Patriots Rumor Malcolm Butler Mega Thread

[aluminum seats]

Still recovering from flu. Emotionally messed up when told he wasn't starting. Played like dog **** in AFCCG in Cover 3 thus BB losing confidence in him. Limited in W &Th practice. Didn't know newly installed defensive audibles.

Some or all justifies the decision-making logic.

And we're back to the excuse stew, none of which withstands the slightest bit of scrutiny on its own, hence the need to put a bunch together and act like collectively they make sense. They still don't.

--The flu? OK, the team is getting historically torched in the Super Bowl, I think I'll try my starting cornerback in the second half. If he collapses from exhaustion on the field due to the flu, it won't really seem much different from the cornerbacks that were playing before.

--He played 100% of the snaps in the championship game, which the Patriots obviously won. Belichick "losing confidence" in him based on however he played might be a reason, but it is truly a horrific one if that's the case. See the results in the Super Bowl.

--Limited in practice? "My starting cornerback, who played 98% of the snaps for the year and 100% of the snaps the previous game, will play zero snaps because he was limited in practice on Thursday." Please.

--Didn't know audibles? "Hey guys, since this is a defensive performance of historically bad proportions so far, what say we go back to the audibles Malcolm knows, everybody cool with that?"

Again, Belichick obviously had a reason for doing what he did. It just wasn't a defensible one, or at least no one has been able to even imagine a defensible one yet.

 

[Deus Irae]

--Didn't know audibles? "Hey guys, since this is a defensive performance of historically bad proportions so far, what say we go back to the audibles Malcolm knows, everybody cool with that?"

 

[RobertWeathers]

And we're back to the excuse stew, none of which withstands the slightest bit of scrutiny on its own, hence the need to put a bunch together and act like collectively they make sense. They still don't.

--The flu? OK, the team is getting historically torched in the Super Bowl, I think I'll try my starting cornerback in the second half. If he collapses from exhaustion on the field due to the flu, it won't really seem much different from the cornerbacks that were playing before.

--He played 100% of the snaps in the championship game, which the Patriots obviously won. Belichick "losing confidence" in him based on however he played might be a reason, but it is truly a horrific one if that's the case. See the results in the Super Bowl.

--Limited in practice? "My starting cornerback, who played 98% of the snaps for the year and 100% of the snaps the previous game, will play zero snaps because he was limited in practice on Thursday." Please.

--Didn't know audibles? "Hey guys, since this is a defensive performance of historically bad proportions so far, what say we go back to the audibles Malcolm knows, everybody cool with that?"

Again, Belichick obviously had a reason for doing what he did. It just wasn't a defensible one, or at least no one has been able to even imagine a defensible one yet.

Like I, you have no freaking clue if BB's logic and reasoning is defensible or not. Quit pretending you are clairvoyant and can predict cause and effect.

Why so many fans refuse to assume Malcolm just wasnt plain ready to play or in BBs estimation was not going to make a difference is very interesting.

 

[Kontradiction]

Like I, you have no freaking clue if BB's logic and reasoning is defensible or not. Quit pretending you are clairvoyant and can predict cause and effect.

Why so many fans refuse to assume Malcolm just wasnt plain ready to play or in BBs estimation was not going to make a difference is very interesting.

If BB’s estimation was that playing McCourty and Chung outside of their natural assignments and sticking Jordan Richards on the field was preferable to moving McCourty and Chung back to their natural positions and making Butler essentially the last DB over Richards, maybe it might be time to consider whether his faculties are beginning to fail him.

 

[RobertWeathers]

If BB’s estimation was that playing McCourty and Chung outside of their natural assignments and sticking Jordan Richards on the field was preferable to moving McCourty and Chung back to their natural positions and making Butler essentially the last DB over Richards, maybe it might be time to consider whether his faculties are beginning to fail him.

Why a coach who is known to be the most comprehensive, data-driven, experienced, most successful coach in NFL history suddenly being accused of losing his faculties?

C'mon now....

 

[Betterthanmost]

Listening to Dola about putting his blood and tears on the line in the Superbowl and watching Butler just stand on the sidelines not playing brings alive the abject dejection some of these guys must be feeling post Superbowl without an explanation. BB will need to thread lightly here.
Butler did everything the Patriots preach, yet he was never rewarded nor treated properly in my opinion. Granted I don't know what Butler did behind the scenes that did not ingratiate him with BB but he was always severely dealt with for very minor stuff. Gronk, Brady and High can be problems for BB if he does not explain this situation to them properly. Dola is tight with Gronk and Brady and I am sure his sentiments were discussed with them as well.

 

[Kontradiction]

Why a coach who is known to be the most comprehensive, data-driven, experienced, most successful coach in NFL history suddenly being accused of losing his faculties?

C'mon now....

I’m not saying he is. I think he felt he had a good reason for putting lesser talented players (as you even admitted yourself) out there. The question is: was he correct in doing so and sinking the Super Bowl? With what we know today (and I’m including SBB’s supposed source in there), the answer is no. But hey, at least they were more disciplined than the Eagles were amirite? Do they give trophies for that or do they only give trophies for actually, um, winning the Super Bowl?

 

[Boomer B]

Can anyone justify Chung in man coverage on Agholor? Anyone? As Kontra mentioned, going Big Nickel and benching Butler led to others playing out of position. A complete clusterf**k that should have been changed in the 2nd half. Would Agholor get 5 yards of separation on Butler? Horrible game plan and even worse was that they stuck with it in the 2nd half.

 

[Kontradiction]

Can anyone justify Chung in man coverage on Agholor? Anyone? As Kontra mentioned, going Big Nickel and benching Butler led to others playing out of position. A complete clusterf**k that should have been changed in the 2nd half. Would Agholor get 5 yards of separation on Butler? Horrible game plan and even worse was that they stuck with it in the 2nd half.

Maybe you can find someone on the street burned out on various kinds of designer drugs that would agree with that defense. That and massive homers as well. Most people with their faculties in normal, working order, however, would probably not be in favor of that kind of personnel package.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Even moreso than not playing Butler what I don't understand is the defensive scheme they used given that he wouldn't be out there.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Can anyone justify Chung in man coverage on Agholor? Anyone? As Kontra mentioned, going Big Nickel and benching Butler led to others playing out of position. A complete clusterf**k that should have been changed in the 2nd half. Would Agholor get 5 yards of separation on Butler? Horrible game plan and even worse was that they stuck with it in the 2nd half.

I think patricia’s focus was on Detroit...

 

[RobertWeathers]

I’m not saying he is. I think he felt he had a good reason for putting lesser talented players (as you even admitted yourself) out there. The question is: was he correct in doing so and sinking the Super Bowl? With what we know today (and I’m including SBB’s supposed source in there), the answer is no. But hey, at least they were more disciplined than the Eagles were amirite? Do they give trophies for that or do they only give trophies for actually, um, winning the Super Bowl?

What is the bold?

 

[Kontradiction]

What is the bold?

He has a source close to the team that said BB’s son walked in on Butler drunk and smoking weed in the hotel prior to the Super Bowl.

 

[IcyPatriot]

If the if Butler played the we would have won people would offer their reasoning as opinion then fine ... that's sports. But to prove their opinion is valid some of them choose to use the word logic/logical which is erroneous. That brings in slippery slope and hasty generalization just to name a few. One cannot assume Butler would have made the same good plays that his subs made. Also ... cannot assume he would have made good plays vs the bad plays his subs did ... assumptions have no place in a logical argument ... facts are needed ... all of them.

Sports is a best guess ... best opinion of a choice and choices based on statistics, game scheme, health of player, matchups ... just to name a few. Coaches play percentages and hunches ... it's not foolproof and it's why we all have opinions based on what we see.

I myself think we may have performed better if Butler had played ... my opinion is all it is.

But I cannot say with certainty we would have won ... because if he played other results which are unknown would have to be factored in ... unknowns are not part of logic. They are presenting fallacies in informal arguments ... you cannot say something is true because it has not been proven false or false because it has not yet been proven true - the investigation is insufficient and will remain so.

 

[RobertWeathers]

He has a source close to the team that said BB’s son walked in on Butler drunk and smoking weed in the hotel prior to the Super Bowl.

Oh SignBabyBrady. I remember now.
I don't know what to make of that.

I believe if Bill thought a murdeous convict could help him win a SB he'd play him.

 

[Ring 6]

Even moreso than not playing Butler what I don't understand is the defensive scheme they used given that he wouldn't be out there.

That scheme was awful whenever they used it, I hope it has been scrapped. I supposed with a better group up front it conceptually makes sense against some offenses but we didn’t have that kind of front.
But I don’t know if we would have been any better playing a traditional nickel or that Butler would have done any better than Rowe.

 

[IcyPatriot]

That scheme was awful whenever they used it, I hope it has been scrapped. I supposed with a better group up front it conceptually makes sense against some offenses but we didn’t have that kind of front.
But I don’t know if we would have been any better playing a traditional nickel or that Butler would have done any better than Rowe.

Yes we lost because Foles was way too comfortable for most of the game.

 

[Kontradiction]

That scheme was awful whenever they used it, I hope it has been scrapped. I supposed with a better group up front it conceptually makes sense against some offenses but we didn’t have that kind of front.
But I don’t know if we would have been any better playing a traditional nickel or that Butler would have done any better than Rowe.

He would have been better than Richards as the last DB for reasons already mentioned. Bet you’ve read all of those reasons.

 

[Kontradiction]

Yes we lost because Foles was way too comfortable for most of the game.

Well and his guys were absolutely wide open for the most part. One of those situations could have been helped. Probably would have led to the one more stop they needed as well.

 

[aluminum seats]

Like I, you have no freaking clue if BB's logic and reasoning is defensible or not. Quit pretending you are clairvoyant and can predict cause and effect.

Why so many fans refuse to assume Malcolm just wasnt plain ready to play or in BBs estimation was not going to make a difference is very interesting.

Clairvoyant? Just the opposite. I'm saying plainly I can envision no set of facts that justifies what occurred, and apparently neither you or anyone else can either.

I have no idea what "refuse to assume Malcolm just wasnt plain ready" and the rest of that is supposed to mean.