Breer: How the wheels came off the Pats dynasty

[Ras-IR Dowling]

This article basically says -and I’ve heard others say it too - that the rebuild doesn’t begin this season...it begins NEXT season.

Gonna be a rough ride ahead.

This was a given once Brady left. This year was about resetting the cap getting us in a good position to rebuild the roster. It’s a two order to fix everything in one offseason if we can just have our qb of the future ready to go by 2022 with noticeable improvement in the passing game I’ll be happy.

 

[Wax Frog]

Many on this forum have been bashing the scouting department, but if the article is correct then that is not the issue. The problem is that the decision maker(s) are not listening to the scouts. That in turn has caused another problem: good scouts departing.

This growing narrative of scouts getting the brush-off is disturbing to me. Oof.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

This year they did accomplish 1 thing at least - cleared cap space for next year and hopefully years after . And though it’s not really an ‘accomplishment ‘ they may solidify picking at or around 10 which also will help. So this year was a start in some ways.

Not really. They have 20 free agent. Almost half the roster. It’s not like we have this cap space with a roster almost set and we can target 2-3 top key player.

 

[jah]

When people die of old age, does the obituary usually frame it as "the wheels came off"?

 

[FCB02062]

some of us on here have been saying this same stuff for the last 2 seasons...and getting bans left and right for "wrong think". now that the Pats are a stuck pig it's open season from the media. the pats have risen like a phoenix many times before - after the loss in Pittsburgh in 2018 or 2017 (can't remember), after getting blown out in KC in 2014 - so I frankly think many scumbags didn't want to write this story....but now breer is safe bc the 2020 Pat's are dead and buried and the 2021 team isn't looking too promising atm given Bills draft failures

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Not really. They have 20 free agent. Almost half the roster. It’s not like we have this cap space with a roster almost set and we can target 2-3 top key player.

Where did I say the roster was set? We almost always have around 20 fa and probably around 5 of them are regular contributors who would be losses that we can’t resign. That’s just how it works with a cap. The difference is this year unlike last year we actually have the ability to keep a few and still have room to work with in fa.

 

[jah]

I agree. I don't know what the plan was this season and that was what I thought as soon as they let Brady walk. It was why I wasn't really on board with signing Cam. It just seemed the roster was so bad that this wouldn't be a playoff team with or without Cam so why sign him and maybe win 2-3 more games. Bill jumped out of the plane without bothering to pack a parachute.

This year they did accomplish 1 thing at least - cleared cap space for next year and hopefully years after . And though it’s not really an ‘accomplishment ‘ they may solidify picking at or around 10 which also will help. So this year was a start in some ways.

We’ll also see what comes about our younger contributors like dugger, wino, Harris, Meyers, Byrd, onweno, uche, Jennings , hall , Herron, cowart, who all got quality time in this year.

This is something BB has readily acknowledged to the media. They loaded a whole lot of money into the 2020 cap to facilitate a late 2010s dynasty run, and it meant there was nothing we could have done to meaningfully improve the roster this year outside of drafting well. And for what it's worth, I think we did draft pretty well. Our offense sucks, but imagine how much more it would suck without Onwenu. There were some unaddressed positions of dire need, but the team probably went BPA in the draft, which I fully support and will continue to support.

If people want to blame Bill for how bad our roster was in 2020, that's valid and accurate. But in doing so, the justification is usually "he blew the 2020 offseason" rather than "he spent years setting up the 2020 offseason to fail". The good news is the 2021 offseason is not set up to fail.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

This growing narrative of scouts getting the brush-off is disturbing to me. Oof.

Deja Vu.

Over Scouts objections, the Patriots drafted [Laurence Maroney, Chad Jackson, NKeal Harry, Sony Michel] because they aced their Foxboro workout with Josh McDaniels.

The only time we replenished the talent cupboard (Gronk, Edelman, Hernandez, Hightower, Chandler Jones) was 2009-2012 when McDaniels was NOT here. Or before 2004 when McDaniels was NOT involved (Deion Branch, Givens, Graham).

.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

This is something BB has readily acknowledged to the media. They loaded a whole lot of money into the 2020 cap to facilitate a late 2010s dynasty run, and it meant there was nothing we could have done to meaningfully improve the roster this year outside of drafting well. And for what it's worth, I think we did draft pretty well. Our offense sucks, but imagine how much more it would suck without Onwenu. There were some unaddressed positions of dire need, but the team probably went BPA in the draft, which I fully support and will continue to support.

If people want to blame Bill for how bad our roster was in 2020, that's valid and accurate. But in doing so, the justification is usually "he blew the 2020 offseason" rather than "he spent years setting up the 2020 offseason to fail". The good news is the 2021 offseason is not set up to fail.

People forget how hard it is to win in this league and more importantly to retool once your run reaches the end. We were mainly spoiled by having Brady in his prime during the last ‘rebuild’ where bb and him could carry a lesser roster without a year like this. I agree bill’s drafts have not been too bad recently, his drafts have always tended to yield 1-2 great picks and 2-3 rotational guys and that is what most have yielded but 2017. The only thing really missing, which is pretty big, is the generational type pick like a gronk, Brady, or Seymour. That’s something we’ve got to hit on soon, should help picking in the top 15 finally.

 

[captain stone]

I don't know why this is a surprise. This Harry fiasco is part of Belichick's legacy, IMO. He cannot draft the position of a true WR for chit. Slots? Fine, they are tough, hard noses little pains in the arse that he likes to coach. Wideouts? Divas. BB is lost when it comes to evaluating and drafting talented guys that play outside the numbers. How many HoF, great, good and even mediocre receivers have the Pats passed on to draft guys that are freakin' horrible? He values his buddies opinions more than his own staff? Shocking. How many of these scouts stand up and fight for the guy they know can help this team? Do they simply genuflect to Belichick's greatness? We are lucky that it lasted as long as it did, IMO. Part of that is Brady, and part of that is Bill's ability to re-tool every other aspect of the team except wideouts. In the end, it's going to say Bill won ____ rings, re-tooled the Pats to get back to the Super Bowl in a second run, and sucked at evaluating, drafting and developing wide outs.

It's the one thing he sucks at. Meh, ok. Everything else pretty much has worked out.

Agreed...Well except for those 2nd-round DBs...

 

[Koma]

Bingo. They put together the greatest dynasty the league has ever seen, lasting really 19 seasons. The question shouldn't be "How could this have come to an end?", but rather, "How in the hell did they manage to dominate the NFL - with everything designed to stop this very thing from happening - for 19 straight seasons without a single bad season thrown in?"

I would add in: "with everything designed to stop this very thing from happening, including the league putting roadblocks in their path (over-punishing for minor or nonexistent offenses, taking first round picks, suspensions, etc) -"

 

[TheRainMaker]

Right on que media! I asked yesterday on this board when will they go back in time and see Bill's Blunders and here they are. BB defenders I suggest shouldn't read this article.

From the SI article How the Wheels Came Off the Patriots' Dynasty:

"But the truth is the Patriots lost more than a quarterback in Brady. They lost the ultimate fixer. Brady didn’t create margin for error. He was the margin for error."

Every time the defense is "Bill won 6 Super Bowls, went to 9, yada yada yada" it was because he had TOM BRADY! There have been plenty of teams that had talented rosters over the years, but couldn't go anywhere because of one reason, NO QB!

“To me, Brady masked their misses over the years,” said an AFC exec. “Just look at their draft history. You see picks missed on, but Brady, [Rob Gronkowski], [Julian] Edelman, they’d mask those issues. …

The 2010-2012 drafts where the only reason they were lucky to even win ONE Super Bowl since 2004. 2009 saw late returns with Edelman starting in 2014 and the return of Chung after Bill admitted he misused Chung at FS during his first stint in NE.

"“Is their roster ever spectacular?” asked an NFC personnel director. “I’m not sure it ever was, but they had an unbelievable coach and an unbelievable quarterback. …"

Truth. Aside from a few years (2014,2015,2016,2017), their rosters have been pretty underwhelming since 2007 considering they were underpaying their GOAT QB and routinely didn't have many high priced contracts.

"Another is 2020 third-rounder Anfernee Jennings, a limited linebacker who Nick Saban called his “favorite player” to some teams. He, predictably, was overdrafted by Belichick. There are more, too."

He may be overdrafted, but look at his college tape and he can rush the passer. Like Chung and Chandler Jones before him, Jennings is being misused at LB.

On taking Jujauan Williams in 2019: "the Patriots took supersized Vanderbilt corner Joejuan Williams in the second round, thinking he could fill the kind of role Patrick Chung has for them in recent years to deal with them (Elite TE's) "But the question is whether doing that costs them someone better. And if they keep making decisions like that, how many better players are they passing on?"

Finally, finally the media is seeing how horrible of a pick that was in 2019. Bill has had a horrible habit over the years passing up talent for guys he "likes" for "certain situations" as the article goes into how that has now gotten out hand. Rather than maximizing possibly Brady's last year, you draft a DB where the position was loaded over WR/TE when it was in dire need. Over the years, Bill has also ignored minor needs that have turned into major ones because he hoards at other positions who end up getting cut.

Dugger is the latest example. He's a decent player at best, but Bill shouldn't have traded out of the first round and then trade up for him. He should've traded up for a damn WR! He has ONE pass breakup in 16 games and his best play this year was when he was on an island and stopped Josh Allen from turning the corner on a run. This guy needs to be more of a pest in the running/passing game to justify being taken over the slam dunk picks Winfield Jr. or Chinn (contenders for DROTY). Need to see him deliver a big hit for once, force a fumble, INT a pass.

 

[captain stone]

I despise Bert Breer, but in this case he's not wrong...I found especially insightful those quotes from personnel execs regarding Jennings, AssyAssy & Keene...the same thoughts some of us had the moment these three useless piles of rancid poopoo were drafted ... So to those fanboys ready to play the But Hindsight card: GFY.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Agreed...Well except for those 2nd-round DBs...

You can thank the sh-t CB/WR method that McDaniels and Caserio developed 15 years ago, which Belichick used to replace his dad's scouting methods. Our high CB picks have been trash ever since. I'd be happy to provide the quote and source.

.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Right on que media! I asked yesterday on this board when will they go back in time and see Bill's Blunders and here they are. BB defenders I suggest shouldn't read this article.

From the SI article How the Wheels Came Off the Patriots' Dynasty:

"But the truth is the Patriots lost more than a quarterback in Brady. They lost the ultimate fixer. Brady didn’t create margin for error. He was the margin for error."

Every time the defense is "Bill won 6 Super Bowls, went to 9, yada yada yada" it was because he had TOM BRADY! There have been plenty of teams that had talented rosters over the years, but couldn't go anywhere because of one reason, NO QB!

“To me, Brady masked their misses over the years,” said an AFC exec. “Just look at their draft history. You see picks missed on, but Brady, [Rob Gronkowski], [Julian] Edelman, they’d mask those issues. …

The 2010-2012 drafts where the only reason they were lucky to even win ONE Super Bowl since 2004. 2009 saw late returns with Edelman starting in 2014 and the return of Chung after Bill admitted he misused Chung at FS during his first stint in NE.

"“Is their roster ever spectacular?” asked an NFC personnel director. “I’m not sure it ever was, but they had an unbelievable coach and an unbelievable quarterback. …"

Truth. Aside from a few years (2014,2015,2016,2017), their rosters have been pretty underwhelming since 2007 considering they were underpaying their GOAT QB and routinely didn't have many high priced contracts.

"Another is 2020 third-rounder Anfernee Jennings, a limited linebacker who Nick Saban called his “favorite player” to some teams. He, predictably, was overdrafted by Belichick. There are more, too."

He may be overdrafted, but look at his college tape and he can rush the passer. Like Chung and Chandler Jones before him, Jennings is being misused at LB.

On taking Jujauan Williams in 2019: "the Patriots took supersized Vanderbilt corner Joejuan Williams in the second round, thinking he could fill the kind of role Patrick Chung has for them in recent years to deal with them (Elite TE's) "But the question is whether doing that costs them someone better. And if they keep making decisions like that, how many better players are they passing on?"

Finally, finally the media is seeing how horrible of a pick that was in 2019. Bill has had a horrible habit over the years passing up talent for guys he "likes" for "certain situations" as the article goes into how that has now gotten out hand. Rather than maximizing possibly Brady's last year, you draft a DB where the position was loaded over WR/TE when it was in dire need. Bill has also ignored minor needs that have turned into major ones with

Dugger is the latest example. He's a decent player at best, but Bill shouldn't have traded out of the first round and then trade up for him. He should've traded up for a damn WR! He has ONE pass breakup in 16 games and his best play this year was when he was on an island and stopped Josh Allen from turning the corner on a run. This guy needs to be more of a pest in the running/passing game to justify being taken over the slam dunk picks Winfield Jr. or Chinn (contenders for DROTY). Need to see him deliver a big hit for once, force a fumble, INT a pass.

I don't see this as an indictment of Belichick. He's always been dependent on the staff around him. So that article shows this. From 2010-12 when we had awesome drafts, we had Bill O'Brien here, Reese too. Since McDaniels came back we literally have immediately sucked at drafting again. And Caserio clearly isn't elite by himself. Belichick is basically relying on terrible information of the guys around him since 2012 to now.

 

[Triumph]

“They took Jordan Richards—we had him on our back board, as a free agent, and they took him in the second round,” said our AFC executive. “Without the quarterback, it’s caught up with them.”

Exactly what I have been saying. Brady covered up so many personnel mistakes and the Pats kept winning.

Ashley doesnt believe it. YET!

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

Wonder if we will reach out to guys such as dimitroff, Pioli or Quinn. Especially if Caserio moves on.

 

[TheRainMaker]

I don't see this as an indictment of Belichick. He's always been dependent on the staff around him. So that article shows this. From 2010-12 when we had awesome drafts, we had Bill O'Brien here, Reese too. Since McDaniels came back we literally have immediately sucked at drafting again. And Caserio clearly isn't elite by himself. Belichick is basically relying on terrible information of the guys around him since 2012 to now.

I'm not sure whose at fault, but the strategy has to change. About a week ago, Curren said on the "Pat McAfee Show" that he's not confident Bill can turn things around.

 

[BTTA]

The drop off is a little bit of a lot of things. Some of those things, like the league taking of draft picks, are one time blows that can be overcome. Others, like arrogance leading to stubbornness about methods that aren't working anymore, are malignant because they carry from year to year and tend to get more entrenched and difficult to change. It doesn't take but a little bit of that to do serious damage to an organization's decision making. Anyone who has worked in an office where the top person was put on a pedestal has seen this dynamic.

 

[NYCPATS4LIFE]

Bill needs to reach out to people when it comes to the draft. I don’t see this being a quick fix. We need to draft well the next couple of years.