that analogy is that Brady on the Pats in 2021 ( with his cap hit versus the current QB cap hit for Jones etc) means you don't have the cap room to sign some of the free agents they signed and roster looks very different with $25 million less in cap space.

Brady's cap hit is only $10M vs $6.4M for Mac + Cam dead money, but I get your point.

After seeing what Licht did bringing all those uber talented players back within the cap, the argument that it couldn't be done because of the cap doesn't seem credible.

 

[venecol]

One thing and then I will not get back into rehashing the divorce of Brady and Belichick. Belichick didn't have a problem with Brady using Guerrero and having him on the sidelines. It was when Guerrero started to train Gronk, Edelman, and other Patriots that got Belichick to sour on him. Gronk and several defensive players went from building up strength to working on being more pliable and disregarding the Patriots' trainers' training. Belichick felt, right or wrong, it would hurt the players' production on the field. If Guerrero just stuck to training Brady, I don't think there would have ever been an issue.

Didn't Guerrero train Willie McGinest? Sounds like baloney.

 

[amfootball]

Brady doesn't win six championships without Belichick.

When split up, the success of one doesn't disprove the importance of the other. The whole argument is utter stupidity.

I don't believe that anymore. In fact after watching Brady last year, I think it is entirely possible that he wins more with a better GM.

To your second point, it absolutely does. Brady won the SB at age 43 in year one and is favored to repeat. I am not sure how else one proves their worth other than winning apart from the other person.

 

[venecol]

60% of all All-Pros are 1st round picks.

Of those 1st rd picks...

Picks 1-10 - 49% become All-Pros at least once
Picks 11-21- 32% become APs at least once
Picks 22-32- 24% become APs at least once

To expect BB can land All-Pros every year picking 22 or below is absurd.

How do BB's picks compare to those %s?

 

[venecol]

It doesn't dry up but it's a fact that the higher you pick in a draft, the higher the likelihood of picking a more talented player exists as opposed to picking at the bottom of a round.

If you pick at the bottom of rounds every year, over time your chances of grabbing All-Pro talent decrease exponentially.

It decreases according to your numbers, but not exponentially.

 

[venecol]

You don't get a Vita Vea in the 20's. (I want that Davis kid from Georgia, as an aside)

A Devin White is RARE after top 15.

A Mike Evans is hard to find after the first half of the first round.

You don't get a Tristan Wirfs past #20.

Go look at where those guys were drafted - Pats haven't had a pick that high since Mayo.

Now throw in Brady, Antonio Brown, and Gronk...see where I'm going with this? Tampa was in great position to turn it all around, and they did. And to their credit, they've gone for it - but man, go look at the contracts on that team - they'll be paying Suh for FOUR YEARS after next on his current 1-year deal. Evans got all his money pushed to the back end, so they're paying him almost 42 million over the next 2, AND he has voidable years, as does Brady, as does half that team.

That's a risk you assume in playing it this way. And consider, even with bringing back all 22, a couple of injuries could derail that team, and even without those injuries, a bounce here or a bounce there could stop them from repeating.

So say they don't win the SB this year or next. Brady retires (and let me state unequivocally that they were in the best position I've ever seen for a team to do this, especially when Tom Freaking Brady fell into their laps, and with Gronk and AB beside him...neither of whom were ever playing here again)...Gronk retires...they're paying people in 2023, 2024, 2025 in $$ that count against their cap. You can build teams that way - the Saints come to mind.|

BB does not build his teams that way. Even with the huge expenditures this year, reloading the team, the Pats are not in CAP trouble for the foreseeable future.

Pats have $18.5M in dead money this year. Bucs have $2.7M

 

[venecol]

Clearly it was a good thing that the Cowboys didn't make any mistakes, like yanking a 31 yd FG, or having a pass go thru you receiver's hands and turn into a pick that wound up being a 4 yd drive, or committing 3 key penalties on a drive that should have ended with a game winning FG and no time for Brady at the end.

One way narratives are the ammunition of the lazy, or the insincere.

I mean, the 1st time Cowboys took the lead on a FG, it lasted 38 seconds before Bucs scored a TD. The 2nd time they took the lead on a FG, it lasted 82 seconds before the game winning FG.

So Dallas had a lead for 2 minutes during the entire game, in which they had a +3 TO diff, had >400 total yds offense, 9 min TOP advantage, w/ Bucs >100 yds in penalties; and yet the Bucs still won. This had never been done before in NFL history. If not for Bucs miscues, this would've been a total blowout.

 

[venecol]

Did anyone who actually watched the game actually contend Brady was anything other than great? I haven't seen any.

That would be the one and only Mac10 (fka TommyBrady12).

 

[Pats2000]

You don't get a Vita Vea in the 20's. (I want that Davis kid from Georgia, as an aside)

A Devin White is RARE after top 15.

A Mike Evans is hard to find after the first half of the first round.

You don't get a Tristan Wirfs past #20.

Go look at where those guys were drafted - Pats haven't had a pick that high since Mayo.

Now throw in Brady, Antonio Brown, and Gronk...see where I'm going with this? Tampa was in great position to turn it all around, and they did. And to their credit, they've gone for it - but man, go look at the contracts on that team - they'll be paying Suh for FOUR YEARS after next on his current 1-year deal. Evans got all his money pushed to the back end, so they're paying him almost 42 million over the next 2, AND he has voidable years, as does Brady, as does half that team.

That's a risk you assume in playing it this way. And consider, even with bringing back all 22, a couple of injuries could derail that team, and even without those injuries, a bounce here or a bounce there could stop them from repeating.

So say they don't win the SB this year or next. Brady retires (and let me state unequivocally that they were in the best position I've ever seen for a team to do this, especially when Tom Freaking Brady fell into their laps, and with Gronk and AB beside him...neither of whom were ever playing here again)...Gronk retires...they're paying people in 2023, 2024, 2025 in $$ that count against their cap. You can build teams that way - the Saints come to mind.|

BB does not build his teams that way. Even with the huge expenditures this year, reloading the team, the Pats are not in CAP trouble for the foreseeable future.

Brady is going to retire either at the end of this year or next and that team is going to be in cap hell for several years while the Pats will be competitive again in one year

 

[1960Pats]

Belichick knows more about football than the sum total of knowledge possessed by all the head coaches in most of the NFL divisions combined

Bill's the GOAT but he's still just a coach in what even he calls a player's game.
I've never paid a dime to see an owner own or a coach coach, and I never will, but I've paid thousands to see the players play.

 

[1960Pats]

Got down on his luck in 2019, 2008, 2006, 2002.

He did okay in 2020, 2018, 2017, 2016, 2015, 2014, 2013, 2012, 2011, 2010, 2009, 2007, 2005, 2004, 2003 and 2001 though.