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Can the Patriots use RPO?


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So to paraphrase the answers here for the OP, we already run the RPO, but Brady decides on run/pass before the snap?
 
we were talking about foles.....who runs a 5.03/40

The RPO in his case was to delay the decision to hand off/pass to the last possible moment

not worth arguing, just what I see.....call me blind if you like

That's why I said at the beginning of the thread that they weren't going to call many designed runs with Foles with his back-up being Sudfeld. They didn't actually call many RPO plays in the Super Bowl period if you think about it.
 
That's why I said at the beginning of the thread that they weren't going to call many designed runs with Foles with his back-up being Sudfeld. They didn't actually call many RPO plays in the Super Bowl period if you think about it.

they had 13 passing plays out of RPO....don't recall how many runs....0 with Foles running
 
First of all, "RPO" is a version of playaction or more so a version of a "light" Wildcat where you're really looking to throw. It's just lame version of deception. It's why Alex Smith ran out of bullets and KC faded. Since Went got hurt, not seeing as much of Foles's version and use of it, probably benfitted Philly a bit in terms of the deception, but in no way is it sustainable as the base of an offense in the NFL. It's a gimmick for NCAA QBs who need some help to run an offense.

Honestly, the RPO has nothing to do with how the D played. They didn't take the cheese, there werent' blown coverages, guys wide open, etc. And, in the 2nd half, the D didn't get completely crushed by their run game either. I think Blount had a 10 yard run and Ajayi had a 9 yarder, and that was more or less their run game.

And, no, you don't use gimmicks when you have te GOAT. PLayaction is fine and I don't want Brady pretending to run.

If Foles was more or a runner, a more true version of an RPO like you see in college, would have been more of a real thing.

The analysts that made a big deal out of this are honestly morons. It's a gimmick and nothing new.
 
The Patriots have used simple RPOs since Charlie Weiss was OC....before it became a buzzword.

Here' s Carlie calling it with Notre Dame:




And no...

RPO=/=Zone Read

These are two different things. An RPO does not require the QB to run. Nick Foles did not run in SB, either. An RPO is just a run play where a WR runs a route, and the QB gets to choose whether to hand-off or throw based on the D.

In the shotgun, it's sort of like a typical play action pass...but the QB really can hand it off. Only difference is that the O-line blocking assignments are run oriented, so the QB has to throw quick; before the O-line is 1 yards past the line of scrimmage.

But when the QB is under center, he just turns and throws. Notice the run blocking and how the back is still expecting the hand-off.


Pretty much.

Teams are just putting new wrinkles on an old concept because the NFL uses more shotgun these days and are more willing to run out of it, too.

With that being said, I should mention that the Patriots are also one of those teams adding new wrinkles to their more traditional RPOs (it's not just 'Look' and 'Swing' anymore, like in the video above)....See the below gif in comparison to the video above. There are more wrinkles used these days (i.e. Gun formation and the WR routes are more and more vertical) but it's still the same basic concept; it's a basic running play where the QB simply has the option to hand-off or throw it. That's it. You read the D, and choose.


So, how/why is an RPO really just a basic run play? Look at the blocking. For example, in the gif below, notice how they pull the Guard in the blocking scheme; that's a "Power" run concept, which is not something you'd ever see on a genuine pass play (notice how Brady has little time to get rid of it). But what makes this running play an RPO is that the QB simply has the option to hang on to the ball and throw to a receiver really, really, quick. Again, you cannot hang onto the ball a read the coverage, or anything. No 3-step-drop, or anything. Because it's not a pass play....it's run blocking. That's it. That's all it is.

...but it still can be very tricky for an opposing D to defend; just see the video below. Easy play, big gain. Defenders have to be in position to defend the run and the pass after the snap.

Edit: Ok, I uploaded the video clip from this Globe article:



Now, has the RPO evolved? Absolutely. Notice how the Patriots are now running it out of the Shotgun (which caught on in the NCAA first). When in he Gun, the RB is right next to the QB. So the QB doesn't have move in order to hand off (like he would if he were under center). So, with an RPO in a Gun formation, it allows the QB to genuinely hand-off, or fake that hand-off, right after the snap...without any change in the QB's post-snap movement. Because before? When the RPO was/is run from an under-Center formation (like in the Weiss video) the QB has to turn his back to the play and hand-off when he chooses to run. Or immediately throw if he chooses to pass (but no fake hand-off, because there's simply no time if under-center). So, running RPO out of the gun gives the QB the chance to hand-off, or fake the hand-off, every-time; so it further forces the D to respect the run and the pass after the snap.

Also, using the RPO out of the shotgun gives more room/passing lanes for the QB to throw to, so you see more (quick) downfield routes. So, you can attack the seam with quick slants/go-routes, etc. Unlike under-center, where you'd really just see passes behind the line-of-scrimmage (again, like, 'Look' and 'Swing'). This gives the RPO more flexibility to mix thing up, as well.

In the gif above, the Patriots kind of mix thing up with both of their '0ld' and 'new' RPO tendencies. So, in the gif, notice how Dorsett runs that simple 'swing' route (while Hogan initially fakes a block)...only to see Brady turn and throw to Hogan on a quick slant to the seam, instead? Both the Saints Nickel and OLB totally bit on that initial swing route and that opened-up Hogan on the quick slant. Big gain. So, on this play, the Pats not only faked out the saints front-7 with (again) a genuine the run play, but by also picking-on those two defenders in the slot by making them think it was a (traditional) RPO swing route...when they were really just disguising a (more modern) RPO quick slant, to Hogan.

BTW- But again, it's genuinely a run play. I can't stress this enough. Media/fans don't always seem to understand this part, either. In the huddle, the QB really does call a basic run play. Everyone on that O-line is run blocking. The RB expects the hand-off; because if the QB really does hand-off? It is no different than a basic run play....because it is a basic run play. It's just that an RPO is simply a run play with a "tag" or "alert" that tells a WR to run a route, so the QB can turn and throw based on how he reads the D. That's all. It's still a simple concept that forces the D to play both the run and the pass. It's nothing new, we're just seeing it with more and more wrinkles now, too.
 
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I agree that the offense isn't perfect and can be improved in the same way that everything can be improved. But I also think that trying to add the RPO to this offense would be an ill-fitting solution searching for a problem. The problem that the RPO solves doesn't really apply to our offense, because we already solve that problem--and do it very effectively--in other ways that better fit our personnel.

That's fine. As I said, we've incorporated some elements. But if the team evaluates it and thinks it isn't the right thing, great.

My problem is with people who dismiss it flippantly without even having the conversation to begin with. BB will explore every option available to him to get better. That doesn't mean he integrates them all, but he will at least give it the appropriate thought and consideration.
 
RPOs? Why would want Brady running or faking to maybe run?
 
That's fine. As I said, we've incorporated some elements. But if the team evaluates it and thinks it isn't the right thing, great.

My problem is with people who dismiss it flippantly without even having the conversation to begin with. BB will explore every option available to him to get better. That doesn't mean he integrates them all, but he will at least give it the appropriate thought and consideration.

You can never have enough tools in your toolbox.
 
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