The Pats need a new direction on draft/FA signings

[shmessy]

Chung was terrible his first stint in New England and BB admitted that he was playing Chung out of position which contributed to him not playing well. Butler was terrible. Volmer was the best impact player. It took Eldelman five years to become the player he is now.

Chung playing out of position was Belichick the Coach’s fault. Butler had a very good 9 year NFL career as did Brandon Tate. Vollmer and Edelman became bedrock Patriots as did Chung.

 

[varjao]

What the Pats really need is a ST coach who believes in having a punt returner line up where he could actually field a punt instead of letting the other team pin us on our 1 yard line. Said ST coach could also, perhaps, whisper in our punters ear that when he punts from within the other teams territory it might be a good idea not to consistently punt it into the end zone.

That would help greatly.

Thats maybe a hot topic for another thread but I’ve seen the Patriots losing these little details and situational football smarts they had a lot recently.

 

[pheenix11]

 

[Deus Irae]

Today was a rough one. The game was a disappointment, and the team and coaches looked bad. But can we please stop throwing away the rest of the era along with this one sub par season? They won the Super Bowl just last year.

BB's not a bad GM. He's just not as great as the homers make him out to be, and that's ok, because he's still usually pretty good at implementing his strategy. In today's U.S. major sports, no strategy is going to be 100% successful over the course of multiple decades.

 

[drewskie]

Its absolutely true that we havent been able to draft skill position guys like say Shytsburg has with WRs.

Michel over Chubb?
Harry over Metcalf?

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Its absolutely true that we havent been able to draft skill position guys like say Shytsburg has with WRs.

Michel over Chubb?
Harry over Metcalf?

McDaniels

 

[NYCPATS4LIFE]

Today was a rough one. The game was a disappointment, and the team and coaches looked bad. But can we please stop throwing away the rest of the era along with this one sub par season? They won the Super Bowl just last year.

BB's not a bad GM. He's just not as great as the homers make him out to be, and that's ok, because he's still usually pretty good at implementing his strategy. In today's U.S. major sports, no strategy is going to be 100% successful over the course of multiple decades.

This will be one of the most interesting offseasons in a long time. Idk if brady will call it quits. If he does what a career. What can you say. Goat. I also don’t know how much more cap space they can free up.

 

[shmessy]

Thats maybe a hot topic for another thread but I’ve seen the Patriots losing these little details and situational football smarts they had a lot recently.

Absolutely. It’s what separates them from the rest of the league. It was their competitive edge that no one else could muster. They lost it this year down the stretch and looked uncharacteristically lost at times. It wasn’t the “situational football” that BB famously preached for years. Once again the loss of 3 key experienced assistant coaches in the offseason with three inexperienced coaches replacing them fundamentally hurt this team.

.

 

[DaBruinz]

The Pats need a Professional GM with total autonomy.

I don't know how would they work this out, but I think BB should stay only on coaching duty. Obviously he can have a say here and there, but the Pats needs to reevaluate all ther scouting and draft process. The results aren't good enough. Our best WR is a 7th rounder QB converted to WR. When they don't get lucky to have Gronks or Hernandez slid to them, they don't do well enough.

You can't make this stuff, why did they spent high draft picks in a RB and a CB who never saw the field, when last February, in the SB was pretty clear this offense was flawed. They only had Edelman back then at WR, one year has passed and didn't change. No Gronk? Ok let's not worry about even try to draft a TE in the higher rounds.

Im not pulling that BS card BB the GM is killing BB the coach. It's just business, the drafts haven't been good, the FA signings pretty questionable and there's a need for acountability. You have a 42 years old playing with a bunch of homeless, give me a break, they should do better than that.

My comments are not based on this season's outcome only. The drafting process haven't been good for a while. All this Patriots type players BS, sometimes passing on better talent. I don't know.

SMH.. Claiming the drafts haven't been good is an asinine opinion. It's certainly not fact.

The problem with the entirety of your spiel is this..
You expect Belichick to be clairvoyant and KNOW who is going to get injured..

Let's look at the injuries on the offense:
N'Keal Harry - Fluke ankle injury.

Isaiah Wynn - Had a fluke injury last year tearing his achilles. Suffered turf toe this year. Both injuries were flukes. Wynn hadn't been injured during his college career.

Develin - Suffered a neck injury that may force him to retire

Jacobson - Who's heard of TWO FBs going out during a season? I hadn't.

Froholdt - Injured late in TC.

Cajuste - Didn't heal properly from his injury that occurred prior to being drafted.

Andrews - Blood clot in his lungs near the end of TC.

Garcia - Blood clots in his lungs

Winovich - Fantastic

Bailey - Fantastic

Dawson - Traded because the depth at CB was so deep.

Crossen - Traded because the depth at CB was so deep.

Bentley - I bet you foresaw him going onto IR last season.

Michel - Missed 3 games and them proceeded to put up over 1200 yards rushing including the play-offs.

Christian Sam - Was on his way to making the team before being injured as a rookie.

Ryan Izzo - had a strong camp as a rookie before being injured. Made the team out of camp this year.

Derek Rivers - 3 straight years he ended up on the IR..

Wise - played well as a situational player.

JoeJuan Williams - Probably the replacement for Chung next year. Covering TEs and Slot receivers. Played well when he was on the field.

Damien Harris was insurance since Burkhead had suffered big injuries the 2 previous seasons. The addition of Bolden made the RBs the deepest group on the team.

The Pats brought in 5 veteran TEs (Watson, Kendricks, LaCosse, ASJ, Saubert). How was BB supposed to know that Watson and Kendricks would end up with suspensions? How was BB supposed to know that ASJ would decide to step away from the game? How was BB supposed to know that LaCosse would end up missing 5 games due to injury? You, like many others fail to acknowledge that Gronk played footsie with the Pats teasing everyone when he knew damn well he wasn't coming back. And it cost them Jared Cook. Yeah.. Cook said, flat out, he chose the Saints because he felt Gronk was coming back and he didn't want to be 2nd fiddle to Gronk. And Gronk waited until AFTER Cook's signing to make his announcement.

Newsflash for you. None of the rookie TEs that could have been had early in the draft were wart free. Irv Smith was more of a move TE than a Gronk/ combo TE. Josh Oliver, Jace Sternberger and Warring had their seasons cut short by Injury. Sample and Knox were projects..

So. You'll forgive everyone for thinking your OP is ridiculous. Nothing you've offered is remotely close to a realistic opinion based in facts. Claiming that the SB showed a flaw in the offense is laughable. Truly and totally.

 

[Shockt327]

Are you talking the first round? Cause I’m not. What’s the excuse for the huge reaches like Dawson? The trade ups for guys like Williams that can’t even see the field beyond ST? The drafting of guys that are already damaged goods?

There are plenty of sound players to be taken that can contribute (I’m not calling for stars), and that has nothing to do with drafting later in the rounds.

I'm simply pointing out the the odds of drafting an impact player go down round by round; and it's worse when your are drafting at the end of the each round year after year. For example; There's roughly a 55% chance of drafting a Pro Bowler in the 1st rd, 45% chance in the 2nd round, 35% chance in the 3rd (which includes comp picks). After that? It's a crapshoot.

My point? Those results (obviously) go even further down the later you pick in each round. Why? Because when Belichick (or any GM) compiles their own list of perceived 1st rd caliber talent 1) there are, inevitability, a ratio of hits-to-misses on any GM's draft board and 2) it's pretty safe to assume the lower you get down any draft board, in any round, it will inevitably get worse and worse the further, and further, you have to go down. So, when you get a top 10 pick? Even if the your list itself was lesser, you'll still have better odds of getting a quality players than a smater GM who drafts lower.

So, for example, when you are stuck at 20-32 (year after year)? Good luck, because the other guy is almost certainly going to take your pick away. See, that's the difference between drafting a Chandler Jones and getting stuck with Courtney Upshaw. Was Belichick a genius and Newsome an idiot? Nope, actually both, clearly, had Jones in mind. Newsome even traded down afterwards, because he correctly knew the next guy on his short list was much lesser. But one GM took the better player away first. It could've easily been the opposite way around. That's just one story. But no ones takes that into consideration.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Its absolutely true that we havent been able to draft skill position guys like say Shytsburg has with WRs.

Michel over Chubb?
Harry over Metcalf?

The good news was that the Pats were able to put together a better team overall than Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh also couldn’t put together a defense that could match up with Brady and their offense.

 

[DaBruinz]

BB and Caesario had a couple of bad calls but the biggest fck up was dictated by Bend Over Bob so can't blame him for that. Plus Gordon bailing on us backfired but I don't remember a ton of people critisizing BB at start of the season for retaining Gordon. The obvious issues were lack of WR help (and they tried with Adam Humphries but clearly should have tried for trade early in offseason instead of wasting a 2nd rounder later at useless Sanu). And then probably the most glaring was the TE position which crippled the running game as well as hit the passing game. Still, one bad season of FO performance doesn't mean personnel turnover. They need to learn from their mistakes, and I am sure they will, and keep trucking.

Hey BUFFY.. TE wasn't what crippled the run game. It was losing Andrews, Wynn, and Develin primarily. This was proven by them getting Wynn back and the run game coming alive with Roberts acting as a FB and Karras doing a much better Andrews impression.

 

[DaBruinz]

Needing “a change” is swinging the pendulum too far, but BB does deserve to get ripped for this horrendous 2019 draft class.

I’ve said it before, but you can not afford to red shirt basically an entire draft class when you have SB aspirations, and an aging roster (most notably the 42 y/o QB).

Sometimes there’s just too much “smartest guy in the room” here...is MAYBE getting a value pick in guys like Cajuste really worth it? Of course not, yet here we are.

Killing? idk... but Bill the GM certainly hasn’t been doing himself any favors as of late. Sony looked more like a 35 y/o RB tonight

You're a joke. You can't judge a draft class based on a single year.

It was the 2018 draft class that was basically redshirted (6 of 9). Not the 2019. And they were redshirted due to legitimate injury. Because it happens.
Harry, Williams, Harris, Winovich, Cowart, Stidham, and Bailey ALL saw playing time. That is 7 out of 10 guys they drafted. Yes, Harry went to the IR for half the season. Cajuste and Froholdt ended being lost for the season.

BTW, you have no F'in clue what setbacks Cajuste had from the surgery. So claiming he couldn't handle the rigors of the pro game makes you sound like a total J**K ***.

 

[catent]

You're a joke. You can't judge a draft class based on a single year.

It was the 2018 draft class that was basically redshirted (6 of 9). Not the 2019. And they were redshirted due to legitimate injury. Because it happens.
Harry, Williams, Harris, Winovich, Cowart, Stidham, and Bailey ALL saw playing time. That is 7 out of 10 guys they drafted. Yes, Harry went to the IR for half the season. Cajuste and Froholdt ended being lost for the season.

BTW, you have no F'in clue what setbacks Cajuste had from the surgery. So claiming he couldn't handle the rigors of the pro game makes you sound like a total J**K ***.

Hard to embrace the content of your position (which is legitimate in my opinion) when you call another poster a “joke” and a “jackass”.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[shmessy]

Hard to embrace the content of your position (which is legitimate in my opinion) when you call another poster a “joke” and a “jackass”.

Just my 2 cents.

Some folks have more emotional difficulty dealing with end of season losses than others.

 

[DaBruinz]

What about all the rest? They basically weren’t even good enough to have a rookie year for crying out loud.

Chase looks serviceable, and I believe Harry has potential despite plenty of naysayers. Those two alone don’t make up for again... the rest of the entire class not being worth even playing (outside Bailey).

Clearly you're ignorant and didn't watch Bailey, Williams or Cowart. Bailey is an All-Pro punter in the making. Williams looked very good for a rookie and I don't remember him getting beat for any huge gain. Cowart has potential to be another Adam Butler or Jarvis Green.

You clearly don't understand what a depth chart. There are reasons that Cowart, Williams, and Harris didn't get snaps. Because of the depth at their positions.

For example. At RB, you had Michel, Burkhead, White, and Bolden ahead of Harris. Much like White had Vereen Blount, Bolden, and Ridley ahead of him during his rookie year. And White still didn't see the field when Blount and Ridley went down because White was the backup to Vereen.

Williams was behind Gilmore, Jackson, Jones, and Jason McCourty. Williams saw time only when Jones or McCourty were out. Not because Williams is bad. But because the other players are better.

That seems to be a concept that is foreign to you and varajo.

 

[catent]

Some folks have more emotional difficulty dealing with end of season losses than others.

Yep. Bruinz is always like this.

I find him disrespectful and condescending towards other posters despite the fact that I often agree with his positions.

 

[Shockt327]

Reese’s first draft in 2009 draft was actually pretty bad considering how many picks they had and where they were. The 2010 to 12 classes were the ones that started their Super Bowl run in 2014.

This is a perfect example of what it looks like when a fan simply does not get it. The 2009 draft was historically bad...

But NE (and GB) still walked away with two of the top 15 players that came out of that draft in Career AV....and you actually whine and expect better results. How sad.

2009 NFL Draft Listing | Pro-Football-Reference.com

 

[NYCPATS4LIFE]

People will look at the OL but they played very well tonight. Don’t know what will happen with thuney but don’t forget about the injuries there. We shall see what cajuste can be. I thought he was very talented player for West Virginia when he was on the field.

 

[shmessy]

People will look at the OL but they played very well tonight. Don’t know what will happen with thuney but don’t forget about the injuries there. We shall see what cajuste can be. I thought he was very talented player for West Virginia when he was on the field.

Im excited to see Froholdt also. Losing Thuney (if that happens) will indeed hurt because he is a special player physically and mentally, but Im not sure it may be the paralyzing disaster many fear.
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