Kraft Orchids Case - Prosecuters Want a Tug Rule?

[Tony2046]

Very minor illegal activity. But if the goal was human trafficking, they don’t make these aressts nor do they watch videos of handjobs while women are being held captive...if they were being held captive

And we know they weren’t

They lived and worked in the spas. Ok they weren't chained to their beds but damn.

Kraft is defending his legacy, his name etc... which is his right to do. But he is also potentially blowing up an investigation into human trafficking by hiring top dollar lawyers to clear his name which is just sad and pathetic.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Yes, I’ve noticed how ignorant you are on this subject and have no desire to actually educate yourself.

XLIX what can I say? You’re a worthy foe when we disagree on a topic. What shall we do? I just watched Hamilton last night...a duel, perhaps?

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Jupiter PD wanted a big fish and now they're gonna wish they didn't catch such a big one. Kraft has enough money to discover and reveal all their mistakes. Citizens have rights, but most of us don't have the kind of money it takes to protect our rights. Bob does.

This seems to be heading for a "mutually assured destruction" scenario: The police threaten to leak the HJ video, the Kraft team threatens to show how incompetent the police are in court. Who blinks first?

Couldn’t say it better.

 

[Chevrolet]

Oh and by the way, whether Kraft gets out of the misdemeanor or not, he’s going to get sanctioned by the NFL, and it will be done after the video is inevitably released.

Believe me, I am not happy about being right about this and a cannot understand why he did this, damaging both his own reputation and the franchise’s.

Terrible.

It is because he is a human being and makes mistakes. Even a billionaire can sometimes do something stupid.
Who on this board has not done something they seriously regret on a yearly basis.
It would show great class if the patriots fan base could forgive him for this relatoively minor decisional error.

 

[denverpatsfan]

Here is a 31 year ex-FBI agent describing a sex trafficking case in Michigan that the FBI investigated with local LE. They went after the operators, didn't use cameras, didn't charge the girls, didn't charge the Johns, used traditional investigative methods and got convictions and closed the operation down.

This is 100% opposite to what was done in Martin/Jupiter with opposite results. Reading this has me convinced this was nothing but a fishing expedition by LE, an abuse of the sneak and peak warrants to bust a local prostitution ring and embarrass the johns.

Ex-FBI Agent: Robert Kraft Case in Florida Reminds Me of Our Ann Arbor Investigation

Could not agree more.

 

[Huckleberry1]

If Kraft wins this, it gives him a huge advantage with the NFL on the matter. People saying Kraft is fighting for his legacy are correct. His LEGACY is as a very successful NFL owner. Rest assured, this is the correct course for him. If he pleas guilty or no contest, the league has something of legal tangible value to point to. If the case is thrown out, the league has hearsay.

The correct move here for Kraft on all fronts is to fight this tooth and nail. Whatever "damage" he may have done to himself with the league has already been done. The league is not going to fault him worse for exercising his legal rights to defend himself in a court of law.

Disagree completely. Ezekiel Elliott was cleared of all charges, and the woman the NFL hired as their expert in violence against women situations concluded that no punishment should be doled out to Elliott and Goodell hammered him anyways. And that is what will happen here, regardless of what a jury might find Goodell is going to hammer Kraft.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

We're just like OJ.

Yeah unfortunately that case has skewed what “a technicality” is for many. Sometimes it is some real BS like you forgot to wait four seconds before reading Miranda rights. Other times, you’re revealing that the police may just actually have been the worse of two evils and allowing their tactics to stand is a non-starter.

 

[Bill Lee]

When the video comes out, I hope everyone remembers that what is seen cannot be unseen...

Kraft is defending his legacy, his name etc... which is his right to do. But he is also potentially blowing up an investigation into human trafficking by hiring top dollar lawyers to clear his name which is just sad and pathetic.

If LE actually had a human trafficking case, they would never be bragging about the johns they bagged and say the case is ongoing, they would have bagged the traffickers and then the johns then paraded them all together. Parading the johns around guarantees the traffickers will destroy whatever evidence they can and scatter. Thus it is almost certain there is no trafficking case to be destroyed and they're just going after the johns so they can show they bagged someone after spending months on the investigation.

 

[Tony2046]

Not only is this what I think, but in many jurisdictions, this is what police actually do each and every day. Police ignore minor stuff routinely to get to bigger fish and I'm thankful they do. Otherwise, we'd be in a world of hurt right now.

Ignoring five miles over the speed limit is one thing but ignoring county wide prostitution ring is another.

 

[XLIX]

XLIX what can I say? You’re a worthy foe when we disagree on a topic. What shall we do? I just watched Hamilton last night...a duel, perhaps?

You’ll have to wait about a month. I’m seeing it on April 17th.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Show me evidence that it was a false claim to get the warrant. That would change everything but there is no evidence of that.
Sorry “my friend thinks” doesn’t cut it

Please link that, I’d like to read it.

Andy, no one is saying that a false claim was used to get a warrant. What people are saying is that judges grant warrants with a narrow scope of purpose. The purpose here has to be to balance privacy with the necessity of videotaping for the narrow purpose of busting a sex trafficking operation.

If Bob Kraft had been caught on day 1, this would be certainly be **** luck for him because everything you’re saying is true. The problem is it really, really looks like the police at some point should have realized that the warrant they were granted also gives them a duty to be swift, stick to its purpose, and stop using it if they realize the case has no legs. That’s why a judge may very well rule that, yes, the warrant was legitimate, but no, you can’t just purposefully use its sureveillance powers to gather evidence for something beyond its scope. A lot of this will have to do with what the police were thinking, if they legitimately believed that, at that point in the investigation, taping B. Kraft was really pertinent to the trafficking investigation. Because it looks very much like it wasn’t.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

You’ll have to wait about a month. I’m seeing it on April 17th.

Enjoy. It was awesome. Where are you seeing it? I am close to SF and it’s here for about six months.

 

[Tony2046]

When the video comes out, I hope everyone remembers that what is seen cannot be unseen...

If LE actually had a human trafficking case, they would never be bragging about the johns they bagged and say the case is ongoing, they would have bagged the traffickers and then the johns then paraded them all together. Parading the johns around guarantees the traffickers will destroy whatever evidence they can and scatter. Thus it is almost certain there is no trafficking case to be destroyed and they're just going after the johns so they can show they bagged someone after spending months on the investigation.

Human trafficking is extremely tough to prove for various reasons but mainly because the women involved won't testify for obvious reasons.

But to fight human trafficking they are trying to fight it from all fronts including arresting the "johns". Is it the right way? I don't know.

From what I've read in this case they have arrested numerous "johns", seized assets and accused a few of racketeering. So they're trying to get what they can. Kraft got caught in the middle of it all.

Raiding massage parlors isn’t hard. But proving human trafficking is

 

[Antdawg]

Disagree completely. Ezekiel Elliott was cleared of all charges, and the woman the NFL hired as their expert in violence against women situations concluded that no punishment should be doled out to Elliott and Goodell hammered him anyways. And that is what will happen here, regardless of what a jury might find Goodell is going to hammer Kraft.

Two totally different subject matters. One involves violence against women which is a huge black eye for the league. The other is Kraft getting a handy from a willing participant whom he tipped $100 afterward. You can't compare the two.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

When the video comes out, I hope everyone remembers that what is seen cannot be unseen...

If LE actually had a human trafficking case, they would never be bragging about the johns they bagged and say the case is ongoing, they would have bagged the traffickers and then the johns then paraded them all together. Parading the johns around guarantees the traffickers will destroy whatever evidence they can and scatter. Thus it is almost certain there is no trafficking case to be destroyed and they're just going after the johns so they can show they bagged someone after spending months on the investigation.

On the money again.

In terms of your first point about “what’s is seen cannot be unseen” is excellently put.

We are all missing many dots here that are thus far unrevealed, but connecting the ones we know leads to some unsettling conclusions about the PD. Being able to secretly spy on and videotape citizens, many of them stark naked and just legitimately getting a massage, for what appears to be an unreasonable amount of time for a shoddy reason? That’s not a society that I want to live in. Releasing a video in light of these circumstances would be incomprehensibly abusive.

 

[Antdawg]

Ignoring five miles over the speed limit is one thing but ignoring county wide prostitution ring is another.

Speeders cause more wrecks than anything else. People get hurt in wrecks. Some people die in wrecks. What Bob Kraft supposedly did will harm no one. You're making my point.

 

[venecol]

They lived and worked in the spas. Ok they weren't chained to their beds but damn.

Kraft is defending his legacy, his name etc... which is his right to do. But he is also potentially blowing up an investigation into human trafficking by hiring top dollar lawyers to clear his name which is just sad and pathetic.

This isn't about just Kraft, there are 24 other men being charged, 15 of them had their 12 law firms file a joint motion to preserve the videos (not to release them). If this in fact was a human trafficking investigation they went about it the wrong way or simply just used it as an excuse to get the warrants to install the cameras.

Here is an example of a successful human trafficking FBI investigation of a Korean massage parlor ring in Michigan. They got the operators of the ring convicted and the operation shut down. No prostitution charges for the girls or the johns were filed. No video cameras were used, they went after the human trafficking. Instead here it is clear they were after the prostitution to embarrass the johns and used human trafficking as an excuse to sensationalize the arrests.

Ex-FBI Agent: Robert Kraft Case in Florida Reminds Me of Our Ann Arbor Investigation

 

[VectorPrime]

It’s fun to see so many people so desperately willing to carry water for a multi billionaire who paid money for sex.

 

[Tony2046]

Speeders cause more wrecks than anything else. People get hurt in wrecks. Some people die in wrecks. What Bob Kraft supposedly did will harm no one. You're making my point.

That's freaking hilarious.

 

[zipster9]

Sorry, but Robert Craft is guilty of soliciting sex. Case closed.