Edelman national HOF discussion

[Jackson 2]

Look I love Edelman but a lot of this is just the randomness of the game. When you say clutch I have to remind you that Edelman Harper'd a punt about halfway into the fourth quarter, got bailed out and then a play later tipped a pass for an INT. But because Ford lines up offside all of this is pushed to the side.

Welker's reputation for not being clutch is mostly centered around that infamous SB play. Will we keep talking about that one as much if Manningham doesn't catch the ball and our defense gets the ball back instead of giving up the lead ? Or if Brady doesn't throw the ball to the Giants on that deep pass ?

I think you can make an argument for either of the two player if you had to select one. Recency bias aside people should really check out some of the games Welker played from 2010-2012.

Anyway my point was that someone saying they'd take Edelman 100 out of 100 times over Welker is just silly. Welker was way too good to be thrown to the side like that.

He didn't get bailed out that punt because, unlike Harper, he didn't touch it.

 

[wheresmosi]

I could see him being the kind of guy who gets in years down the road as a veteran selection pick. I do think multiple super bowls matters, AND you can't just look at stats, but must consider how he did in the clutch. People know he has made some unbelievable catches, and clutch (I'd say he has done better in the clutch than Welker, who might have cost us 2 SBs. though the passes could have been better).

I also think thanks to people like Welker, slot is respected more than it once was.

IN addition, the Pats will be known as a great team with few H o Famers, which might make them ore open to adding someone. I suppose you could argue someone like Bruschi or McGinest have a better case, given Pro Bowls, and I think the former is very unlikely and the latter unlikely. But, they also don't have the same caliber of clutch plays to their name the way a receiver can, in the biggest moments (though we all know they have ade great plays).

 

[NE_Zealot]

I believe squirrel is only behind Rice in postseason receptions. That’s pretty incredible and definitely noteworthy.

 

[aluminum seats]

He'll get in if enough voters vote for him to get in, it's not some scientific algorithm. He has a chance, particularly with another 2 or 3 playoff runs.

 

[bormio]

Stole this from a YouTube comment - perfectly captures JE11.
“Julio Jones amazes me, Julian Edelman inspires me.”

 

[bormio]

He didn't get bailed out that punt because, unlike Harper, he didn't touch it.

Wasn’t for lack of trying though ....

 

[Jackson 2]

Wasn’t for lack of trying though ....

Didn't matter.

 

[MassPats38]

He'll get in if enough voters vote for him to get in, it's not some scientific algorithm. He has a chance, particularly with another 2 or 3 playoff runs.

In recent history, you have Terrell Davis, who isn't even top 50 in career rushing yards because of an injury shortened career. But he carried the Donkeys to 2 Super Bowl titles. He also has an MVP and 3 Pro Bowls.

You do have prototypical Hall of Famers based on career numbers, awards and titles. Others can find their way there on something more.

I expect he is an extreme long shot, even with good playoff runs. Jules has a lot in common with Troy Brown, who was a valuable part of 3 titles but doesn't fit the prototype. 6 years into his eligibility, nothing.

 

[luuked]

He didn't get bailed out that punt because, unlike Harper, he didn't touch it.

None of this matters. The decision to go for the ball is 90% of the problem and not whether he touched it or not. But that might fly over the head of the hindsight crew.

 

[captain insano]

Is this a real discussion? Edelman passed Welker long ago.

that's the first thing I thought when I read this thread. I didn't think it was a discussion. it's Edelman.

 

[aluminum seats]

In recent history, you have Terrell Davis, who isn't even top 50 in career rushing yards because of an injury shortened career. But he carried the Donkeys to 2 Super Bowl titles. He also has an MVP and 3 Pro Bowls.

You do have prototypical Hall of Famers based on career numbers, awards and titles. Others can find their way there on something more.

I expect he is an extreme long shot, even with good playoff runs. Jules has a lot in common with Troy Brown, who was a valuable part of 3 titles but doesn't fit the prototype. 6 years into his eligibility, nothing.

A lot is perception...I've heard multiple references to Edelman being a Hall of Famer this week & I'm in New York, where they don't exactly support all things Patriots.

 

[Tuck]

Probowls are as important as the stats to HOF voters. Edelman has none so no shot.

 

[TB_Helmet]

He'll get in if enough voters vote for him to get in, it's not some scientific algorithm. He has a chance, particularly with another 2 or 3 playoff runs.

Agree 100%. He will definitely get in if enough voters vote for him to get in.

 

[Patjew]

Edelman is good for an amazing play and a boneheaded play (or at least a drop) in most games.

WW was the more consistent player. He was also more limited in terms of what he could do on the field, IMO. And those few drops... yikes.

Both phenomenal Pats. Love them both.

 

[TB12GOATQB]

Think about all the receivers he'll be competing against who will be up after he retires: Torry Holt, Hines Ward, Reggie Wayne, Steve Smith, Larry Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson, Brandon Marshall, AJ Green, Wes Welker, Antonio Brown, Emmanuel Sanders, Jordy Nelson, Demaryius Thomas, eventually Julio Jones and TY Hilton. Not all of those guys will get in, and - homer goggles off - is there any of those you wouldn't have traded for Edelman straight up at their height?

Edelman's been a tremendous player and truly clutch in the playoffs but playoff stats simply mean little to voters except for quarterbacks. And Edelman also doesn't belong in the Hall of Fame. He's not an all-time great. He's never been among the 5 best WRs in the league. He's not Randy Moss, he's not Jerry Rice, he's not even near Cris Carter or Andre Reed. Cliff Branch has far better regular season stats, All Pros, three rings, comparable playoff stats, and was only a semifinalist twice and has no chance of ever getting in. Edelman has no chance.

But he is an all-time great Patriot. He'll get that red jacket and deserve every thread in it. We'll never forget him.

Only Hall of Famers from this era of the Patriots are Brady, Belichick, Gronk, and (insofar as he counts) Revis. Slater will be a semifinalist or whatever as they nod to special teams mattering but never sniff a finalist bid, just like Tasker. It's a while out but White could sniff it too. Lots of truly memorable players for all of us though. But let's be honest, the lack of the Hall of Fame or even All Pro caliber players beyond the QB and coach hint at just how great Brady and Belichick have been.

If you are taking Edelman 100 out of 100 over Welker I think you should put on some tape from 2010 and 2011 and remember how absurdly good Welker was. He is getting dinged for the 2-3 big drops (2011 SB and then the 2012 AFCCG drops against the Ravens) but has produced a lot.

On the flipside Edelman had his own fair share of drops but was lucky enough that his mistakes in big games mostly didn't matter because the team found a way to win despite it. Say you prefer one to the other all you want but going with 100 out of 100 is silly.

Ok. 99 out of 100. Edelman is a better player and has accomplished more.

 

[Jackson 2]

None of this matters. The decision to go for the ball is 90% of the problem and not whether he touched it or not. But that might fly over the head of the hindsight crew.

Why in God's name anyone, particularly any real Pats fan, would continue to bang this drum is beyond me. But, clearly there's an over- riding motive here. You can take the memory of Wes Welker over the performance of Julian Edelman all day and all night. Once the history has been written of the two, the Welker performance will pale by comparison. Not necessarily numbers-wise, but clear!y clutch -wise. And it won't be close.

 

[primetime]

Didn't matter.

But it was a terrible decision to try to field the punt and then he tipped the ball to the Chiefs a couple plays later; the latter was a huge turning point that would have been remembered as a gamechanging boneheaded moment had the Chiefs won. The whole "clutch" thing is silly, just totally driven by the stories you have to tell yourself to make what's really a series of correlated one-off events turn into a story. It's ESPN stuff. Edelman's got a bunch of receptions in the playoffs because he's played a lot of games in the playoffs. He has fewer playoff TDs than David Givens or Danny Amendola. He's certainly had some memorable moments and he's a great player but he's never been better than Wes Welker was, let alone a HOFer. This doesn't diminish him; Troy Brown and Kevin Faulk were fantastic players too but not HOFers.

 

[fnordcircle]

Honestly I was apparently pretty wrong about thinking Law only had an outside chance and Seymour had no shot so I don't even know anymore.

Honestly, if Seymour makes it then Edelman should make it but I don't think he will. Julian's been more important to this team than Seymour. Seymour was a great player, no doubt, though I despise when he stepped on Tarik Glenn's face, but Julian is a leader on the field and one of the few people you can count on to bring a never quit attitude and feisty play regardless of the score and momentum.

 

[primetime]

Honestly I was apparently pretty wrong about thinking Law only had an outside chance and Seymour had no shot so I don't even know anymore.

Honestly, if Seymour makes it then Edelman should make it but I don't think he will. Julian's been more important to this team than Seymour. Seymour was a great player, no doubt, though I despise when he stepped on Tarik Glenn's face, but Julian is a leader on the field and one of the few people you can count on to bring a never quit attitude and feisty play regardless of the score and momentum.

Seymour was the best player on a top-flight defense, you're way underselling how good and important he was. Edelman has spent most of his career as the second or third best pass catcher on his own team. This whole thread is basically just a case study in recency bias.

 

[lancerman]

There's a huge waiting list at the WR position and way too many guys are ahead of him and will be ahead of him in the future for him to have a shot.