OT: Official 2020 Tompa Bay Gronkaneers Thread

[skinnydog]

I don’t care about appeared. Winners of the SB. Most of the players on your list are from the runner up. Making my point.

You obviously don’t need a top 5 WR to win a Super Bowl, but you do need an above WR room at least. This is a passing league and consistently whiffing on WRs in the draft is not a recipe for success.

 

[skinnydog]

Oh, and since this is the Gronkaneers thread any news on Evans injury?

 

[Kontradiction]

Seriously? Better than BB as a GM?

Ozzie Newsome was the GM for the Ravens from 2002 - 2018. In that time period they won their division 5 times and made the playoffs 9 times. They won the Super Bowl once. Twice lost in the conference championship game. Signed Joe Flacco to an enormous contract.

George Young - GM for 19 years and made the playoffs 8 times. 6 seasons with double digit losses. Made 2 conference championship games and won 2 Super Bowls.

Ernie Accorsi - 18 years as a GM. Under .500 career record, Never won a Super Bowl. He did have 5 career playoff wins. Very interested in hearing the reasons behind his brilliance.

Bobby Beathard - 22 years as a GM. Career record of 180-164. Made the playoffs 8 times. Won 2 Super Bowls and lost 2.

Ron Wolf - successful GM for 9 years going 92-52. Won one Super Bowl and lost one.

Aside from Walsh, how many of them had the GOAT taking below market deals for 20 years and still managed to go on a decade lull between titles due in large part to one personnel failure after another?

 

[Kontradiction]

Oh, and since this is the Gronkaneers thread any news on Evans injury?

Just a hyperextension of the knee. Looked ugly and I thought he would be done for the year. He may go this weekend but, considering who they’re playing, I’d probably hold him out if I was in their shoes. Especially with AB back in football shape.

 

[upstater1]

Not so. My original point is Bill the GM was the Goat up to 2014. Since then he has been awful in drafting in the top 3 rounds.

The team was primed to go in the 1st SB run of 3 in 4 years because the team had the core pieces in place. It happened again in the 2nd SB run in 2014 all because of years of good drafting and team building.

Since I was referring how bad Bb drafting in the top 3 rounds has been after 2014. I'll list those core players on that 2014 team that was drafted in the top 3.
CHUNG, Mccourty, Gronkowski, mayo, C Jones, Hightower, Vereen, Collins, Solder, JG, Harman, L Ryan. Most of these guys are pro bowlers.

That is quite a list and that is not including other core veterans who weren't drafted in the top 3 rds by NE such as Edelman, Amendola and Brady.

From 2015 onward in top 3 rounds, only Thuney, Wynn, Harris, Winovich were good draft picks at their spot. Is there a pro bowler here ?

Very poor indeed.

Your post said that the SB teams were a product of guys who were brought to the team 2014 and earlier.

Then I listed a bunch of guys who came onto the team later who were instrumental in the Super Bowl seasons.

What are we debating? These are facts...

Cooks, Thuney, Andrews, Mason, Flowers, Van Noy, Malcolm Brown, Elandon Roberts, Gilmore, Burkhead, Jonathan Jones, Trent Brown, JC Jackson, Danny Shelton.

I count 15 guys.

And yes, a couple of these guys were Pro Bowlers, like Joe Thuney and Stephon Gilmore.

 

[jal]

It is possible that Tampa does not play any of the teams they lost to in the post-season. If the seeds hold, they play GB in the divisional round. If the Saints get upset by the Seahawks which is likely given their propensity to choke then the Bucs could play the Seahawks for the NFCCG.

I agree about the offense. They are playing light years difference the last few weeks with much better concepts allowing Brady to get the ball out of his hand quickly and forcing the defense to defend the whole field not just the vertical.

Not just this - they are passing more frequently on first down setting up favorable down and distance and they are utilizing play action much more. And on top of that the players are healthy again (their best offensive lineman was out I believe for most of those mid-season losses and his backup was abused, similarly Mike Evans was banged up much of the year) or finally acclimating to football again in the case of AB.

lots of factors coming together for that offense. But their defense has been average to poor since mid season and that hasn’t changed at all. Somewhat driven by injury (and those guys are largely returning) but only partially. Bucs fans who pay more attention say Bowles insists on playing a soft zone scheme to enable exotic blitzes that doesn’t best utilize the strengths of the secondary and linebackers. Seems like a familiar theme with that coaching staff...

 

[jal]

Ozzie Newsome would rank as one of the best.

Like all things it’s not that simple. Bill the GM has his strengths (roster management, finding significant value in FA) and his relative weaknesses (drafting, with a particularly bad run at the top of the draft in the last 5-6 years and always poor at drafting certain positions like WR).

He has been on a poor run of drafting which has overall knocked him back to what I view as an average GM in recent years. But from 2000-2013 he was probably better than average at drafting which, combined with his other strengths, made him a top GM.

Let’s see if he can put together some impact drafts this year and next and we can at least be in the mix again, provided we sign a competent QB. Hard to envision us being an annual top 3 contender again without striking lightning at QB in the draft though. And even then, we will almost certainly never see a run anything like 2001-2007 or 2010-2018 again (the two “eras” of our dynasty IMO). Back to life as a “normal” fan, sigh

 

[Doctor DDS]

Aside from Walsh, how many of them had the GOAT taking below market deals for 20 years and still managed to go on a decade lull between titles due in large part to one personnel failure after another?

Having Brady was huge but I am under the impression that it was BB that drafted him, kept him on the roster and was the one who negotiated the contracts with him. The fact he took a little less than he could have is not some sort of mark against BB.

That "decade of failure" averaged 12 wins a season. Made the playoffs 9 times, 5 conference championship games and 2 Super Bowls plus had a team in 2007 that dominated the league like no team in history. The fact they lost of handful of heartbreaking playoff games had little to do with not having enough talent on the roster. His down stretch was a better stretch than majority of those names you listed best stretches.

You literally put Ernie Accorsi on a list of GMs better than BB. His career record is 138- 140 with 5 total playoff wins. Can you please explain what compelled you to include him? I went through his draft history and it is putrid. Equivalent to naming someone like Jeff Fisher as a better coach than BB (and that probably does a disservice to Jeff Fisher to be up against Accorsi)

His draft picks include:
Johnie Cooks #2 overall
Art Schlitcher - #4
John Elway #1, traded away
Mike Junkin #5
Clifford Charlton #21
Ron Dayne #11

The only top player he ever selected was P. Rivers who he then traded for Eli Manning. Probably ended up with the worst of the 3 QBs drafted early that year but they were all very solid players so I will give him credit there.

 

[Biffins]

Year 1:

Bill -

1. 7-9
2. 10 total TDs by Pats QBs
3. Failed to qualify for playoffs for first time since ‘08
4. .444 without Brady.

Tom -

1. 11-5
2. 40 TDs
3. Made playoffs for the first time since ‘07
4. .687 without BB

It's not Q.E.D. yet but it's certainly the start of a resume. And that's even with ignoring Bill's crap existing HC record ex-Brady both in Pats and at Browns.

 

[venecol]

Brady had 4,633 passing yards, (2nd most by a Buc QB ever) and 40 TD passes, which sets the Bucs' single-season record and breaks Peyton Manning's record for most TDs thrown by a QB in his 1st season with a new team. Brady accounted for 3 more rushing TDs (2nd overall highest of his career) and gave the 43-year-old 43 total TDs on the year. Brady led all QBs this season in red zone scoring percentage

Bucs' offense finished 2020 as the 3rd best scoring offense (30.8 ppg), 4th in passing offense (avg 298.5 yards through the air) and 7th overall offense (384.1 all-purpose yards).

Shame TB12's season will be a failure unless he wins a SB at 43.

 

[Biffins]

Forcing Brady out the door is the biggest blunder of Bill's career.

Completely agree. That's also a front office "Bill the GM" decision and it's obvious it was a really bad one. Why isn't Bill getting flak for that?

He could have dumped McCourty or Thuney and kept Brady if he wanted and stayed under the cap. This was Bill's ego talking.

 

[Biffins]

Brady in the SB 9 out of 18 years as the starter with NE.

50% chance he is in it this year. It will be disappointing if he goes below 50%. But they should beat WFT at the very least.

makes sense!!

 

[sb1]

Brady had 4,633 passing yards, (2nd most by a Buc QB ever) and 40 TD passes, which sets the Bucs' single-season record and breaks Peyton Manning's record for most TDs thrown by a QB in his 1st season with a new team. Brady accounted for 3 more rushing TDs (2nd overall highest of his career) and gave the 43-year-old 43 total TDs on the year. Brady led all QBs this season in red zone scoring percentage

Bucs' offense finished 2020 as the 3rd best scoring offense (30.8 ppg), 4th in passing offense (avg 298.5 yards through the air) and 7th overall offense (384.1 all-purpose yards).

Shame TB12's season will be a failure unless he wins a SB at 43.

Critics say at least Manning won rings with 2 different teams. Brady has the chance to silence that now and I think he will.

 

[farn]

Bruce Arians: Washington is not 7-9 with Alex Smith, we're not playing Dwayne Haskins

The Washington Football Team is, at 7-9, the worst team in the playoffs.

profootballtalk.nbcsports.com

Oh snap

 

[farn]

WTH you talking about? I don’t care about big name receivers. Get me ones that can get open and stretch the field. If bill could draft wideouts we wouldn’t be glamouring the position so much. He also wouldn’t be trading for ones. This team’s number 1 or 2 receiver is 34 and injured. They don’t have a true number 1 or 2 for the matter . I like meyers but he’s a number 3 at best.

What am I talking about ? BB's entire résumé as a GM has been deemed a complete failure by many posters on here based on his inability to draft a WR. If you haven't noticed the fans' obsession with WRs, you might not have been on this site much...

 

[NYCPATS4LIFE]

What am I talking about ? BB's entire résumé as a GM has been deemed a complete failure by many posters on here based on his inability to draft a WR. If you haven't noticed the fans' obsession with WRs, you might not have been on this site much...

It’s an offense driven league we have seen that already. We need to draft better at wideout. Sign one in free agency and “gulp” draft one.

 

[Tottie]

What am I talking about ? BB's entire résumé as a GM has been deemed a complete failure by many posters on here based on his inability to draft a WR. If you haven't noticed the fans' obsession with WRs, you might not have been on this site much...

Off topic a bit but I hope BB drafts defense 15th overall unless he's got a lock in mind on offense. Just please no CBs in the second round. I like his mantra that a good CB is worth more than a good pass rusher and he's drafted as such for a while now, but it's enough.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Critics say at least Manning won rings with 2 different teams. Brady has the chance to silence that now and I think he will.

Manning won super bowls with two different teams and Favre, Warner, and Montana went to the conference championship games with their new teams. Brady has more talent around him than any of them. Pressure's on...

 

[Tottie]

Manning won super bowls with two different teams and Favre, Warner, and Montana went to the conference championship games with their new teams. Brady has more talent around him than any of them. Pressure's on...

You are hilarious. There's 0 pressure. The standards you set for TB12 are ridiculous. Oh Bill you are a genius for 7 wins. Brady.. you suck you didn't win a SB. I guess every QB in the league is hot garbage. Rodgers has the best WR in football according to PFF and a top RB and OL. He better win the superbowl or he's garbage. Manning...better cancel the HOF.... only 2 Superbowls and you sucked in a few that you played? Cancel that **** you are not worthy.

 

[amfootball]

Brady had 4,633 passing yards, (2nd most by a Buc QB ever) and 40 TD passes, which sets the Bucs' single-season record and breaks Peyton Manning's record for most TDs thrown by a QB in his 1st season with a new team. Brady accounted for 3 more rushing TDs (2nd overall highest of his career) and gave the 43-year-old 43 total TDs on the year. Brady led all QBs this season in red zone scoring percentage

Bucs' offense finished 2020 as the 3rd best scoring offense (30.8 ppg), 4th in passing offense (avg 298.5 yards through the air) and 7th overall offense (384.1 all-purpose yards).

Shame TB12's season will be a failure unless he wins a SB at 43.

It is amazing what he did in a new system with no off-season at age 43.

The SB thing is interesting. I mean he has 6. It sure would be Cinderella-like if he did pull a ring off with Tampa this year or next but not sure how much that adds to anything other to say he won one with a different team. I mean SBs are hard to win, period. But he made it look so easy year after year. I actually think what he is doing in his 40s is much more legacy building then another ring. Playing this long, this well is unprecedented. I mean Peyton Manning, his rival only 1.5 years older than him is going to be inducted into the Hall of Fame this year while Brady will be getting ready to play his 22nd season and will be a favorite to contend for the chip again. Brees who is 1.5 years younger than him will retire at season's end with Brady already taking the TD record from him and soon the yards and completions. He will basically own everything - wins, rings, stats, starts. You name it and his name will be first on the list with second place far behind. That is what he is building toward. This season was more about him proving he could win away from NE/Bill and he did that. And then on top Bill is the one that struggled without him posting his first losing season since Brady was not his starting QB. These are the things that are legacy building right now but it sure would be sweet to see him hoist another Lombardi too. LOL