Evan Lazar's take on all 87 guys in training camp

[maust]

Are we ready to move on from Wise or Rivers? Or still serviceable on rookie deals? They are in danger of being labelled JAGs and/or busts

DE's don't exactly always blossom immediately under BB, I hope to be pleasantly surprised by at least one of them this season.

 

[slam]

"Duron Harmon – Harmon could be a surprise cut. He’s a serviceable backup, but he lacks the anticipatory skills to be a real difference-maker on the backend."

What??! Is this a joke?

wow, most shocking thing I read over his take on all 87 guys

Yes. I wouldn't have flinched at a "Still pretty good but might lose out to a numbers game" take, but in a late and close playoff game we've come to expect Harmon to be the one to swoop in and pick off the last ditch desperation heave.

 

[SBLIII]

Nobody is claiming that Harmon is a stud but he is a solid backup at safety we have no replacement at this point. Unless Obi will be trusted and BB wants to make a huge trade and needs the cap, a cut wouldn't be logical.

 

[patchick]

Are we ready to move on from Wise or Rivers? Or still serviceable on rookie deals? They are in danger of being labelled JAGs and/or busts

Wise played over 40% of defensive snaps last year, I consider him a solid pro. The whispers of him being on the bubble are mostly about current scheme fit. As for Rivers, eh, yeah, he hasn't amounted to what we hoped at all.

I think expectations were somewhat skewed for Rivers because the Patriots didn't draft at all that year until the end of round 3, so he was their "first" pick. He was actually the 15th DE taken that year, and almost all of the DEs drafted after him have been waived by their drafting teams already. One of the few exceptions who has clearly outplayed him is...Deatrich Wise.

 

[BTTA]

DE may not have the level of top-line talent of some other positions, but it's going to be a really tough cutdown. IMO Bennett, Winovich, Wise, Simon, Calhoun, Rivers and maybe even Harris seem like they belong on a roster. How many do the Pats keep?

On the other end of the spectrum, swing tackle is paper-thin. I would anticipate a trade/pickup, except the whole league is thin on OTs.

Are we ready to move on from Wise or Rivers? Or still serviceable on rookie deals? They are in danger of being labelled JAGs and/or busts

Most roster pickers have them keeping five. Bennet, Winovich, and Simon seem like locks. Calhoun has, from what info we've been provided, outplayed both of Rivers and Wise so far this year. Is that enough to replace one of them?

 

[Patjew]

Are we ready to move on from Wise or Rivers? Or still serviceable on rookie deals? They are in danger of being labelled JAGs and/or busts

From what I’ve heard, Rivers has been having a solid camp.

 

[Kdo5]

"Duron Harmon – Harmon could be a surprise cut. He’s a serviceable backup, but he lacks the anticipatory skills to be a real difference-maker on the backend."

What??! Is this a joke?

wow, most shocking thing I read over his take on all 87 guys

Both Bedard and Lazar have mentioned this, maybe Lazar is piggy backing off of him. I don’t get it at all. I have not heard anything to suggest Harmon has dipped in his play this offseason. The guy is a veteran of our system, a one time captain, reliable, durable, and has big game experience.

Oh and who exactly would be pushing him out for a roster spot?

 

[patchick]

From what I’ve heard, Rivers has been having a solid camp.

Yep! The problem is that guys like Winovich and Calhoun have been having even better camps. At this point it looks like a numbers issue.

 

[Scotty]

Rivers had an unlucky start last season but has he shown enough over someone like Calhoun this season. I think Wise knows the system having played last year. If it is one player then wise may shade it , if it's two then I think they will go with wise and Calhoun.

 

[Uptown]

 

[JPPT1974]

Seems like everybody wants Bailey to win the job. Ryan Allen will have to punt his rear end off.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Wise played over 40% of defensive snaps last year, I consider him a solid pro. The whispers of him being on the bubble are mostly about current scheme fit. As for Rivers, eh, yeah, he hasn't amounted to what we hoped at all.

I think expectations were somewhat skewed for Rivers because the Patriots didn't draft at all that year until the end of round 3, so he was their "first" pick. He was actually the 15th DE taken that year, and almost all of the DEs drafted after him have been waived by their drafting teams already. One of the few exceptions who has clearly outplayed him is...Deatrich Wise.

Yeah, I expect Rivers to be cut, he's just too deep into his career to have shown so little. It sucks that he lost his first year, but this is what usually happens to guys who miss their rookie season. IMO he's the kind of guy you keep around if you don't have a ton at the position anyway, but if someone is outplaying him (like Calhoun) then you move on.

Wise, OTOH, I'd be pretty surprised if he's cut. Too good to be an outright cut, I could maybe see him being traded to the Lions or something if they love Cowart and he's on the wrong side of the numbers game but even that would be a bit of a surprise I think.

 

[Kdo5]

Seems like everybody wants Bailey to win the job. Ryan Allen will have to punt his rear end off.

I admit I haven’t paid much attention punting stats. Was Ryan Allen not very good last season? He was terrific in the Super Bowl.

 

[PP2]

I would hope so. Stick with the what, Evan. Do not try to go into the why.

He gets paid pennies but puts in 10x the work that Ben Vomit does.

 

[rochrist]

Are we ready to move on from Wise or Rivers? Or still serviceable on rookie deals? They are in danger of being labelled JAGs and/or busts

Rivers has had a really good camp.

 

[PP2]

I admit I haven’t paid much attention punting stats. Was Ryan Allen not very good last season? He was terrific in the Super Bowl.

He was absolutely stellar in the superbowl, but judging from last night- the fact that Bailey was consistently used as holder (even after messing up, causing Ghost to miss) is very telling.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Nobody is claiming that Harmon is a stud but he is a solid backup at safety we have no replacement at this point. Unless Obi will be trusted and BB wants to make a huge trade and needs the cap, a cut wouldn't be logical.

He would be a starting safety for quite a few teams.

 

[catent]

Cut-downs are giving me mild anxiety (and I only say that 90% sarcastically).

Lots of talent at WR and DB, and especially DL. It's going to be a hard decision making process and I expect we'll see a player or two cut that we collectively feel is a strong player/could contribute.

Ultimately have to trust Belichick, Caserio et. al to make the best decisions for the team as a whole.

 

[mgteich]

How about 5 from your list: Bennett, Winovich, Wise, Simon and Calhoun? I don't that Rivers or Harris are difficult cuts, presuming that the rest are healthy. Calhoun has a major step up, being a top Ster.
============
We would then keep 4 from from Pennel, Guy, Shelton, Butler and Cowart (presumably cutting either Cowart or Butler).
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How hard are the cuts of Rivers, Harris, and Cowart (or Butler)? I don't think that this is much more difficult than in past years.

DE may not have the level of top-line talent of some other positions, but it's going to be a really tough cutdown. IMO Bennett, Winovich, Wise, Simon, Calhoun, Rivers and maybe even Harris seem like they belong on a roster. How many do the Pats keep?

On the other end of the spectrum, swing tackle is paper-thin. I would anticipate a trade/pickup, except the whole league is thin on OTs.

 

[captain stone]

Yes. I wouldn't have flinched at a "Still pretty good but might lose out to a numbers game" take, but in a late and close playoff game we've come to expect Harmon to be the one to swoop in and pick off the last ditch desperation heave.

You mean like the one Wilson threw to Kearse?