Should the Pats Acquire Josh Rosen?

[Uptown]

Anybody bringing up Hoyer; please spare us. He sucks. That’s no mystery.

 

[Tony2046]

Anybody bringing up Hoyer; please spare us. He sucks. That’s no mystery.

I see Hoyer as a sideline EP Professor who can mentor the kid in the film room and during the game but also can fill in for a game or two if needed. To me there's value in that.

 

[Uptown]

I see Hoyer as a sideline EP Professor who can mentor the kid in the film room and during the game but also can fill in for a game or two if needed. To me there's value in that.

There’s much value in that, but we’ve known that for some time. I’d much rather take a risk on a young talent in Rosen. Hoyer is what he is and offers absolutely NO upside.

 

[Tony2046]

There’s much value in that, but we’ve known that for some time. I’d much rather take a risk on a young talent in Rosen. Hoyer is what he is and offers absolutely NO upside.

I wouldn't be opposed to having Stid, Rosen and Hoyer.

 

[Uptown]

I wouldn't be opposed to having Stid, Rosen and Hoyer.

Agreed. I can get with that.

 

[mgteich]

We're developing Stidham with 2021 in mind.

There is no fit here. If you buy in on Rosen you're betting on Stidham to fail, and BB won't do that.

I just don't understand this NEW patriot team where competition for positions is not allowed, and one simply assumes that the potential starters will succeed.

In addition, even IF Stidham is a top 10 QB instead of top 35, we will still need a backup for the next three years. I guess folks simply assume that belichick will use a 5th round pick or a UDFA to get our backup next year.

 

[Bourne Again Christian]

I just don't understand this NEW patriot team where competition for positions is not allowed, and one simply assumes that the potential starters will succeed.

In addition, even IF Stidham is a top 10 QB instead of top 35, we will still need a backup for the next three years. I guess folks simply assume that belichick will use a 5th round pick or a UDFA to get our backup next year.

If you think he is better than the 2 UDFAs QBs you bring him in if comp is cheap.

 

[patman52]

No. I like Josh Rosen, but we already have a pretty volatile situation at QB, having 2 talented QBs you aren't sure you can rely on isn't really any better than having just one.

If we did bring in someone I'd rather it be a high floor guy like Jacoby Brissett, a guy who could come in and play some steady, efficient, possession focused football. In that sense, Josh Rosen is the exact opposite of what we need

And you think Brisset is going to come in for 2mill?

 

[luuked]

There’s much value in that, but we’ve known that for some time. I’d much rather take a risk on a young talent in Rosen. Hoyer is what he is and offers absolutely NO upside.

How is that different from Rosen ? After 2 years and two teams giving up on him why would anyone assume there is any upside to him and why isn't he simply who he is ? Just because he was drafted where he was doesn't mean that there is some hidden potential for someone to unlock.

At least Hoyer has shown at times that he can be competent running a complex NFL offense.

I don't get why people want to throw away the safe but unexciting backup QB while we are going through an unprecedented offseason where contact of players with coaches has been trimmed to a minimum due to a pandemic.

It is like people just assume we will throw out the entire philosophy on offense and just pivot to something radically different so experience doesn't matter. No, odds are the offense will be mostly the same as before, with some plays that were there for Brady gone and others that will emphasize Stidham's (or Hoyer's) talents will be added.

 

[mgteich]

How is that different from Rosen ? After 2 years and two teams giving up on him why would anyone assume there is any upside to him and why isn't he simply who he is ? .

After two and half years of poor coaching, we conclude that Rosen is hopeless. After a bit more information than that, we think that Hoyer is better.

In the end, competition is good. IMO, there is much more chance that Rosen COULD be a top 20 quarterback in the NFL than Hoyer. There is more chance that Rosen would be a solid backup in 2020.

Are you really saying that all players judged to have talent and who have played for 2 teams in their first couple of years are hopeless. It you who "assumes". Those of us who favor adding a QB see an opportunity to have a cheap backup and some competition for Stidham, probably more in 2021. Do you really want to look around the league next year for competition if Stidham isn't a top 20 quarterback? Perhaps, we will simply judge him to be a top 20 quarterback because he is ours. We have an opportunity to bring in a backup who could compete with the anointed one. IMO, Rosen has a much better chance at being the 2021 backup than a UDFA who will be on the Practice Squad.

 

[Uptown]

How is that different from Rosen ? After 2 years and two teams giving up on him why would anyone assume there is any upside to him and why isn't he simply who he is ? Just because he was drafted where he was doesn't mean that there is some hidden potential for someone to unlock.

At least Hoyer has shown at times that he can be competent running a complex NFL offense.

I don't get why people want to throw away the safe but unexciting backup QB while we are going through an unprecedented offseason where contact of players with coaches has been trimmed to a minimum due to a pandemic.

It is like people just assume we will throw out the entire philosophy on offense and just pivot to something radically different so experience doesn't matter. No, odds are the offense will be mostly the same as before, with some plays that were there for Brady gone and others that will emphasize Stidham's (or Hoyer's) talents will be added.

Man, save it! Hoyer has no upside. We’re all well aware that he “knows the system.” Nobody’s dismissing that, but it’s time for some change/youth/competition at the QB position. It’s a new day.

 

[scott99]

I see Hoyer as a sideline EP Professor who can mentor the kid in the film room and during the game but also can fill in for a game or two if needed. To me there's value in that.

In his defense, he's also a good scout team QB. That's been pretty much well documented. A very cerebral guy too, I remember he watched Tough Cuts or whatever that show is called, it was the Rams version, and he was able to pick up some trends that helped the defense prepare for SB 53.

 

[Sfpat]

After two and half years of poor coaching, we conclude that Rosen is hopeless. After a bit more information than that, we think that Hoyer is better.

In the end, competition is good. IMO, there is much more chance that Rosen COULD be a top 20 quarterback in the NFL than Hoyer. There is more chance that Rosen would be a solid backup in 2020.

Are you really saying that all players judged to have talent and who have played for 2 teams in their first couple of years are hopeless. It you who "assumes". Those of us who favor adding a QB see an opportunity to have a cheap backup and some competition for Stidham, probably more in 2021. Do you really want to look around the league next year for competition if Stidham isn't a top 20 quarterback? Perhaps, we will simply judge him to be a top 20 quarterback because he is ours. We have an opportunity to bring in a backup who could compete with the anointed one. IMO, Rosen has a much better chance at being the 2021 backup than a UDFA who will be on the Practice Squad.

If you've spent 5 minutes reading this board, the answer is most definitely yes if they were drafted by the Patriots.

 

[Simpelton]

And you think Brisset is going to come in for 2mill?

I think the odds of the Colts releasing him to cut their losses are pretty decent with the signing of Phillip Rivers.

Besides, I'm using Brissett as an example of a type of a tweener starter/backup who can start for an extended period if required, but isn't "supposed" to take over the team. Ryan Fitzpatrick is another example of the same type, so is Teddy Bridgewater and Tyrod Taylor. There's plenty of guys out there who can start if they have to, but if they're doing it for an extended period, it means the plan has failed.

And I could easily see the Patriots making a move for a guy like that if the money made sense, as an insurance policy, even if they had to move some contracts around to do it. When you have a rookie starter but want to be competitive even if he has growing pains, it's a fairly conventional play.

that said, if we do invest in a guy like that I'd love it to be Brissett, he's not a conventionally flashy QB, he's not gonna put up huge numbers, but he's also not going to give the ball away, his turnover rate was one of the lowest among NFL starters last year, and that's valuable. I think Brissett could lead a team with a good rushing attack into the playoffs. He was off to a good start at doing that before he hurt his knee last year.

 

[Simpelton]

I just don't understand this NEW patriot team where competition for positions is not allowed, and one simply assumes that the potential starters will succeed.

you missed the point. frankly, if you want competition for a guy like stidham it needs to be a high floor guy, which Rosen absolutely isn't.

A guy like Nick Foles, Teddy Bridgewater or Jacoby Brissett? Absolutely. But not Rosen, He's the guy you bring in to develop behind an established starter, or otherwise you bring him in if you're in a tank year because what the heck, there's nothing to lose and he might show you something. Neither situation applies to the Patriots.

Here's a secret: I was all for bring in Rosen last year. Last year it made sense, because we had an established starter and Rosen could get his feet under him as a backup and build some confidence. If we brought Rosen in now there's a very strong possibility that we reach a situation where the only viable option is to throw him to the wolves, and we already know twice over that he can't handle that.

The team that's going to salvage Rosen is one that can build some solid structure on him and protect him while he relearns the QB position. That team is not the Patriots. We're too fragile at the starting position for a backup off the salvage pile.

If I had my pick of the entire league for a backup QB right now it would be Nick Mullens from the 49ers. Dude looked solid a couple years back when he was thrown into the fire after Garoppolo and Beathard got hurt, and I'd rather have a young high floor guy backup Stidham right now.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

A thousand no's to Josh Rosen

.

 

[signbabybrady]

Man, save it! Hoyer has no upside. We’re all well aware that he “knows the system.” Nobody’s dismissing that, but it’s time for some change/youth/competition at the QB position. It’s a new day.

It's more than knows the system he has starting experience and even lead a team to the playoffs. You can say what you want about his upside but there is a proven baseline that BB appears more than comfortable with.

 

[Doctor DDS]

If BB thinks Rosen has the potential to become a top 10 QB then he should make the move. The fact the Cardinals drafted over him and the Dolphins gave him barely a look despite being in a situation where you'd think he'd be the obviously choice to learn on the fly are certainly red flags. No question that he has been in a tough spot so far but since he is already starting year 3 he needs to really pop soon as the advantage of having him on the cheap ends relatively soon if he flashes promise.

 

[luuked]

Man, save it! Hoyer has no upside. We’re all well aware that he “knows the system.” Nobody’s dismissing that, but it’s time for some change/youth/competition at the QB position. It’s a new day.

Again, because you keep ignoring the main point here.

In what universe is this bonkers offseason where practice and coaching time has been totally gutted the time to swap the QB with experience and who already established he can run the offense competently for a total wildcard that has lost his job twice in his first two years.

And it is not only that he lost his job in Miami but he got benched trying to run the very same offense we run. And failed.

I get that some people prefer to go for the high variance lottery tickets that have a small chance of paying off but QB is not the place for that unless you want to throw the season. Something BB is clearly not interested in doing. He wants to win.

Despite his depressing average skillset odds are Hoyer will still give you more in this specific year with this particular offense than Rosen.

 

[Bourne Again Christian]

Again, because you keep ignoring the main point here.

In what universe is this bonkers offseason where practice and coaching time has been totally gutted the time to swap the QB with experience and who already established he can run the offense competently for a total wildcard that has lost his job twice in his first two years.

And it is not only that he lost his job in Miami but he got benched trying to run the very same offense we run. And failed.

I get that some people prefer to go for the high variance lottery tickets that have a small chance of paying off but QB is not the place for that unless you want to throw the season. Something BB is clearly not interested in doing. He wants to win.

Despite his depressing average skillset odds are Hoyer will still give you more in this specific year with this particular offense than Rosen.

Our offensive assistant was Rosens oc in college that counts for something we know all we need to know about Rosen from him.
I wouldn’t be shocked either way but I think it’s Stidhams job to lose Rosen as a number 2 I would take over Hoyer Hoyer should really move to a QB coach