PATRIOTS TRAINING CAMP Day 12 Training Camp Thread - Tuesday August 10th

[PatsWSB47]

[/QUOTE]
You're not just Mac now. You can't stand the fact that most of New England hasn't put his picure on a dart board

 

[PP2]

@rochrist I wanted to address a point that you brought up in a thread that's now been locked. You said that my observations of Harry went against what literally every local sportswriter is saying- namely that he's had an outstanding TC.

Yes, he may be having a good TC, in general.

But I'm only concerned with what he does during 11 on 11's with pads on. That is the best indicator, next to a real game with live tackling, as to how he will perform. And unfortunately he's basically disappeared during those phases of TC.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

@rochrist I wanted to address a point that you brought up in a thread that's now been locked. You said that my observations of Harry went against what literally every local sportswriter is saying- namely that he's had an outstanding TC.

Yes, he may be having a good TC, in general.

But I'm only concerned with what he does during 11 on 11's with pads on. That is the best indicator, next to a real game with live tackling, as to how he will perform. And unfortunately he's basically disappeared during those phases of TC.

Agree. Who cares how many instagram vids he puts out, or media hyping him up one play beating a scrub in Ja'Juan Williams.
Other reports show he is still running the wrong routes and not fighting for the ball on other throws. He is what he is, so far a 50% catch rate WR who only has 9 yards a catch. Basically right on the cut threshold for even being a NFL receiver.

.

 

[captain stone]

The Real competition for Harry...and Mac...and Cam...begins tonight...Everything before now has been mainly warm-ups...

 

[Uptown]

 

[Sicilian]

The Real competition for Harry...and Mac...and Cam...begins tonight...Everything before now has been mainly warm-ups...

Yup. These games and the joint practices are going to make up 90% of the decisions made on who stays and who starts.

 

[jimnance]

Gotta be the most anticipated preseason game since I dont know when

 

[PP2]

@rochrist I wanted to address a point that you brought up in a thread that's now been locked. You said that my observations of Harry went against what literally every local sportswriter is saying- namely that he's had an outstanding TC.

Yes, he may be having a good TC, in general.

But I'm only concerned with what he does during 11 on 11's with pads on. That is the best indicator, next to a real game with live tackling, as to how he will perform. And unfortunately he's basically disappeared during those phases of TC.

And look what happened in last night's preseason game.

 

[50-yard-line]

And look what happened in last night's preseason game.

On the third down pass where Mac checked down to JJ Taylor, he had Harry ten yards further down the field in the same line, cutting the middle, wide open. Mac did that a lot in the first half, missing a wide open Gunner on a check-down to Taylor, as well. I was glad to see Mac open it up with a couple of just-missed long throws. He's being careful; they're being careful with him. he was showing his ability to protect the ball, sure, but that's half the game - you have to make those 20-yard throws or the defenses are going to close down on him as they did to Cam last year.

Harry had three really good blocks in short order on the outside.

This isn't to defend Harry or make excuses, though - for some reason, they won't look his way, even when he's open. It just isn't working. I've been saying for a year now: just throw the damned ball his way 10 times and see what happens. The one catch he had last night went from a nothing to a first down (and almost a lot more) with a good move and burst.

So...*shrug*...maybe he makes the team, maybe traded, maybe cut. Keeping him to just block on bubble screens is a massive waste (of talent or of a roster spot - I still don't know which). They were throwing to Wilkerson all day and he had two huge plays he could have made, but didn't - I see him on the PS this year, with potential.

 

[masterbouncer]

On the third down pass where Mac checked down to JJ Taylor, he had Harry ten yards further down the field in the same line, cutting the middle, wide open. Mac did that a lot in the first half, missing a wide open Gunner on a check-down to Taylor, as well. I was glad to see Mac open it up with a couple of just-missed long throws. He's being careful; they're being careful with him. he was showing his ability to protect the ball, sure, but that's half the game - you have to make those 20-yard throws or the defenses are going to close down on him as they did to Cam last year.

I can recall the play and in replay from Mac POV from behind, you have seen that the Safety was coming down towards Harry (cutting his route) and if Mac would have thrown into Harrys direction, Harry would have been either killed or the Safety would have intercepted the pass, it just looked like for a second he was open, but he ran straigt in to the defender who was reading Mac and coming down towards the LOS

actually a very good call by Mac to not force it to Harry and read the defender, just unload it to the RB and we are good

 

[50-yard-line]

I can recall the play and in replay from Mac POV from behind, you have seen that the Safety was coming down towards Harry (cutting his route) and if Mac would have thrown into Harrys direction, Harry would have been either killed or the Safety would have intercepted the pass, it just looked like for a second he was open, but he ran straigt in to the defender who was reading Mac and coming down towards the LOS

actually a very good call by Mac to not force it to Harry and read the defender, just unload it to the RB and we are good

I'd have to watch it again, but the safety looked way off the ball when Harry ran free. Mac wasn't forcing anything, so I agree with that.

But a check-down offense won't cut it in the NFL with the speed of linebackers now. (As an aside to that, Taylor made me a believer last night...he knows how to get to the marker).

 

[PP2]

This isn't to defend Harry or make excuses, though - for some reason, they won't look his way, even when he's open.

Neither Cam or Mac are confident enough to even just throw him a jump ball, for some reason. And when you have this lack of confidence, it's usually that this lack of trust is because he's not on their wavelength; there's no chemistry, and I've seen that quite a bit from Harry. He's just not evolving as a route runner, not reading coverage, not exploiting leverage, and not following through. It's basically a huge confidence issue with Harry who has by and large, played timid. He's just not cut out for the NFL.

 

[50-yard-line]

Neither Cam or Mac are confident enough to even just throw him a jump ball, for some reason. And when you have this lack of confidence, it's usually that this lack of trust is because he's not on their wavelength; there's no chemistry, and I've seen that quite a bit from Harry. He's just not evolving as a route runner, not reading coverage, not exploiting leverage, and not following through. It's basically a huge confidence issue with Harry who has by and large, played timid. He's just not cut out for the NFL.

You could very well be correct. That's why I'd force 10 throws in a preseason game to him - make him the number 1 and 2 read. Try to get him in a rhythm.

Make or break time. because this half-assed dance is becoming really tiresome to everyone involved, including the fans.

I'd still take a flyer on him if I was coaching a team with a QB like, say, Matt Ryan. Harry didn't play timid in the Seattle game last year - THAT GUY is an NFL receiver. The guy we keep seeing, however, is certainly not.

 

[Love The Drake]

You could very well be correct. That's why I'd force 10 throws in a preseason game to him - make him the number 1 and 2 read. Try to get him in a rhythm.

Make or break time. because this half-assed dance is becoming really tiresome to everyone involved, including the fans.

I'd still take a flyer on him if I was coaching a team with a QB like, say, Matt Ryan. Harry didn't play timid in the Seattle game last year - THAT GUY is an NFL receiver. The guy we keep seeing, however, is certainly not.

Im going on record here
Wilkerson over Harry
Nordin over Folk
Taylor over Bolden
AsiAsi over Lacosse.
Joejuans fate lies on if Gilmore is on the roster or not.
I can’t evaluate the 3rd string o line it looked ugly.
Stidham is going to be traded.
He doesn’t have value to this team.
From what I saw there is a spot on the team for Bowser not for Bill Murray.

 

[PP2]

You could very well be correct. That's why I'd force 10 throws in a preseason game to him - make him the number 1 and 2 read. Try to get him in a rhythm.

Make or break time. because this half-assed dance is becoming really tiresome to everyone involved, including the fans.

I'd still take a flyer on him if I was coaching a team with a QB like, say, Matt Ryan. Harry didn't play timid in the Seattle game last year - THAT GUY is an NFL receiver. The guy we keep seeing, however, is certainly not.

The game isn't going to stop for him. He has had many chances to get with the program and just hasn't done anything to distinguish himself.

A change of scenery for him would probably be best- with luck, he'd go to a system that allows for a lot more gambling.

 

[PP2]

Im going on record here
Wilkerson over Harry
Nordin over Folk
Taylor over Bolden
AsiAsi over Lacosse.
Joejuans fate lies on if Gilmore is on the roster or not.
I can’t evaluate the 3rd string o line it looked ugly.
Stidham is going to be traded.
He doesn’t have value to this team.
From what I saw there is a spot on the team for Bowser not for Bill Murray.

I think they will keep Stidham because Cam is injury prone and Hoyer is not going to be on the roster.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Wilkerson 1-0 over Harry. Harry running that crosser shows how slow he is. Brutal.

 

[PScottman]

He's being careful; they're being careful with him. he was showing his ability to protect the ball, sure, but that's half the game - you have to make those 20-yard throws or the defenses are going to close down on him as they did to Cam last year.

This is the type of observation which gives good insight into the kind of QB Mac-10 MIGHT be over the long term.

Given it's a BB coached team (and Saban is the same way) the first rule of football offense is "protect the ball". That was on display last night in that he took that coaching and applied it. He took only what the defense gave him almost exclusively.

Now, the next aspect to watch for is - can he take the next maturation step and apply the nuance of that first rule? Once he processes the defense, and the protections, etc...can he also do that mental gymnastics risk/reward calculation in his head and instinctively (and successfully) throw the slightly riskier pass with higher reward vs just the check down?

This is the type of maturation process question that will really answer lingering questions on whether Mac-10 is the future of the franchise at the QB position.

 

[50-yard-line]

This is the type of observation which gives good insight into the kind of QB Mac-10 MIGHT be over the long term.

Given it's a BB coached team (and Saban is the same way) the first rule of football offense is "protect the ball". That was on display last night in that he took that coaching and applied it. He took only what the defense gave him almost exclusively.

Now, the next aspect to watch for is - can he take the next maturation step and apply the nuance of that first rule? Once he processes the defense, and the protections, etc...can he also do that mental gymnastics risk/reward calculation in his head and instinctively (and successfully) throw the slightly riskier pass with higher reward vs just the check down?

This is the type of maturation process question that will really answer lingering questions on whether Mac-10 is the future of the franchise at the QB position.

Great post.

 

[50-yard-line]

Wilkerson 1-0 over Harry. Harry running that crosser shows how slow he is. Brutal.

The one where he caught the ball, turned back in, ran away from the first defender and nearly passed the second one, but enough so for a first down?

If Jonnu Smith made that same play, you'd be happy.