If you were Bill, the first 3 things you would do this offseason are...?

[DaBruinz]

1. Stop trying to prove you’re smarter than everyone else and understand it hurts the team more than helps it.
2. Focus on defense. You turned around the 2002 mess in one offseason so it’s doable and this defense at least has a few good pieces to it.
3. Get a bridge and a young QB prospect to work with. Finding the heir to Brady isn’t done overnight and admit the lottery ticket you have (Stidham) is not a winner.

Why supposedly smart people keep pushing this BS theory that BB is "trying to prove he's smarter than everyone"? You have ZERO proof of that. You're talking about a guy who has breathed Football for 55+ years, learning from some of the best in the business. He has NEVER stopped learning and expanding his knowledge. BB knows what it takes for teams to WIN. He knows that it's proper coaching and proper execution in all 3 phases of the game. He also knows that you had to make do with what you have. That you can only do so much to account for injuries. You're acting like BB did nothing to try and improve the team THIS YEAR. You also seem to have forgotten that he's been able to get the most of of quite a few players who just hadn't panned out while playing for other teams. Players such as Vrable, Compton, Neal, Patten, Ninkovich, Van Noy, etc, etc.

Does BB make mistakes? Yep. He's human. Do players fail to live up to expectations? Yep. Happens all the time all across the league. The difference is that BB has been able to get more out of other players to cover for the inconsistencies than most other head coaches. BB rarely makes the same mistake twice. And he's made a habit of moving on from players before they have "fallen off the cliff" rather than after.

You're probably one of those people who claimed Aaron Rodgers was a bust because he sat for 3 seasons behind Favre despite being the 24th overall pick. He played in a total of 7 games, starting NONE.. Why? Because he wasn't ready during the 1st two seasons and during the 3rd one, Favre wasn't ready to give up the reigns. So, if it takes 2-3 seasons for one of the better 1st round QBs to be ready to start, why do you think Stidham is a bust already? And it's not like Rodgers lit things up his first 2 seasons going 9/16 and 6/15 respectively. If you don't think Favre had some stinkers in there and that there weren't calls for Rodgers to be playing, you don't know anty GB fans. Ands No. I'm not saying that Stidham is the next Rodgers. I'm saying that you giving up on him after 2 seasons is just silly especially when BB has said, time and again, players need 3 seasons before you can truly evaluate them.

 

[DaBruinz]

You will not draft the franchise QB at #15 in the draft. However, you might be able to get a DT who can finally shore up the interior against the run closer to what we had with Wilfork. Alternatively, if no such player is available you might be able to find a legit difference making ILB who can be a true successor to HT. Hell, maybe there is a DE available at #15 that might just give us what we need to produce more pressure.

The QB situation for the foreseeable future (i.e. 1-2 years) will have to be resolved via FA. That doesn't mean you stop trying to develop younger QBs but that realistically you will need a veteran bridge guy for at least 1-2 years until that developmental player might have a shot to take over.

And yet Rodgers was drafted at 24. Brees at 32.. Brady at 199..

You just never know where you will get that Franchise QB

 

[Doctor DDS]

In the last 5 years we have lost a ton of talent and not adequately replaced it. Easley should have slid into the Chandler Jones role but he was a colossal bust. Malcolm Brown was supposed to take over for Wilfork but he was underwhelming in the role. We had a solid receiver in Brandin Cooks for about 5 minutes and then traded him but never replaced him. Gronk retired and Bill has pretty much ignored/whiffed completely on the position since. Collins and Van Noy left last year and Bill signed Brandon Copeland, a special teamer. Brady left and Bill had no plan. His plan for a minute was apparently go with Stidham, who he refuses to let start a game in a lost season, or Hoyer, who has been a healthy scratch since the KC debacle.

I keep hearing the excuses about the salary cap. BILL MANAGES THE SALARY CAP. If there are cap issues it is Bill's fault. I am not saying he would have been able to re-sign everyone to match the massive deals they got elsewhere but when these guys are leaving and your draft picks are busts then you have to pay middle of the road veterans and hope they pan out. If the Chiefs can find a way to pay Mahomes half a billion dollars as well as the rest of that all star team then there are ways to do it. Pretty much all of the Chiefs stars are homegrown. Mahomes, Kelce, Hill, Chris Jones, Eric Fisher all drafted and then they supplement via free agency.

You want to cite Trent Brown but ignore the trades for Sanu, Eric Rowe, Michael Bennett, Russell Bodine, and Kony Ealy and ignore the fact that they didn't maximize the return on Jimmy Garoppolo or Chandler Jones as far as I am concerned.

Bill is a great head coach and I think he has been a solid GM over the span of his career as a whole but recently he has been terrible at roster building/management. Tom Brady covered that up for a while until the roster got so bad not even Brady could prop it up.

BB is the only GM in the history of the NFL with a run this long. Your expectation is that this 19 year run was not long enough and it not continuing is unacceptable. Every other GM in the history of the league has to re-load but you will not stand for it and since their last Super Bowl win was way back in 2018 and they were only 12-4 last year it proves that BB is terrible at roster management. Replacing talent year after year particularly when picking late is not easy. BB has clearly had some drafting misses of late and that is part of current problems but the cap bill was coming due either way and a reckoning was coming, Watch what happens to the Saints this offseason as they try and deal with the cap. Assume they are been terrible at cap management as well.

 

[mgteich]

Why not? They’d be getting paid.

Players have a choice. for 20 years, lots of players wanted to play for the patriots, now, not so much,

 

[Hammer of Thor]

Pats have the ammunition to trade into the top 10 if they see a QB they want. Picking a DT "feels safe". But the fact is you keep inserting trash at the QB position and you will continue to end up in the 6-10 or 7-9 region once the year is done. This year has shown that the franchise QB is the difference maker. BB might be a genius coach but he still can't win with trash at QB.

There’s a middle ground between franchise and trash though. I agree that if they really think there’s a franchise QB that they can obtain, they need to trade up for him. But they need to be realistic in that assessment, and not trade up to take the next Blake Bortles. We have trash at QB this year, but Belichick made it to the divisionals in Cleveland with Vinny Testeverde, who had been considered a huge bust to that point. Ryan Tannehill was considered a bust until he escaped bad coaching in Miami and wound up with Vrabel, and they are poised for another decent playoff run. They aren’t franchise QBs, but we need to find someone like that until we can get the franchise guy. Belichick can work with decent, but no one can make trash into a winner.

 

[mgteich]

And yet Rodgers was drafted at 24. Brees at 32.. Brady at 199..

You just never know where you will get that Franchise QB

So, we should make believe that it is just as likely to get a franchise quarterback in the 2nd or 6th as it is in the first half of the 1st round?

Just take another 4th round shot, and when that fails (as is most likely), we can say that franhcise QB's have been found in the 4th.

 

[mgteich]

There’s a middle ground between franchise and trash though. I agree that if they really think there’s a franchise QB that they can obtain, they need to trade up for him. But they need to be realistic in that assessment, and not trade up to take the next Blake Bortles. We have trash at QB this year, but Belichick made it to the divisionals in Cleveland with Vinny Testeverde, who had been considered a huge bust to that point. Ryan Tannehill was considered a bust until he escaped bad coaching in Miami and wound up with Vrabel, and they are poised for another decent playoff run. They aren’t franchise QBs, but we need to find someone like that until we can get the franchise guy. Belichick can work with decent, but no one can make trash into a winner.

Yes, we should sign a veteran who would be expected to start in 2021, along with trying to draft a franchise quarterback.

 

[Hammer of Thor]

Players have a choice. for 20 years, lots of players wanted to play for the patriots for cheap, now, not so much,

Corrected that for you. Free agents will play anywhere they can get paid (Mario Williams with the bad Buffalo teams comes to mind), but some guys were willing to take a discount to come here. That what we’ve lost; we need to pay full sticker price to bring in external guys now until the Pats can get back to being winners again.

 

[mgteich]

Corrected that for you. Free agents will play anywhere they can get paid (Mario Williams with the bad Buffalo teams comes to mind), but some guys were willing to take a discount to come here. That what we’ve lost; we need to pay full sticker price to bring in external guys now until the Pats can get back to being winners again.

OK, let's talk about now. Perhaps, now a player like the 2021 equivalent of Diggs would rather play on a team with more SB potential than the patriots will be perceived to have in March or April when many of these decisions are made. Yes, maybe players will play for less for a contender. Or they might play for less for a team with a top QB who will be more of contender with them coming onboard.

Are you really saying that all top WR's available would be just as likely to chose to play for us as for those with a top 10 QB, or a top young QB.

 

[sb1]

Why supposedly smart people keep pushing this BS theory that BB is "trying to prove he's smarter than everyone"? You have ZERO proof of that.

Actually there is proof.

Spygate.

Bill trying to be smarter than everyone else is exactly how that happened.

You're talking about a guy who has breathed Football for 55+ years, learning from some of the best in the business. He has NEVER stopped learning and expanding his knowledge. BB knows what it takes for teams to WIN. He knows that it's proper coaching and proper execution in all 3 phases of the game. He also knows that you had to make do with what you have. That you can only do so much to account for injuries. You're acting like BB did nothing to try and improve the team THIS YEAR. You also seem to have forgotten that he's been able to get the most of of quite a few players who just hadn't panned out while playing for other teams. Players such as Vrable, Compton, Neal, Patten, Ninkovich, Van Noy, etc, etc.

Does BB make mistakes? Yep. He's human. Do players fail to live up to expectations? Yep. Happens all the time all across the league. The difference is that BB has been able to get more out of other players to cover for the inconsistencies than most other head coaches. BB rarely makes the same mistake twice. And he's made a habit of moving on from players before they have "fallen off the cliff" rather than after.

I’m not denying that. But when you whiff on your top picks in the last few years then it’s best to change your approach. I don’t want guys who only Bill thinks he can coach up that nobody else would pick. I want good football players who will make an impact.

You're probably one of those people who claimed Aaron Rodgers was a bust because he sat for 3 seasons behind Favre despite being the 24th overall pick. He played in a total of 7 games, starting NONE.. Why? Because he wasn't ready during the 1st two seasons and during the 3rd one, Favre wasn't ready to give up the reigns. So, if it takes 2-3 seasons for one of the better 1st round QBs to be ready to start, why do you think Stidham is a bust already? And it's not like Rodgers lit things up his first 2 seasons going 9/16 and 6/15 respectively. If you don't think Favre had some stinkers in there and that there weren't calls for Rodgers to be playing, you don't know anty GB fans. Ands No. I'm not saying that Stidham is the next Rodgers. I'm saying that you giving up on him after 2 seasons is just silly especially when BB has said, time and again, players need 3 seasons before you can truly evaluate them.

Amazing how many people are whatabouting elite QBs in this league when talking about Stidham. No idea what they’re looking at that makes them think he has any chance at all of deserving to be mentioned in the same sentence as those guys.

Stidham is also going to be 25 when the next season starts. Brady was a 2 time SB champion at age 25. Rodgers was 21 when drafted and became starter at age 24. Nothing about Stidham is starter worthy. I mean Bill and Josh signed Cam who is broken down and hadn’t played in a year. Why would they do that if Stid was going to be great. Why won’t they start him over a guy who can’t pass. That says it all. He’s a 4th round JAG. Replacing him with a guy just like him will be extremely easy. Replacing a guy like Brady or Rodgers... not so much. Wishful thinking isn’t reality.

 

[203Pat]

BB is the only GM in the history of the NFL with a run this long. Your expectation is that this 19 year run was not long enough and it not continuing is unacceptable. Every other GM in the history of the league has to re-load but you will not stand for it and since their last Super Bowl win was way back in 2018 and they were only 12-4 last year it proves that BB is terrible at roster management. Replacing talent year after year particularly when picking late is not easy. BB has clearly had some drafting misses of late and that is part of current problems but the cap bill was coming due either way and a reckoning was coming, Watch what happens to the Saints this offseason as they try and deal with the cap. Assume they are been terrible at cap management as well.

So because he has been the GM so long we are supposed ignore when his performance slips? If he is continuing to be the general manager he should continue to do well. Why should he get a pass because the first 75% of his tenure was good? Like I said before Tom Brady was covering up his declining roster management skills. Brady was nearly the MVP in 2016. He was the MVP in 2017. 2018 you could start to notice a slight drop off but he could still turn it on when need be and won his toughest post season game of his career against the Chiefs on the road. The 2019 season is where Brady could no longer elevate the bums Bill put around him. Bill whiffed on an adequate swing tackle and relied on a rookie to stay healthy (and he didn't) so Brady spent half a season with a turnstile at LT. Bill whiffed at getting a replacement for Gronk. He then assembled a hodgepodge of JAGs behind Edelman then fell on his face signing AB and trading for Sanu. After watching Cam this year it is even more amazing that Brady had the numbers he did with the supporting cast around him.

There is no bigger load of crap than the whining about "picking late" there is plenty of talent at the end of the first and early second. Bill just isn't picking talented players.

 

[Hammer of Thor]

OK, let's talk about now. Perhaps, now a player like the 2021 equivalent of Diggs would rather play on a team with more SB potential than the patriots will be perceived to have in March or April when many of these decisions are made. Yes, maybe players will play for less for a contender. Or they might play for less for a team with a top QB who will be more of contender with them coming onboard.

Are you really saying that all top WR's available would be just as likely to chose to play for us as for those with a top 10 QB, or a top young QB.

I’m saying money is the dealbreaker for everyone, we just don’t know where that dealbreaking point is for each individual.

The Patriots offer Hunter Henry the same contract as the Packers do, there’s a good chance he’s choosing the Packers. But what if the Patriots offer $2m a year more? That might be enough to entice him - trusting that BB will figure out the QB situation, while maxing himself out for top dollar. That what I mean by full sticker price. Derrick Mason chose Kyle Boller and a few million more over Tom Brady. Kyle freaking Boller. The Patriots can sway some of the big name guys if they want to, but they need to pay to do it.

 

[luuked]

And yet Rodgers was drafted at 24. Brees at 32.. Brady at 199..

You just never know where you will get that Franchise QB

This is so ignorant of context of how Rodgers was highly touted before teams started to overthink it.


The only reason to get a QB in round 1 is either you have access to blue chip talent which is usually gone very fast at that position. Or there is another QB you project can potentially contribute early (i.e. the infamous "pro ready" label).

Assuming that the supposed blue chip choices (i.e. Lawrence and Fields) are gone after the first 10 picks you might as well go for a QB on Day 3 (or trade up at the end of Day 2 if you feel strongly about someone) because odds are that whoever you will get at #15 at another spot will be a much more likely to contribute meaningfully while you keep developing that QB you drafted.

In our case we rarely have had access to the kind of talent pool in the low teens and should fully take advantage of it on defense. Unless someone has a Rodgers like fall the rookie QB can be addressed later with whatever is left.

 

[TomPatriot]

Get Directors of Pro Personnel and College Scouting.
Do a longer, more comprehensive seasonal evaluation than ever before.
Look at a ton of college and pro film.

 

[luuked]

Actually there is proof.

Spygate.

Bill trying to be smarter than everyone else is exactly how that happened.

I don't think you understand what the word "proof" means.

 

[Kontradiction]

patsfan- if/when @KontradictioN sends me over some names and prospects, I will share with you. I think there are a lot of Pat fans that will want to get familiar with some names this offseason. I know we're early in the process, but it will be good to get to know a few.

DRAFT - BGC 2021 Pre-Draft/Patriot-Type Prospect(s) thread

www.patsfans.com

I discuss my impressions of the DT class starting here.

 

[Kontradiction]

Players have a choice. for 20 years, lots of players wanted to play for the patriots, now, not so much,

What are you and @archstanton543 basing this on? Have I missed something?

 

[Hammer of Thor]

I’m not denying that. But when you whiff on your top picks in the last few years then it’s best to change your approach. I don’t want guys who only Bill thinks he can coach up that nobody else would pick. I want good football players who will make an impact.

The talent downgrade (specifically with the draft) seems to have begun around the time of this:
Bill Belichick is only going to bother coaching players that he likes

If there was a shift in draft philosophy due to this, Belichick needs to reassess. Because the drafts had been pretty darn successful prior to that.

 

[luuked]

This year has shown that the franchise QB is the difference maker. BB might be a genius coach but he still can't win with trash at QB.

This year has not shown any of that. If your lesson from this season is that QB was the biggest issue then I am not sure you have watched the correct games.

We have had serious issues at every level and on every unit except maybe the secondary and ST. The QB is just one of the many puzzle pieces that didn't execute. But his performance is connected to extremely inconsistent pass protection and skill position players that drop passes or are not where they are supposed to be.

Similarly, the performance on defense is highly affected by the fact that most teams could just run at us whenever they wanted. What is the point of having players like Winovich or Butler if they only get a handful snaps each game because we are way too rarely in 3rd & longs ? This also automatically devalues the worth of our pretty talented secondary.

Getting a DT that could stabilize the run game the same way someone like Wilfork did would be a much bigger relative improvement than any QB you will be able to get at #15. Most of those QBs who will be available at that spot will still be available in the second round and maybe even in the third (that is if we had a third round pick and it wasn't forfeited thanks to Kraft Media).

 

[mgteich]

.

Getting a DT that could stabilize the run game the same way someone like Wilfork did would be a much bigger relative improvement than any QB you will be able to get at #15..

I think that this true and irrelevant.

I agree that the patriots shouldn't wait for their pick and choose a QB with the same talent as 2nd rounder. If they like one of the top 5, then they should trade up to get him, if possible.

The test, as it was for many teams this year is whether the player has the potential to be a top 10 quarterback. Other than the top 2, I would expect the QB NOT to start for Game 1, while he learns behind a solid veteran.