Malcolm Butler Mega Thread

[SVN]

That my friend is what we call a double standard.

Tom is the GOAT and he gets a pass for ****ty ball security (Note: I am ok with giving him a pass).

Shaq Mason skates by too.

BB doesn't get a pass for a football decision even though hes the GOAT.

Do you admit BB made a mistake then and are giving him a pass ? Or are you supporting bill's decision. Which one is it.?

 

[Kargetina]

That my friend is what we call a double standard.

Tom is the GOAT and he gets a pass for ****ty ball security (Note: I am ok with giving him a pass).

Shaq Mason skates by too.

BB doesn't get a pass for a football decision even though hes the GOAT.

No, that is not a double standard.

Belichick didn't make a single mistake in the heat of the moment. Brady had 460+ yards and 3 TD's before the fumble. A double standard would have been had Brady threw 4 picks and had 150 yards with zero TD's and yet we're only blaming Belichick for the loss.

Bill and Patricia created a horrendous game plan, mostly due to Butler's benching and never fixed it during a 4 hour game.

It should never have come to the point where Brady needed a 4-th straight TD in as many second half drives to win the game. If we add the two Ghost miscues, Brady and the offense gave this team 37 points. And that still wasn't enough.

As far as being objective in critical assessment, i still have no idea what Brady was looking at during that snap. White was wide open in the flat as soon as the ball was snapped, and Amendola was wide open right in front of Brady in the slant. It was 2nd and 2 so it's not like they needed a long pass. That was a defensive Hail Marry as big as Butler's interception. The Eagles couldn't do anything to Hogan, Gronk and Amendola. Zero chance of stopping a TD drive. That pisses me off even more than Belichick's decision because had Brady scored another TD, it would have gone in history as the greatest performance by any player in any final ever.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I understand what you are saying, but Brady’s fumble (and Mason’s failure to block Graham) happened on one play where there was NOTHING the team could have done afterwards to correct it.

Technically speaking, Tom made a mistake. Shaq made a mistake. That is a fact. Those mistakes directly impacted the outcome of the game.

On the other hand, Belichick had all game to think about putting Butler in. Bill’s mistake was correctable, Tom’s was not.

The difference is BB doesn't think he made a mistake. You do. We also have zero concrete evidence Malcolm's absence impacted the game (but we suspect it did).

The difference here is optics and perception are the reasons why BB is getting killed. Not on actual outcomes influenced by a specific act.

 

[Ring 6]

But Andy says we don't know the reason Butler was benched and it had to have been a BIG one because BB would never bench someone for no good reason.

And you dispute that?

You get over it. Butler isn't my binky. If he did all these things then good riddance, but you don't blow the Super Bowl over what you've written above (which Andy should point out to you, you are just making up). Win the game then deal with Butler.

It’s starting to sound like butler caused belichick to lose confidence in him.
Reiss gave info from captains that he was demoted to nickel during the week because he was struggling with the game plan. That’s pretty close to a fact.

Now if that were all of it he would have played when we used 3 corners.

My instinct based upon reports we have heard and butlers emotional state at the national anthem is that between Thursday or Friday and kickoff something happened and belichick decided butler just wasn’t in a state where he could play effectively in this game.

As it turned out we played big nickel most of the game. If that was the gameplan butler may have played 15-20 snaps but I’d the gameplan included regular nickel it could have been 40 or 50.
We don’t know if the game plan changed at the point B.B. decided he couldn’t use butler.

I’m just really surprised that people are looking at the coach who’s hand was forced to not use a player who had previously been productive and are giving the player a pass.

 

[PatsDeb]

Wait. Your argument is that a coach should abandon team roles and discipline? Wow, I guess if we did it your way we wouldn’t have to worry about losing Super Bowls or ever getting near them.
But which of these players were benched for an entire game, much less Sb?



And in other tens you can do whatever you want? And that would be better?


So what did butler do that made belichick give him more severe punishment than any other player has been given?



There have been many players that didn’t “fall in line” and none were benched for the SB.

It amazes me that you have watched how this dynasty has occurred and then as soon as something happens that you don’t like you decide that the coaching philosophy should be that there are no standards, no rules and the coach should get out of the way and let the players do whatever they want and have them entitled to playing time.

Andy you make me laugh. You move the stakes and then act all mad. You ask me to tell you why I think Butler was benched. I gave you a reasoned answer. You said there was no history of BB benching a player because he doesn't like him or doesn't like something he did, I gave you examples, and then your argument morphs into I am advocating that there be no discipline on the team and that the coaching philosophy be abandoned, none of which I said.

BB screwed up bad. Why is that so hard to admit? I am mad at him for his boneheaded stubbornness and his occassional pettiness, that I admit, usually works out well for us, but here in spectacular fashion, did not. That's it.

 

[Deus Irae]

Who's foolishly blaming Brady for the turnover, when he was hit mid-windup because the DL got a clean run at hm?

 

[IllegalContact]

What?

I am not blaming Brady. I am point out to the Brady Lovers, the hyenas that smell blood, listen to Felger and Mazz every day, and can't see straight, why on earth they think having such slow offensive starts, is a positive thing for the team?

Can you explain why?

The Philly D was atrocious. It was a shootout. We lost and they were granted a free TD!

Your narrative is hilarious......B.B. f.cked this game and you will use anything to wrap it around anyone but......you are simply wrong

 

[SVN]

Malcolm Buter Mystery: Not even Robert Kraft knew

 

[SVN]

Who's foolishly blaming Brady for the turnover, when he was hit mid-windup because the DL got a clean run at hm?

Some above are , along with the slow starts by the offense in the 1st half.

 

[Snooky97]

Well this thread has turned into a GDT.

Facts
Brady thrown for 505 Yards. That is a ridiculous stat. He was impeccable throughout the game expect for about two seconds when he didn’t get the ball out in time.

If your blaming Brady for this loss it’s ridiculous. He’s the reason we have won 5 superbowls without him there is no dynasty. What he has done is ridiculous in this era. I’ve seen some people and reports saying he’s no longer the GOAT. That’s crockshit.

We played brilliantly on Offensive.

Defensively we were ****ing dreadful. We didn’t match up with them how we should of done. Why Gilmore wasn’t on Jeffery from the start il never understand. Once Gilmore was on Jeffery he was not in the game.

Chung shouldn’t of been playing as a corner, the guy is a very good SS in the box and that’s where he should stay not moving him to cover WRs. TEs yes.

DMac should of been playing high safety alongside Harmon like he normally does.

We were diabolically bad on defensive and we didn’t adjust at all. Which is unlike us.

Who should we blame?

Honestly I blame BB. BUT not completely he was poor from his usual standards of coaching and let us down. He put the players out and the players didn’t perform how we know they can, that’s a big thing people are missing. We had one solid player on Defence for the whole game and that was Gilmore.

We will rebound but to go and just blame BB etc isn’t right. At least try and make a fair argument with it all.

 

[IllegalContact]

Well, Brady did get strip-sacked and that pretty much lost the game. We shouldn't completely ignore that.

Other than that, his second half was amazing.

He took too long to look Jenkins off of white ..... problem is that he had Amendola straight in front of him for the first down .... it was 2nd and 2.....damned shame

 

[Steve102]

Theory:

Malcolm struggled BADLY with RPO. Made the wrong read better than 50% of the time in practice. Wouldn't this qualify as a football reason? *****ed at the coaches when he screwed it up. Blew off meetings because he was frustrated with his week of practice.

Is this enough to get him benched?

 

[RobertWeathers]

Do you admit BB made a mistake then and are giving him a pass ? Or are you supporting bill's decision. Which one is it.?

I don't have all the facts to say he made a mistake or not. The evidence is inconclusive to say his decision directly led to the team losing the game.

I still want to know what Malcolm did (or didn't do). Why is he not being held accountable to the same standard?

 

[IllegalContact]

Well this thread has turned into a GDT.

Facts
Brady thrown for 505 Yards. That is a ridiculous stat. He was impeccable throughout the game expect for about two seconds when he didn’t get the ball out in time.

If your blaming Brady for this loss it’s ridiculous. He’s the reason we have won 5 superbowls without him there is no dynasty. What he has done is ridiculous in this era. I’ve seen some people and reports saying he’s no longer the GOAT. That’s crockshit.

We played brilliantly on Offensive.

Defensively we were ****ing dreadful. We didn’t match up with them how we should of done. Why Gilmore wasn’t on Jeffery from the start il never understand. Once Gilmore was on Jeffery he was not in the game.

Chung shouldn’t of been playing as a corner, the guy is a very good SS in the box and that’s where he should stay not moving him to cover WRs. TEs yes.

DMac should of been playing high safety alongside Harmon like he normally does.

We were diabolically bad on defensive and we didn’t adjust at all. Which is unlike us.

Who should we blame?

Honestly I blame BB. BUT not completely he was poor from his usual standards of coaching and let us down. He put the players out and the players didn’t perform how we know they can, that’s a big thing people are missing. We had one solid player on Defence for the whole game and that was Gilmore.

We will rebound but to go and just blame BB etc isn’t right. At least try and make a fair argument with it all.

Throwing for 500 yards in itself is not a very good sign

I remember flutie throwing for 500 and losing to penn state by 30

Throwing for 500 is out of whack and means you’re fighting something else in your scheme and it so frequently ends the way this one did

They should have run the ball more early, but the pats and Brady are who they are.....they will never ride the run to victory .... too much ego for that

 

[SVN]

I don't have all the facts to say he made a mistake or not. The evidence is inconclusive to say his decision directly led to the team losing the game.

I still want to know what Malcolm did (or didn't do). Why is he not being held accountable to the same standard?

Well..he was dressed and made to stand for the entire game. Dont you want to question that ?Or you want to blindly believe whatever bill says that it was purely football related. ? Lets say hypothetically just hypothetically it was just a football decision based on "packages", you will be still okay with what BB did over 4 full quarters of not trying him 1 snap ?
I am just trying to gauge under what circumstance you think its okay to question BB. IF you think never then its fine, all these arguments are moot points.

 

[TB12TheGoat]

Throwing for 500 yards in itself is not a very good sign

I remember flutie throwing for 500 and losing to penn state by 30

Throwing for 500 is out of whack and means you’re fighting something else in your scheme and it so frequently ends the way this one did

They should have run the ball more early, but the pats and Brady are who they are.....they will never ride the run to victory .... too much ego for that

You’re blaming the offense? Lmao

 

[SVN]

Throwing for 500 yards in itself is not a very good sign

I remember flutie throwing for 500 and losing to penn state by 30

Throwing for 500 is out of whack and means you’re fighting something else in your scheme and it so frequently ends the way this one did

They should have run the ball more early, but the pats and Brady are who they are.....they will never ride the run to victory .... too much ego for that

Thats not true. Pats instead do whatever works. They dont go with some pre conceived plan that running and throwing should be balanced. Served them well over 18 yrs. The irony is that they went in with some pre conceived notion that butler isnt good for 1 snap

 

[neuronet]

Who's foolishly blaming Brady for the turnover, when he was hit mid-windup because the DL got a clean run at hm?

That turnover is partly on him. How is that foolish? Not saying Brady played poorly in general: he had an overall great game, especially second half.

 

[Ring 6]

Andy you make me laugh. You move the stakes and then act all mad.

I didn’t move anything and was by no means mad.

You ask me to tell you why I think Butler was benched. I gave you a reasoned answer. You said there was no history of BB benching a player because he doesn't like him or doesn't like something he did, I gave you examples,

No no no!!!

These are my exact words in response to your
exact words

I think he didn't play him because he doesn't like him

If your belief is that Bill Belichick would get to a Sb and then bench a guy he has played all season with because he doesn’t like him we just have no point in discussing.

There is nothing in there about “things they did” because you said B.B. benched butler because he didn’t like him.
Nothing in there about benching for a series of a quarter as discipline for wrong doing in a reg season game. Fill game benching in the SB because “he doesn’t like him”. Nothing e en close to that ever.

and then your argument morphs into I am advocating that there be no discipline on the team and that the coaching philosophy be abandoned, none of which I said.

You citing examples of disciplinary action to back up belichick being wrong. Were you not implying those were wrong decisions?

BB screwed up bad. Why is that so hard to admit? I am mad at him for his boneheaded stubbornness and his occassional pettiness, that I admit, usually works out well for us, but here in spectacular fashion, did not. That's it.

Now he is stubborn and petty? And you base this on what?

Are you still telling me that the reason he felt it necessary to make a drastic move and bench butler is meaningless because you think he cared more about showing up a guy he doesn’t like (who he has played consistently for years) as a big f-ing joke meant more to him than winning the Sb?
Do you realize how crazy that sounds?
It certainly seems that you think winning the Sb meant more to you than it did to belichick.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Comparing execution on one play to a catastrophic decision played out over 4 hours is ridiculous.

That’s my point