OT: Official 2020 Tompa Bay Gronkaneers Thread

[Lagaffe_07]

It's just bizarre to me why the coaching staff would give Cam the keys to an offense whose best before date expired when Brady left town. I expected to see something along the lines of the Ravens last year. That's what Cam can do well, and the OL can run block with the best of them too.

Well you do that kind of things when you have franchise QB, not a rental.

 

[TB12TheGoat]

Newton does not fit the Tampa offense at all he would look really bad in it

 

[RicoG]

It sure has but I think Cam was just being honest. He needs to say what went wrong so people understand why he looked so putrid all year. He still wants to play.

I can understand it from Cam. But hearing Bill make excuses is something we are all not use to.

 

[sb1]

I can understand it from Cam. But hearing Bill make excuses is something we are all not use to.

Maybe it's true the Pats needed a regular offseason more than other teams. Doesn't matter now. Either way Bill's excuses whether valid or not have an expiry date and it just passed.

No excuses next season. They're in good cap shape, there's a good chance there will be a normal-ish camp and offseason routine. I don't want to hear this stuff from any of the coaches again.

 

[Doctor DDS]

For the first 14 years as GM for NE, Bill is definitely in the conversation as the GOAT GM.

But the last 6 or 7 years he has been terrible drafting in the top 3 rounds and he has let the offensive talent go to sh##. He replaced guys who were performing with lesser talent or scrubs. Offensively it's been going down bit by bit for 10 years.

They had Gronk and Hernandez. Then just Gronk. Then nobody.

They had Welker. Then Amendola and Edelman. Then just Edelman. Then only injured Edelman.

For the deep ball, they had Moss. Then pretty much nobody outside of Cook for a year and the very average Dorsett for several years.

So Bill the GM has been trending down for awhile. If he doesn't turn it around soon. He will no longer be one of the greats, but an above average GM.

In the midst of those horrific 6 or 7 years the Patriots only made it to 4 out of 5 Super Bowls with 3 wins so I am not sure that is is the ideal period to highlight to dispute his greatness.

Every single year there is significant turnover. Decisions to be made on the cap, who to keep, who to let go, trades, free agents, contract negotiations and the draft/UFA. His drafting in the early rounds has certainly not been as solid as it was in his early years and that is part of their current problems but his brilliant roster management was what set him apart in the salary cap era. Having the courage to stay true to his value chart on players and letting numerous talented players leave and getting something in return either via trade or the comp system was what set him apart from his peers. The Pats rarely made a major contract mistake and he maintained the financial flexibility to field competitive teams for 19 straight years. He has made a ton of mistakes like every GM in history and things are not looking at the moment but he is not in any danger of being considered a marginal coach GM despite what the numerous naysayers on this forum state.

If BB is not one of the greatest GMs of all time then who is? What GMs since 2000 have had his run of success?

 

[amfootball]

In the midst of those horrific 6 or 7 years the Patriots only made it to 4 out of 5 Super Bowls with 3 wins so I am not sure that is is the ideal period to highlight to dispute his greatness.

Every single year there is significant turnover. Decisions to be made on the cap, who to keep, who to let go, trades, free agents, contract negotiations and the draft/UFA. His drafting in the early rounds has certainly not been as solid as it was in his early years and that is part of their current problems but his brilliant roster management was what set him apart in the salary cap era. Having the courage to stay true to his value chart on players and letting numerous talented players leave and getting something in return either via trade or the comp system was what set him apart from his peers. The Pats rarely made a major contract mistake and he maintained the financial flexibility to field competitive teams for 19 straight years. He has made a ton of mistakes like every GM in history and things are not looking at the moment but he is not in any danger of being considered a marginal coach GM despite what the numerous naysayers on this forum state.

If BB is not one of the greatest GMs of all time then who is? What GMs since 2000 have had his run of success?

If you gave another GM Brady for 20 years taking below market contracts for the last 7 when they were winning those 3 SBs then yeah, I think you would have a few GMs with that success or maybe more success. Bill cost us a ring with the Butler benching.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

I honestly think that they have dumb it down at maximum for him and it was still not working. I think they were at a point where they didn’t know what to do because in the passing game he was inept at everything. Short of calling running plays for him every play they were very limited in what they could call.

He still should look better as the weeks went on, not worse.

 

[203Pat]

30 INTs says no

Jameis can physically throw a football. There is a significantly better chance that Jameis is in the league next year and Cam is not.

 

[sb1]

Maybe it's true the Pats needed a regular offseason more than other teams. Doesn't matter now. Either way Bill's excuses whether valid or not have an expiry date and it just passed.

No excuses next season. They're in good cap shape, there's a good chance there will be a normal-ish camp and offseason routine. I don't want to hear this stuff from any of the coaches again.

Bill Belichick's Recent Comments On Patriots Set High Expectations For 2021 - NESN.com

Like I was just saying.

When Brady and his team wins the Super Bowl this year (yeah I really think they will) - there will be rightfully questions about how good Bill really is without Brady. All eyes will be on Bill to respond to that and he can with a successful and timely rebuild of his own team. Hopefully that is exactly what happens.

 

[RicoG]

In the midst of those horrific 6 or 7 years the Patriots only made it to 4 out of 5 Super Bowls with 3 wins so I am not sure that is is the ideal period to highlight to dispute his greatness.

Those SB were brought about by guys who were brought to the team in 2014 or earlier. In 2016, 2017, 2018, it was the veterans and coaches who carried the team to SBs. There were no hot shot up and comers. Now that those veterans are nearly all gone, you are seeing the results of those 6/7 years of not drafting well in the top rounds.

 

[Kontradiction]

Are you nuts? No one on this forum is calling Belichick the GOAT GM.

There are plenty on this forum that have asserted that Bill is the GOAT GM. The most recent person that I can recall off the top of my head is @farn, but if you’d like I can find more. The search function on this forum is very good. I’m sure you came to that realization while frantically searching for a post of mine a few weeks ago.

EDIT: LMAO, DoctorDDS, above, just said the same thing.

 

[203Pat]

Those SB were brought about by guys who were brought to the team in 2014 or earlier. In 2016, 2017, 2018, it was the veterans who carried the team and the coaches. There were no hot shot up and comers. Now that those veterans are nearly all gone, you are seeing the results of those 6/7 years of not drafting well in the top rounds.

I feel like I have said this 30 times now. Homers just want to say "Hurrr 6 rings!". Obviously Bill's total body of work as a GM has been very good but the wheels have fallen off the last few years. No way around it. What also drives me crazy is the same people will tell you Brady couldn't do what he is doing in Tampa here in New England in 2020 because he is on a "all star team". So these people will acknowledge that this roster is bad enough where a QB who just threw for 4500 yards and 40 TDs couldn't succeed here but ignore the reason why this roster is so bad.

 

[denverpatsfan]

In the midst of those horrific 6 or 7 years the Patriots only made it to 4 out of 5 Super Bowls with 3 wins so I am not sure that is is the ideal period to highlight to dispute his greatness.

Every single year there is significant turnover. Decisions to be made on the cap, who to keep, who to let go, trades, free agents, contract negotiations and the draft/UFA. His drafting in the early rounds has certainly not been as solid as it was in his early years and that is part of their current problems but his brilliant roster management was what set him apart in the salary cap era. Having the courage to stay true to his value chart on players and letting numerous talented players leave and getting something in return either via trade or the comp system was what set him apart from his peers. The Pats rarely made a major contract mistake and he maintained the financial flexibility to field competitive teams for 19 straight years. He has made a ton of mistakes like every GM in history and things are not looking at the moment but he is not in any danger of being considered a marginal coach GM despite what the numerous naysayers on this forum state.

If BB is not one of the greatest GMs of all time then who is? What GMs since 2000 have had his run of success?

Ozzie Newsome would rank as one of the best.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

Bill Belichick's Recent Comments On Patriots Set High Expectations For 2021 - NESN.com

Like I was just saying.

Making excuses again. I don’t call what they did being agressive. I call it desperation.

they weren’t really agressive in 2014,2015 and 2016 and those moves had no impact on the cap in 2020. The maybe only agressive move on offense was the cook trade and they trade him the next year which cost them nothing. After 2017 it was desperation move after desperation move because Bill fail to bring any talent through the draft.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

There are plenty on this forum that have asserted that Bill is the GOAT GM. The most recent person that I can recall off the top of my head is @farn, but if you’d like I can find more. The search function on this forum is very good. I’m sure you came to that realization while frantically searching for a post of mine a few weeks ago.

EDIT: LMAO, DoctorDDS, above, just said the same thing.

Please do, and DoctorDDS said he's one of the greatest GMs, not the GOAT GM.

 

[Doctor DDS]

There are plenty on this forum that have asserted that Bill is the GOAT GM. The most recent person that I can recall off the top of my head is @farn, but if you’d like I can find more. The search function on this forum is very good. I’m sure you came to that realization while frantically searching for a post of mine a few weeks ago.

EDIT: LMAO, DoctorDDS, above, just said the same thing.

If BB is not then who is? Should be easy to list 3 or 4 who have been more successful the past 20 years.

 

[Doctor DDS]

Ozzie Newsome would rank as one of the best.

Ozzie is definitely an excellent GM. Not nearly as successful as BB but certainly one of the best in the last 20 years.

 

[203Pat]

If we are measuring success in rings then yes Bill is the best GM ever but that would be ignoring the fact that as a coach the gap between him and the second best coach in the league is a mile long. Between him being the best coach to ever do while spending the 20 year run with the greatest QB to ever do it he was able to miss on a lot of personnel moves and still win.

 

[1960Pats]

Cam did not belittle Tom if the quotes below are what you are referring to. He actually said he was unable to learn Tom's system. That it was too difficult for him. This is really eye opening as everyone knew that Cam would not be able to run what Brady was doing and that our coaching staff would have to adapt to him. Apparently that never happened. You know for all the flak we give Arians at least he has been changing his system to fit Tom to where they are on fire right now. Josh/Bill never did that with Cam which is head scratching for how "brilliant" our coaching is supposed to be.

Patriots’ System, Not Succeeding Tom Brady, Gave Cam Newton Trouble​

Quarterback Cam Newton suffered the same fate as many veteran players who joined the Patriots before him: He never quite acclimated to New England’s overgrown offense.

Newton explained Monday on WEEI’s “The Greg Hill Show” that the offense, not succeeding legendary quarterback Tom Brady, gave him trouble in 2020 as the Patriots went 7-9.

“None. It was the system,” Newton said. “People undermine that. No disrespect to him. Obviously, I have the utmost respect for him, as we all do as quarterbacks. But I wasn’t just following him. I was following a system that he had the luxury of being in for 20 years. Just imagine that. That’s just like, as a student you’re given six months to take a final exam, honestly, that took 20 years to prepare but you only have, in essence, five weeks to prepare for it.

“So yeah, it was hard at times. It had nothing to do with him. It had a lot more to do with a system and Josh McDaniels — who’s brilliant by the way — of going off of the years of… 2001, 2003. It was nothing for him to say ‘well, we had this play back in 2006.’ Like, 2006, I was in the 10th or 11th grade, you know what I’m saying?”

The Patriots headed into their offseason workout program with Jarrett Stidham and Brian Hoyer at quarterback and didn’t sign Newton until July. NFL preseason games also were canceled this summer because of the COVID-19 pandemic, so Newton was heading into the 2020 season mostly cold.

It’s understandable why Newton couldn’t fully grasp an offense that’s been growing for 20 years in a matter of five weeks. It’s less understandable why McDaniels would expect him to.

Newton wound up completing 65.8 percent of his passes for 2,657 yards with eight touchdowns and 10 interceptions while rushing 137 times for 592 yards with 12 more scores. He also caught two passes for 35 yards with a touchdown and lost a fumble for 21 total scores and 11 turnovers.

Patriots' System, Not Succeeding Tom Brady, Gave Cam Newton Trouble - NESN.com

Cam Newton suffered the same fate as many veteran players who joined the Patriots before him, never quite acclimating to the offense.

nesn.com

Once again I stand corrected. I didn't hear the question and took it out of context.

 

[Doctor DDS]

I feel like I have said this 30 times now. Homers just want to say "Hurrr 6 rings!". Obviously Bill's total body of work as a GM has been very good but the wheels have fallen off the last few years. No way around it. What also drives me crazy is the same people will tell you Brady couldn't do what he is doing in Tampa here in New England in 2020 because he is on a "all star team". So these people will acknowledge that this roster is bad enough where a QB who just threw for 4500 yards and 40 TDs couldn't succeed here but ignore the reason why this roster is so bad.

The job of the GM is to field a competitive team and the BB led Patriots had a winning record 19 straight years and had a level of success never seen before in the history of the league. So counting actual results is certainly the crux of my analysis.

I also have this crazy opinion that someone like Red Auerbach was an all time great GM despite having some of the greatest players on his roster (I give him the credit for picking those players) I did not consider him an average GM after making several bad 1st round picks including back to back picks like Tom Boswell and Norm Cook when the Celtics sucked in 1977 and 1978.

When I think about a great GM I look at all aspects of that role and during BB's tenure managing the cap has been vital. The 2014 - 2018 run was accomplished by augmenting existing talent with crucial contributions from players like new contributors like James White, Van Noy, David Andrews, Chris Hogan Trey Flowers, Trent Brown ,,,,, They do not win any of those championships without players like that. I realize that many here consider draft success as the only true measure of success of a GM and with some recent struggles it is easy to bash BB but I will ask again what GM has been better?

Ozzie Newsome has been mentioned and he is a great GM but he's made a bunch of drafting mistakes over the years. (like every other GM) Matt Elam, Breshard Perriman, Arthur Brown..... the Flacco contract was not exactly a high water mark either.