Malcolm Butler Mega Thread

[primetime]

Disagree all you want but it was pretty much consensus among Patriot fans, and even among Butlers biggest supporters, that he had an off season.

Butler's a guy who excels against certain kinds of receivers and gets exposed by others. He's sort of the exact opposite of Brandon Browner, who dominated bigger guys but got killed by anyone who could twitch and beat him off the jam. Butler's got maybe the best catch-up speed in football, and thus he works well against guys who beat you with route running on the double move or with deep speed. It's why he's traditionally played Antonio Brown so well. He would have been great against Agholor if they brought him into the slot and could have run with Torrey Smith. Rowe is competent if unspectacular (he was in position on the touchdowns he gave up, just got out-receivered on good throws) and could have been fine with Harmon helping him, and Chung and a linebacker would have been fine against Ertz.

There was a lot of analysis before the game that the Patriots corners matched up really well against the Eagles receivers, but once you started that cascading effect of replacing Butler with Rowe and Rowe with Chung or Bademosi and then putting Richards on the field for Chung... well, things fell apart. Butler may not be a shutdown corner but it's a big difference when the worst defensive back on the field is Eric Rowe versus when it's Jordan Richards or Johnson Bademosi (or, when Chung was injured, both).

 

[Gronk]

If there was no scenario you would put Butler in the game them don't dress him.

This is why it seems to me that whatever happened must have at least in part taken place between the declaration of inactives and kickoff.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Right, with the game going the way it did with Philly walking up and down the field, how do they not throw him out there to change it up (ala SB 49)

It has to be a personal issue with Butler. This is the same coaching staff that had no problem whatsoever putting Butler in in SB49 on Kearse when Matthews was killing us.

 

[zipster9]

Butler's a guy who excels against certain kinds of receivers and gets exposed by others. He's sort of the exact opposite of Brandon Browner, who dominated bigger guys but got killed by anyone who could twitch and beat him off the jam. Butler's got maybe the best catch-up speed in football, and thus he works well against guys who beat you with route running on the double move or with deep speed. It's why he's traditionally played Antonio Brown so well. He would have been great against Agholor if they brought him into the slot and could have run with Torrey Smith. Rowe is competent if unspectacular (he was in position on the touchdowns he gave up, just got out-receivered on good throws) and could have been fine with Harmon helping him, and Chung and a linebacker would have been fine against Ertz.

There was a lot of analysis before the game that the Patriots corners matched up really well against the Eagles receivers, but once you started that cascading effect of replacing Butler with Rowe and Rowe with Chung or Bademosi and then putting Richards on the field for Chung... well, things fell apart. Butler may not be a shutdown corner but it's a big difference when the worst defensive back on the field is Eric Rowe versus when it's Jordan Richards or Johnson Bademosi (or, when Chung was injured, both).

Definitely agree. Why all of the sudden the entire switch-a-roo ? Play the Secondary as you did the last 5-10 games. That is what was going for you. Win or Lose with what you have been doing.

Was this a pure BillB decision? If so, it was a mistake.

 

[mb6592]

Reading through thread confused about something... are people actually saying/thinking Belichick sabotaged his own team in the Super Bowl because was mad at Brady and Kraft? Ludicrous

No, I think they're saying "WTF happened?" And since no reasonable explanation has been given everything remains on the table.

 

[Pat the Pats Fan]

i guess he wasn't healthy enough to play from the flu earlier in the week. But, then why not an unhealthy scratch.....

 

[mosslost]

As of right now BB says it was not a disciplinary issue

THIS part is mind numbing.. Butler play 100% of the defensive snaps in the 2 playoff wins.. How could it not be disciplinary unless he was very sick..

 

[Wheelssps]

I would rather have had Butler playing the Richards position. Even if it was a big nickel/dime where Butler would have had more safety responsibilities than corner responsibilities. Would also have opened up the Butler blitz from a DB position, which I would have liked to have seen.

 

[Brewskies]

I think as fans someone should explain why he didn't play. It has to be more than flu because it was a late decision to change. They started him in all the other playoff games this season so why change now? However I'm not playing wasn't the reason we lost, maybe a small part.

 

[mosslost]

No, I think they're saying WTF happened? And since no reasonable explanation has been given everything remains on the table.

there were a couple of posts buried in one of these threads that he was trying to lose out of spite at Kraft. That is silly. I should have quoted those sorry. I don't remember where they were they might have been in the post game thread.

 

[mb6592]

@luuked on second thought, they might not have been prepared for this after all. At least not if you believe Rowe...

Eric Rowe on Malcolm Butler's benching: 'That wasn't the plan'

F---ing insanity! WTF happened? Why are we not all celebrating today? How could the real reason stay unknown? Is Kraft livid? Brady?

The more I think about it, the more it becomes obvious. Butler made an inexcusable mistake that Belichick (being Belichick) couldn't overlook. And don't be pissed at Belichick. It's his devotion to accountability that separates him from other coaches.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

I think as fans someone should explain why he didn't play. It has to be more than flu because it was a late decision to change. They started him in all the other playoff games this season so why change now? However I'm not playing wasn't the reason we lost, maybe a small part.

I agree, except it was a huge part. All we needed was one stop on 3rd down and Butler would have provided that.

 

[Nunchucks]

The only reason to sit Butler would be because he looked like crap in practice due to illness or he did not grasp the game plan due to illness.

But, by the end of the 3rd quarter, it should have been clear that what they were doing wasn't working and Butler should have been tossed in there, after all, how much worse could it have gotten?

 

[GorBelSer]

i guess he wasn't healthy enough to play from the flu earlier in the week. But, then why not an unhealthy scratch.....

Makes no sense to have him around while knowing you wont be using him at all (he had one ST snap after somebody got hurt and he had to get in). You are a man short even before the coin toss. If he was ill or something, Rowe would have gotten the start anyway, but somebody else (Reedy or Hollister) would be brought in for ST action to keep the rotation fresh.

 

[Soliel]

The only reason to sit Butler would be because he looked like crap in practice due to illness or he did not grasp the game plan due to illness.

But, by the end of the 3rd quarter, it should have been clear that what they were doing wasn't working and Butler should have been tossed in there, after all, how much worse could it have gotten?

He could not possibly have done any worse

 

[DaBruinz]

Why would Rowe lie? He is in hot water if that is not what the coaches had told him in the first place, not Butler who is well on his way out of Foxborough.

Who said Rowe lied? I said that it's come out that the decision was made prior to kick-off, contrary to what Rowe said. There are possibilities that make that plausible without Rowe lying..

 

[mosi]

Butler may have had an off season but Richards has had an off career. There is no way that Richards give you more of anything as compared to Butler.

 

[DaBruinz]

Based on the review it should’ve been overturned but the nfl didn’t want another catch conspiracy on their hands.

As for the play, Dmac had the biggest responsibility on determining how to play it. Freezing was the worst thing he could’ve done.

No. The worst thing he could have done was going with Ertz and leaving Flowers alone with Clement. Can't you give ANY credit to Foles for making a damn good throw?

 

[Brady6]

Brady would not be as successful without BB the same way BB would not be as successful without Brady. They feed off each other.

I disagree. I think Brady is driven with or without Belichick.

 

[RobertWeathers]

THIS part is mind numbing.. Butler play 100% of the defensive snaps in the 2 playoff wins.. How could it not be disciplinary unless he was very sick..

I can go on for hours re: speculation and the only thing I can come up with is he dogged it during practice during Super Bowl week.

It wasn't "disciplinary" and BB says it was a "football decision".

Its all I got.