What Are The Roles Of Our Special Teamers? Who Can We Cut?

[mgteich]

Who else plays the ST positions played by

BOLDEN

KING

EBNER

RICHARDS

GRISSOM (I guess that it is Guy)

BADEMOSI

I presume that we will re-sign SLATER, but he should be listed also, in case he is ready to retire.
==========
With every other player, we well understand the options if the player leaves. That is not really the case with special teams.

 

[maineman209]

Aside from the FG and extra point units (that are mostly OL and the kicking specialists, although there are a couple other roles, too), there are four units for "special teamers" - blocking for the Pats KR and PR, and defending against opponent KRs and PRs (tackling units).

One thing to keep in mind with these ST units is that the defending units are executing designed plays to prevent returns and much as the blocking units are executing designed plays to generate a return. It isn't just a free-for-all out there.

BOLDEN - plays all four units, most of the time ... often plays the rush-end when opponents are punting, and then drops back to block ... though not a "gunner", he's often among the first 2-3 guys arriving when the opponent's returner catches the punt or kickoff from the Pats

KING - like Slater and (sometimes) Ebner, he's primarily a gunner, racing opposing blockers down the sideline to get to the opposing returner ASAP, often fighting off double-team blocks along the way

EBNER - sometimes "gunner", but also "personal protector" for Ryan Allen (responsible for spotting and blocking any penetrators and directing guys on the line wrt to who to block)

RICHARDS - downfield blocker on return units; interior gap assignments on defending units (usually re-directing returners toward the tacklers) ... became Allen's "personal protector" (over Chung) when Ebner was injured (kind of a promotion)

GRISSOM (I guess that it is Guy) - although he was active for only 9 regular season games, Grissom played nearly as many ST snaps as Guy. On a per-game basis, he was right up there with Richards, J. Jones, Bademosi, Bolden and King. Similar role to Richards (blocker, interior gap filler).

BADEMOSI - Filled in at gunner for Slater a couple times after Ebner went to IR. Even when Slater was on the field, Bademosi was often one of the first 2-3 guys to arrive at the opponent's returner. Often an interior gap-filler.

Many of these interior guys also help keep opposing blockers off of guys like Slater when they're trying to down a punt inside the opponent's five.

Two others worthy of mention:

JAKE HOLLISTER - often on defending units, which is fairly unusual for an offensive skill-position player (not only on the Pats) ... definitely contributed to a few ST tackles that I saw ... played more than twice as many ST snaps as offensive snaps (likely why he was active nearly every game).

BURKHEAD - about 10 ST snaps/game (when active), one blocking unit and often defending against punt returns (interior gap-filler)

ST TACKLES for 2017 (and incomplete list from teamrankins.com, but the only tracking source I've found so far):

Bademosi -10
J. Jones - 9
Chung - 8
King - 8 (missed three games with a hammy issue)
Slater - 7
Bolden - 7

There are always several more guys who make anywhere from 1-5 tackles and or who get credit for assists, but ST stats are almost universally ignored by all but a couple pay-sites. If they were more widely-published and analyzed, fans might have more appreciation for what ST guys do.

 

[Simpelton]

Will be nice to have Edelman back on ST FWIW

 

[fnordcircle]

Honestly thought this was going to be the pilot script for a sitcom about Special Teams players.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Terrible thread title

 

[ctpatsfan77]

JAKE HOLLISTER - often on defending units, which is fairly unusual for an offensive skill-position player (not only on the Pats) ... definitely contributed to a few ST tackles that I saw ... played more than twice as many ST snaps as offensive snaps (likely why he was active nearly every game).

About 8% of offensive snaps and 42% of ST snaps, FWIW.

Fortunately for him, ST snaps count towards the performance-based pay that's given out on a per snap basis. Should net him an extra $30K–40K.

 

[mgteich]

Terrible thread title

Curiously, no one has objections abut threads called "the defensive front seven" or even he "the defense".

 

[convertedpatsfan]

Curiously, no one has objections abut threads called "the defensive front seven" or even he "the defense".

I was kind of expecting the Munsters or something. Maybe make it STers or Special Teamers.

 

[mgteich]

New England Patriots 2017 Snap Counts | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Aside from the FG and extra point units (that are mostly OL and the kicking specialists, although there are a couple other roles, too), there are four units for "special teamers" - blocking for the Pats KR and PR, and defending against opponent KRs and PRs (tackling units).

One thing to keep in mind with these ST units is that the defending units are executing designed plays to prevent returns and much as the blocking units are executing designed plays to generate a return. It isn't just a free-for-all out there.

BOLDEN - plays all four units, most of the time ... often plays the rush-end when opponents are punting, and then drops back to block ... though not a "gunner", he's often among the first 2-3 guys arriving when the opponent's returner catches the punt or kickoff from the Pats

KING - like Slater and (sometimes) Ebner, he's primarily a gunner, racing opposing blockers down the sideline to get to the opposing returner ASAP, often fighting off double-team blocks along the way

EBNER - sometimes "gunner", but also "personal protector" for Ryan Allen (responsible for spotting and blocking any penetrators and directing guys on the line wrt to who to block)

RICHARDS - downfield blocker on return units; interior gap assignments on defending units (usually re-directing returners toward the tacklers) ... became Allen's "personal protector" (over Chung) when Ebner was injured (kind of a promotion)

GRISSOM (I guess that it is Guy) - although he was active for only 9 regular season games, Grissom played nearly as many ST snaps as Guy. On a per-game basis, he was right up there with Richards, J. Jones, Bademosi, Bolden and King. Similar role to Richards (blocker, interior gap filler).

BADEMOSI - Filled in at gunner for Slater a couple times after Ebner went to IR. Even when Slater was on the field, Bademosi was often one of the first 2-3 guys to arrive at the opponent's returner. Often an interior gap-filler.

Many of these interior guys also help keep opposing blockers off of guys like Slater when they're trying to down a punt inside the opponent's five.

Two others worthy of mention:

JAKE HOLLISTER - often on defending units, which is fairly unusual for an offensive skill-position player (not only on the Pats) ... definitely contributed to a few ST tackles that I saw ... played more than twice as many ST snaps as offensive snaps (likely why he was active nearly every game).

BURKHEAD - about 10 ST snaps/game (when active), one blocking unit and often defending against punt returns (interior gap-filler)

ST TACKLES for 2017 (and incomplete list from teamrankins.com, but the only tracking source I've found so far):

Bademosi -10
J. Jones - 9
Chung - 8
King - 8 (missed three games with a hammy issue)
Slater - 7
Bolden - 7

There are always several more guys who make anywhere from 1-5 tackles and or who get credit for assists, but ST stats are almost universally ignored by all but a couple pay-sites. If they were more widely-published and analyzed, fans might have more appreciation for what ST guys do.

 

[mgteich]

Will be nice to have Edelman back on ST FWIW

To be clear, you are looking forward to Edelman starting to risk his career on Game 1 by returning punts?

I would much rather have WR #5 have that role.

 

[slam]

Curiously, no one has objections abut threads called "the defensive front seven" or even he "the defense".

I thought you might have suffered a stroke while writing about the Steelers.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Curiously, no one has objections abut threads called "the defensive front seven" or even he "the defense".

Maybe make it STers or Special Teamers.

The title was just confusing. The suggestion by convertedpatsfan would help a lot.

 

[maineman209]

Will be nice to have Edelman back on ST FWIW

I'm sure I'm not alone in saying I'd cringe to see Edelman taking on the additional risk of returning punts in 2018, especially coming off an ACL

Even back in 2015, Edelman began to give up some punt returns duties to Amendola, and in 2016, BB drafted Cy Jones. So, I think they've been trying to move away from Edelman as PR, anyway.

For 2018, in addition to Cy Jones (coming off his own ACL), the Pats have Reedy and McCarron on the roster (and Amendola is not, yet).

Reedy had a ton of college experience returning punts with very good success (and ball security). He also had some NFL-level experience with Tampa before getting picked up by the Pats.

McCarron, didn't return as many punts in college as Reedy did, but was far more dynamic on those he did.

Both were very effective slot receivers, and Reedy even worked out of the backfield quite a bit.

I've also wondered if the Pats would work with Dorsett this off-season on returning (both punts and kicks) in order to give him an opportunity to increase his roster value.

In any case, it seems to me that the Pats are making a clear effort to move away from Edelman returning punts.

 

[patriot1136]

Seems to me like we pretty much need to keep all of these guys. They all play important roles on special teams. Basically, what it comes down to, is that we don't necessarily need to cut Richards. We need to make sure he isn't seeing defense snaps and having to cover people.

 

[BTTA]

@mgteich, thanks again for getting us started in the off season with a series of rational, invitational posts about the roster. These are like the flowers that are just popping up in the yard, helping to turn the corner from winter/last season.

 

[mgteich]

I listed 6 key STO players.

I don't consider Bulkhead and Hollister STO players, although Hollister wouldn't be active if he weren't a top Ster.

That's a lot a STO players, compared to the 0-3 that many posters prefer.

As an aside, I think that Bademosi is a fine #5 corner.

Seems to me like we pretty much need to keep all of these guys. They all play important roles on special teams. Basically, what it comes down to, is that we don't necessarily need to cut Richards. We need to make sure he isn't seeing defense snaps and having to cover people.

 

[maineman209]

Seems to me like we pretty much need to keep all of these guys. They all play important roles on special teams. Basically, what it comes down to, is that we don't necessarily need to cut Richards. We need to make sure he isn't seeing defense snaps and having to cover people.

At this point, I think Richards (309 ST snaps) probably at least plays out the last year of his rookie contract - hopefully as ST-only - more or less what happened with Tavon Wilson.

If J. Jones (289 ST snaps) is to have an expanded role at CB in 2018, his ST might be significantly reduced from the 65% -70% that he played the past two seasons down to the 30%-40% that McCourty and Chung have typically played. Note that Butler, Rowe, Gilmore and Logan Ryan (his last couple seasons) were used very sparingly on ST. So, JJ's missing ST snaps will need to be filled by someone.

Bademosi and Bolden (284 and 271 ST snaps, respectively) were the next most-used ST players in 2017, and both are UFA. Those ST snaps will need to be back-filled if either of them leave.

If King (236 ST snaps) stays healthy for the full 16 games (he missed three games and was limited in another this season due to a hammy issue), he'll likely cover another 60 or 70 snaps than he did in 2017.

If Marquis Flowers (209 ST snaps) is re-signed (I hope), it seems probable that his role on defense would expand - with a bit of reduction in his ST snaps. It already happened this season. As his defensive role expanded after the BYE week to an average of about 50% of the D-snaps, his ST-snap load was reduced from about 65% to about 35%.

If Jake Hollister (188 ST snaps) can keep up his very much improved ST work (especially on defending units), it will significantly increase his chances of sticking around on the 2018 53-man roster, almost regardless how much he improves (or doesn't) on offense. He might even increase his ST snap count which would make up for some of the potential losses.

Ebner played only 172 ST snaps this season, down from 359 in 2016. But then, he was only active for 9 games, so his ST-snaps per game-active remained the same (Ebner missed the first two weeks with a shoulder issue and the final five games on IR with a torn ACL). Him getting back to "normal" will also add back a few missing ST snaps.

Develin and Guy played 168 and 166 ST snaps, respectively. I don't see that changing much either way.

Grissom played 153 ST snaps in only 9 games, so his per-game ST usage was just below that of Ebner's. It's what's kept him around. At a mere $720k, I'd expect that he plays out the final year of his rookie contract - on ST - especially considering how easy it's been to slide him back to the PS when the Pats need to sign another guy in an emergency (think, "Ventrone").

Slater (126 ST snaps) missed 7 games and was limited in at least two others with a hammy issue this season that had dogged him since Camp. On a per-game basis, his ST-snap counts were down, too. He turns 33 in September, and retirement begins to seem like a fairly real possibility. If that happens, that yet another load of ST-snaps (not to mention leadership) that will need to be replaced.

Grigsby average about 55% of ST snaps for the five games he was with the Pats this season for a total of 79 (and he performed very well). Extrapolating that level of usage over a full 16 games adds back about 175 ST snaps against those that may be lost due to other personnel changes.

After Grigsby, and aside from the OL guys and kicking specialists, it's really just a handful of ST snaps here and there for the rest of the players on the roster.

So, in response to the 2nd part of the Thread Title question, I don't foresee any of these ST-only guys being arbitrarily cut anytime soon.

 

[mgteich]

Clearly, we need to have a roster category if we are going to carry 7 STO's.

BTW, you talk of keeping these players. As is almost always the case, many of these players are free agents: Slater, Ebner, King, Bademosi, Bolden and Flowers.

BTW, Grissom isn't on his rookie contract. I think that he's been cut and re-signed at least 3 times.

UPDATE
Geneo Grissom NFL Transactions: Signings, Trades & more

At this point, I think Richards (309 ST snaps) probably at least plays out the last year of his rookie contract - hopefully as ST-only - more or less what happened with Tavon Wilson.

If J. Jones (289 ST snaps) is to have an expanded role at CB in 2018, his ST might be significantly reduced from the 65% -70% that he played the past two seasons down to the 30%-40% that McCourty and Chung have typically played. Note that Butler, Rowe, Gilmore and Logan Ryan (his last couple seasons) were used very sparingly on ST. So, JJ's missing ST snaps will need to be filled by someone.

Bademosi and Bolden (284 and 271 ST snaps, respectively) were the next most-used ST players in 2017, and both are UFA. Those ST snaps will need to be back-filled if either of them leave.

If King (236 ST snaps) stays healthy for the full 16 games (he missed three games and was limited in another this season due to a hammy issue), he'll likely cover another 60 or 70 snaps than he did in 2017.

If Marquis Flowers (209 ST snaps) is re-signed (I hope), it seems probable that his role on defense would expand - with a bit of reduction in his ST snaps. It already happened this season. As his defensive role expanded after the BYE week to an average of about 50% of the D-snaps, his ST-snap load was reduced from about 65% to about 35%.

If Jake Hollister (188 ST snaps) can keep up his very much improved ST work (especially on defending units), it will significantly increase his chances of sticking around on the 2018 53-man roster, almost regardless how much he improves (or doesn't) on offense. He might even increase his ST snap count which would make up for some of the potential losses.

Ebner played only 172 ST snaps this season, down from 359 in 2016. But then, he was only active for 9 games, so his ST-snaps per game-active remained the same (Ebner missed the first two weeks with a shoulder issue and the final five games on IR with a torn ACL). Him getting back to "normal" will also add back a few missing ST snaps.

Develin and Guy played 168 and 166 ST snaps, respectively. I don't see that changing much either way.

Grissom played 153 ST snaps in only 9 games, so his per-game ST usage was just below that of Ebner's. It's what's kept him around. At a mere $720k, I'd expect that he plays out the final year of his rookie contract - on ST - especially considering how easy it's been to slide him back to the PS when the Pats need to sign another guy in an emergency (think, "Ventrone").

Slater (126 ST snaps) missed 7 games and was limited in at least two others with a hammy issue this season that had dogged him since Camp. On a per-game basis, his ST-snap counts were down, too. He turns 33 in September, and retirement begins to seem like a fairly real possibility. If that happens, that yet another load of ST-snaps (not to mention leadership) that will need to be replaced.

Grigsby average about 55% of ST snaps for the five games he was with the Pats this season for a total of 79 (and he performed very well). Extrapolating that level of usage over a full 16 games adds back about 175 ST snaps against those that may be lost due to other personnel changes.

After Grigsby, and aside from the OL guys and kicking specialists, it's really just a handful of ST snaps here and there for the rest of the players on the roster.

So, in response to the 2nd part of the Thread Title question, I don't foresee any of these ST-only guys being arbitrarily cut anytime soon.

 

[maineman209]

Clearly, we need to have a roster category if we are going to carry 7 STO's.

BTW, you talk of keeping these players. As is almost always the case, many of these players are free agents: Slater, Ebner, King, Bademosi, Bolden and Flowers.

BTW, Grissom isn't on his rookie contract. I think that he's been cut and re-signed at least 3 times.

UPDATE
Geneo Grissom NFL Transactions: Signings, Trades & more

Yes, you're correct about Grissom. However, he's currently signed through 2018 at $720k, so, in effect ...

Fans probably need a roster category for STO-only. I think that Pats probably already have one. But 7 seems to be the usual count of guys who play ST exclusively or almost exclusively. I've seen the count higher than seven some years, but I'm not sure it's often been much lower than 7.

 

[Kontradiction]

Richards is fine as a specialist on ST. It’s when he sees quality defensive snaps that he’s a liability. Out of that list, my guesses would be King, Ebner, and/or Grissom.