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CLICK HERE to Register for a free account and login for a smoother ad-free experience. It's easy, and only takes a few moments.I’m guessing there was a malfunction somewhere. The pilot turning so aggressively and then nose diving into the hills at 184 mph just seems bizarre.
Wow!In the aviation community it is called spacial disorientation. It generally happens when you lose sight of the horizon. It could be sunset, sunrise or clouds. Clouds are generally the culprit. It is based on physiology and the inner ear. Since you are in forward motion with no clear reference of the horizon your mind thinks one thing and you feel another. Meaning you could swear you are in a left turn, when in reality you are in a right turn.
This was I believe an F16 guy who had zero idea what was up left right or down.
It is scary and it is lethal.
My old plane we had a “*****ing betty” terrain warning system. “Terrain terrain, pull up, pull up.” Half the time we would turn the audio off because she thought we were always going to crash. In this instance it probably would not have helped and helos operate low as a rule anyways. Nope, he should have just stopped and figured things out.
The low terrain was to his right and he went left. He got confused.
Example of potential spatial disorientation from 2011:
Two crewmembers and five passengers aboard a Sikorsky S-92 operated in IMC by Cougar Helicopters were only 38 feet above the waters of the Atlantic Ocean when the pilot, having suffered a bout of spatial disorientation, regained control of the helicopter, according to a September 12 report from Canada’s Transportation Safety Board. The incident occurred on July 23, 2011, 217 miles southeast of St. John’s, Newfoundland.
During the IMC departure procedure from the Sea Rose oil platform, the captain made a large, rapid aft cyclic input just before the cyclic trim button was released and the autopilot’s go-around mode engaged. This caused the helicopter to enter a nose-high, decelerating pitch attitude that neither pilot noticed, possibly due to brightening within the ****pit that they interpreted as clear skies just above.
The airspeed of the helicopter continued to decrease, eventually to within 5 knots of the minimum control speed in instrument meteorological conditions (VMINI) when the captain momentarily pressed the cyclic force trim release button and made an aft cyclic input. This caused the helicopter’s airspeed to decrease below VMINI, and the helicopter to enter a 23-degree nose-high attitude followed by a descent toward the water.
“The captain, subtly incapacitated possibly due to spatial disorientation, did not lower the nose of the helicopter and apply collective to recover from the nose-high attitude,” concluded the report. “This contributed to the excessive amount of altitude that was lost during the inadvertent descent.”
The helicopter broke out of the clouds at 200 feet above sea level as full power was added to both engines, over-torquing both. The crew did not regain full control until the aircraft was 38 feet above sea level.
The helicopter eventually landed safely at St. John’s.
Right and helicopters are for the most part perfectly safe operating down near the terrain. Hell, that’s basically why they operate. Places where you can’t get an airplane- like around mountains. So a *****ing Betty telling me I’m around mountains all the time will probably not be helpful. I fly planes and I would never think of taking a plane as low as I take a helicopter but obviously it’s a lot more dangerous to be that low in a plane. On the other hand if I’m in the clouds I much prefer an airplane.Well in the military we operated fixed wing down at 2-300 agl at night on NVGs. Of course had terrain mapping radar and FLIR to help us along. Even then a mistake made 5 miles before a ridgeline it would have been game over. There were times I wished I was in a helo since you can just throw it into a hover fairly quickly and not slam into a mountain.
Funny story. We were up in Alaska for an exercise. It was dark, and I mean dark up in the mountains. We were down in a valley and the valley curved to the right. As we were coming up to the turn, I called out a climb to clear terrain. It had been pre briefed but the pilots forgot I guess. I called it again and finally in the turn we started climbing. As we got further a land bridge type of terrain was right there. Had we stayed at our current altitude we would have flew right into it. Thank god for satellite imagery and route study that was pounded into our brains.
I can only imagine all the stuff you helo guys have to watch out for. Power lines probably being at the top.
I think the 180 is at the end. Essentially the speed he was falling from the sky.My question is, why would the pilot continue to be at speeds of over 180mph when apparently it only takes 15mph to maintain a hover.
Why not wait it out, especially if it's true that he most certainly would of seen the hillside they only missed by a 100 feet.
Just literally a series of unfortunate events.
I think the 180 is at the end. Essentially the speed he was falling from the sky.
From what I know of this helicopter it cannot fly that speed unless it’s in a dive. Especially with how heavy it was. The data I saw had them flying a little over 115 most of the flight until at the end the speed spiked in a dive. But that’s not extremely fast. However I would not fly that speed in poor weather. Like you said an obvious advantage in a helo is the ability to fly slow. Or if the weather looks like crap simply stop.So they're coming to the conclusion that they were falling and not flying?
I did read somewhere that they believe they hit hillside but I also read other stuff.
So they're coming to the conclusion that they were falling and not flying?
I did read somewhere that they believe they hit hillside but I also read other stuff.
In the aviation community it is called spacial disorientation. It generally happens when you lose sight of the horizon. It could be sunset, sunrise or clouds. Clouds are generally the culprit. It is based on physiology and the inner ear. Since you are in forward motion with no clear reference of the horizon your mind thinks one thing and you feel another. Meaning you could swear you are in a left turn, when in reality you are in a right turn.
This was I believe an F16 guy who had zero idea what was up left right or down.
It is scary and it is lethal.
There was a helicopter in Florida that accidentally started flying backwards over the water. They did not realize it.
In the aviation community it is called spacial disorientation. It generally happens when you lose sight of the horizon. It could be sunset, sunrise or clouds. Clouds are generally the culprit. It is based on physiology and the inner ear. Since you are in forward motion with no clear reference of the horizon your mind thinks one thing and you feel another. Meaning you could swear you are in a left turn, when in reality you are in a right turn.
This was I believe an F16 guy who had zero idea what was up left right or down.
It is scary and it is lethal.
That is interesting.I read the operator was not certified IFR for 135 operations.
In my opinion this is the problem though. A perfect pilot would have avoided this accident. And no doubt the perfection of this pilot avoided many accidents. But when we’re talking passengers perfection shouldn’t be what’s required. If the safety of the passengers requires one guy being perfect than its lacking in my opinion.
Neither of the two suggestions by the NTSB would have prevented this accident based on what they’ve said so far.