Malcolm Butler Mega Thread

[cmasspatsfan]

Get the heck out of here with that. The guy's a huge part of your secondary. Why suit him up? I feel like he embarrassed the guy. If it wasn't for his heroics in super bowl 49 we would talk about how BB's an overrated defensive genius.

He's a great head coach, no debate but he's thinking like a head coach, not like us fan boys who want to win no matter what . Never mind what he did in the past. What did he do this week.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

I tell ya what, the success or failure of 1 play or 1 drive can be galactic in its effect. Butler doesn't make that Int, Ryan doesn't get sacked moving him out of FG range, that Giant doesn't make the helmet catch, Welker makes that over the shoulder catch, Adam misses any of those 2001 kicks, Gilmore doesn't make that breakup vs Jags, numerous must have passes from Brady or catches from receiver X or block from OLineman Y. The massive effect of single events in a game is quite the case study.

I don't know why Butler was kept out of the game. I didn't like it yet it is what it is. Regardless, the Patriots came up one stop or one drive short on Sunday (the 2 min drive I thought was in the bag and still think it is if not for a fluke like what happened) but that one play, that strip sack, magnified everything bad just as the previously mentioned events magnified the good. That one drive is converted for a TD and 90% of this discussion never happens (right now how many in Philly are raging that their defense sucked on a galactic level and are screaming for change? Winning is one hell of an elixir).
So taking the single part of the SB event this year in order to rip apart the Patriots strikes me as hysterical. BB is fallible and that was never, ever in doubt. But prolonged winning takes a QB and a HC (among others). We have a great tandem, are lucky to have a great tandem, and based on that I'd be shocked if we aren't right in the thick of it again this coming season.
We lost, mistakes were made, no one is perfect(far from it), it sucks, relax. The situation and status of the Patriots really isn't as bad as some of you think it is and BB is extremely unlikely the petty inept monster some of you believe him to be.

 

[rads2005]

Don't really get this. If it was a curfew or marijuana thing as rumored, it doesn't seem to fit with Butler's statement of, "they gave up on me." It seems to point more to something like a poor week of practice with Belichick worried about the taller Eagles receivers.

On the other hand, if it was purely a personnel/game plan decision, I don't get why Belichick wouldn't at least try Butler out in the later quarters.

Sucks either way. In a close game like this a defensed pass here or there could easily have been the difference between a drive continuing vs a punt, or a field goal vs a TD.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

This whole divided locker room, defensive gameplan up in flames thing, I’m not sure how far you can really take it. Granted, I won’t watch the game again, but here’s what I recall.

McCourty played great as usual, making tackles and defending passes.
Chung also played very well, considering a very tall task against those playmakers.
Rowe played decently, as expected, despite giving up that TD. He had his share of plays where got beat, but Butler got beat often this year as well.
Harmon was solid as always.
Richards is horrendous, but he seems to play some snaps regardless of Butler.

The entire front 7 was absolutely dominated, forcing the Patriots to often overplay the running threat and generating zero pressure.

I didn’t see absolute meltdowns and missed assignments all over the field. I saw a very comfortable quarterback with a clean pocket and way too much time, able to find guys and throw them open despite coverage that was often adequate.

Sure, Butler may have made a difference, but the incredibly weak pass rush and entire front six were the biggest issue.

 

[SVN]

Of course it's possible BB f-ed up. He's screwed up 100s of times. Drafts. Game plans, etc.

Here is the thing I keep coming back to: He's going for SB #6. He's spent big money on FA and draft capital for players to load up for this year. The SB is in his grasp.

He's been coach here for 18 years. You know him. Do you really think he would freeze out Malcolm, his #2CB and SB hero in the biggest, the most historical game of his coaching career over something so miniscule as a curfew violation?

There is much more to this.

i am sure there is much more to this. I am just wondering why dress if you think he cant even get into the game for 1 play ?Over richards ? over bademosi ? Just make him inactive if you think its not a gameplan issue.

 

[Kdo5]

This whole divided locker room, defensive gameplan up in flames thing, I’m not sure how far you can really take it. Granted, I won’t watch the game again, but here’s what I recall.

McCourty played great as usual, making tackles and defending passes.
Chung also played very well, considering a very tall task against those playmakers.
Rowe played decently, as expected, despite giving up that TD. He had his share of plays where got beat, but Butler got beat often this year as well.
Harmon was solid as always.
Richards is horrendous, but he seems to play some snaps regardless of Butler.

The entire front 7 was absolutely dominated, forcing the Patriots to often overplay the running threat and generating zero pressure.

I didn’t see absolute meltdowns and missed assignments all over the field. I saw a very comfortable quarterback with a clean pocket and way too much time, able to find guys and throw them open despite coverage that was often adequate.

Sure, Butler may have made a difference, but the incredibly weak pass rush and entire front six were the biggest issue.

You are right. Not talked about nearly enough is the front seven. The Eagles OL just dominated us. Foles made some really good throws but also he just had so much time. It was also easy for Blount to reach the second level and that's when he killed us. Our LB's and the likes of Richards were hopeless.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

I see this two ways: First, I find it hard to believe that there wasn't *something* valid that caused Belichick to make this decision. It's extremely difficult to believe he would make an unnecessary decision that *he* thought might put the team in an inferior position to win.

With that said, I think it was the wrong decision in that regard, and you really had nothing to lose by getting Butler in there. If he gets beat, there's no difference anyway.

Which is why I am convinced that it is some discipline/behavior-related thing.

If it really was just football, then there is no reason for Belichick and Patricia to not go "what the hell - nothing's working, so let's try Butler in there. It can't get any worse." After all, that was basically why Butler got in the game in SB49! The plan and packages did not have Butler playing. But what they did have wasn't working so they tried him.

But the fact that they wouldn't put him in for even a single snap, even when Chung had to miss snaps, tells me there was something more than just football-related going on.

 

[Soliel]

Which is why I am convinced that it is some discipline/behavior-related thing.

If it really was just football, then there is no reason for Belichick and Patricia to not go "what the hell - nothing's working, so let's try Butler in there. It can't get any worse." After all, that was basically why Butler got in the game in SB49! The plan and packages did not have Butler playing. But what they did have wasn't working so they tried him.

But the fact that they wouldn't put him in for even a single snap, even when Chung had to miss snaps, tells me there was something more than just football-related going on.

I agree. B.B. is analytical as hell. By not even trying butler basically proves there’s a good reason beyond what’s being said.

 

[luuked]

Well it makes no sense either to activate 98% snap count DB and have him play on 1 special teams punt play. I wish they hadnt activated him and used someone else who couldve maybe done something with pass rush.

I know most probably someone already replied to you but for the love of god there was no CB depth behind Butler. If Gilmore hit his head and had to go out what then?

Butler was pure injury insurance and if Jonathan Jones was healthy then Malcolm would have been inactive.

 

[luuked]

And the “in case of injury” thing doesn’t make any sense under scrutiny. So let’s say Gilmore got injured on the first play, and then Butler plays the entire game...so his transgression couldn’t have been that bad if he could play the entire game under a particular circumstance, was it?

Yes.

 

[DarrylS]

It’s a damn good conjecture, about as good as saying Gronkowski would have helped if we trotted Dwayne Allen out there instead.

Still no evidence, just more conjecture and speculation.. fans discount how well Foles played Sunday nite.. also keep in mind the best D team in the NFC, Minnesota had 38 points put on them by the Eagles. What looked like an anomaly is not..

As a fan have not been all that enamored with Malcolm Butler CB Play this season..

 

[luuked]

Philadelphia Eagles wide receiver Nelson Agholor slips away from Johnson Bademosi to convert on third down

This was THE critical play of the game. Deep in their own end, the Pats stop the Eagles here, get the ball back and based on how the Pats were moving it on offense, take the lead.

Watch Bademosi off the line. Slow to react, poor tackle. Butler would have easily made the tackle.

So let me get this straight. You have people citing the Eagles staff via MMQB that they were happy Butler was not in the game and changed their playcalls to exploit that.

And yet there are geniuses here thinking that if Butler was in the game at that point that the Eagles would have called the same play to attack him?

If Butler was in the game why would we be even in the same situation? I thought he was our savior who would bring balance to the force?

 

[GorBelSer]

Yep, that sums it up alright. He was not part of a game plan but would play if another guy got injured on the first play, he had to be removed from the lineup because him being on the field would be detrimental to the team but would play if another guy got injured on the first play. If a player is inebriated, intoxicated, incapacitated, whatever in, you do not suit him up. No matter what. He is inactive. Brandon King is a DB, if his number is up he has to play over a guy you do not deem fit to perform. Belichick kept Butler in "he is with the team but not exactly with the team" limbo and it obviously backfired on all levels.

 

[lancerman]

Here's just the reality of the situation. Belichick's getting lit up by the media and former players, and one current player who is crucial to our defense gave a tactic approval to the criticism. We've also had multiple people insinuate the locker room was divided over it.

If it was ANY OTHER COACH IN THE ENTIRE LEAGUE you'd hear talk about whether this was a big enough deal to get that coach fired. Belichick should not be fired. He also shouldn't get a giant pass because of his history either. Butler making one tackle or one stop was very likely the difference between winning and losing. The Eagles went 10/16 on third down and 2/2 for 4th. Changing outcome on one of those 12 plays is likely 7 points off the board.

Belichick's fortunate that he's in the greatest of all time discussion and that the only thing this will do to him is put a stain on his legacy and have people say "yeah he's one of the greatest coaches ever, but he also likely cost a team a Super Bowl because he made a last minute decision to sit one of the best CB's on the team and refused to budge when it became apparent his defense couldn't get a stop". Like that's part of the equation now.

Now of course if it comes out that Butler was on crack the night before or nearly committed a felony or was punching coaches, etc..... then that's different. But Belichick's going to walk into next season with a lot of questions. And be prepared to hear about this when people talk about Belichick's place in history

 

[RobertWeathers]

i am sure there is much more to this. I am just wondering why dress if you think he cant even get into the game for 1 play ?Over richards ? over bademosi ? Just make him inactive if you think its not a gameplan issue.

Only to play him as an absolute emergency is my guess. Additionally making him inactive would have emotionally messed up the team 90min before the game

 

[RobertWeathers]

You went all the way down the rabbit hole in this thread.

Yeah what the hell....

 

[RobertWeathers]

Rowe was not the reason. He was who I knew he was. A 3rd corner, not a starter. The results were that he got taken advantage of by a top receiver. He wasn't terrible but he wasn't good.

Horrible tackling, Bademosi and Richards on the field, Butler decision causing friction in the locker room just before game time (if you believe the rumor)...all major contributing factors.

I think BB sprung it on them so late he avoided the friction part

 

[RobertWeathers]

Bud. Come back down to Earth.

"While the choice to bench Butler left Patriots fans scratching their heads, it also had a similar impact on the Eagles’ coaching staff. Philadelphia undoubtedly had game planned around attacking, or staying away from Butler, and one of their assistant coaches admitted they were shocked he wasn’t on the field. “After the first series or two,” one assistant told TheMMQB about when they realized Butler wasn’t in the game. “‘We were like, ‘This guy’s not in the game! They have 23 (Patrick Chung) in there. That’s crazy!'” With Butler out of the game, Chung found himself with the difficult task of guarding Nelson Agholor in the slot, while Eric Rowe was outmatched on the outside against either Alshon Jeffery or Torrey Smith. “To go after 25 (Rowe),” the assistant said of the Eagles’ game plan with Butler out. “We could get Alshon (Jeffery) out there against him. We had Rowe on our team here in Philly, we knew that was a mismatch.”

Read more at: Eagles Assistant Coach Reacts To Patriots’ ‘Crazy’ Malcolm Butler Benching

I'm well aware of this article.

My overall point is everyone is killing BB for being the same coach for 18 years and now he has a player whos behavior has been so egregious you don't want him to be BB anymore

 

[RobertWeathers]

I don't know, you saw that game. Would you say that defense could have played any worse? Pretty easy to call ********. Seriously, in the 4th quarter when they desperately needed a stop and Rowe gets beat for like the 6th 3rd down conversion on him... Malcolm couldn't have done any worse. Just stupid

When I say " help the team" I mean that on a few different levels. Like no longer being a player who will carry out his assignments.

 

[lancerman]

Only to play him as an absolute emergency is my guess. Additionally making him inactive would have emotionally messed up the team 90min before the game

You mean an emergency like the defense getting destroyed in the Super Bowl? If there was ever a time to say "our defense can't stop them, let's send our second best corner out there" that was the time. He shouldn't have even dressed if they were going to be that stubborn on it.