Still Have Not Heard It Yet

[Froob]

So, you are ok with brady putting 14 or 17 points on sunday, making a few key gaffes along the way, and us losing, huh?

Ok

Meh, could take it or leave it. It’d be kinda neat to win.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

For good reason IMO. Law Firm was as JAG as JAGs come. There was no run game to commit to.

The Pats never lost a game in 2010 and 2011 with BJGE as the lead back. Go look back at the box scores and then remember how each game played out. Scatbacks as lead backsk unable to run between the Tackles well, does not work.

It's working for Dion Lewis this year, because quite franky, the dude has transformed his style. It's been fun to watch.

BJGE had 8 carries for 50 yards at halftime vs Balt in the title game, and then was benched for god knows what reason. Then, Brady proceeds to suck worse out of the finesse shotgun spread.

Just mindboggling.

As for the SB, BJGE had 7 total carries, before an obligatory last carry after being subbed in. Stoned, no gain, etc, because the Giants

Antowain Smith was a JAG, so was Ridley, but at least BJGE never fumbled which was an incredible advantage, which, tied to Brady's overall very good regular season play or GREAT play post-Moss in 2010, is why they lead the NFL in turnover differential.

NE"s D led the NFL in turnovers created in 2010 and led the conference in 2011. This means Brady had the ball A LOT.

Face it, Brady loves to throw and went finesse on offense in SB 42 and Sb 46. Shocking that he was willing to repeat the approach in SB 46.

The ideology was wrong and they got off track with that 2007 one trick pony offense. It was lethal, but it had a short shelf life and needed to be SHORTER.

 

[sb1]

I am not comparing the levels of each's talent. I comparing how silly it is to refer to a red herring as if it means something in January/February.

When Matt Schaub dusted our dynasty defense in 2005, did you you also have this reaction then?

They're outlier examples. Red Herrings. "Brady destroyed his phone"...No, he didn't. He bought a new one, creeped by the NFL front offices, and had an assistant destroy it.

You're pretty desperate here.

The defense was atrocious in 05, due to injury and other reasons in case you forgot.

Not desperate at all, you're insisting that the 11 Pats had a good defense especially in the SB when it just wasn't so.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

Meh, could take it or leave it. It’d be kinda neat to win.

We'll lose if we don't score at least 20 points. Really, it needs to be 25+. D holds to 20 or less, offense 20 or more, preferably high 20s. It's the pattern. It's always been the pattern for us and for MOST teams in this era, if not all.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

The defense was atrocious in 05, due to injury and other reasons in case you forgot.

Not desperate at all, you're insisting that the 11 Pats had a good defense especially in the SB when it just wasn't so.

"atrocious"?

Please.

They had some replacements to make but once Bruschi came back (he was there for that game vs Atlanta), they had their captain on D back.

I never said the Pats had a good defense in 2011, but I did point out facts as to why they were not as bad as you claimed.

I also can factually point to data in both the title game and SB that year, that shows what you are saying it not true.

I suppose you think the 2007 D sucked, too, because they couldn't seal the deal, gassed in the 4th vs the Giants?

2011 D was a rebuilding D off a Lockout and they flat out battled and overachieved.

These are facts.

 

[sb1]

The Pats never lost a game in 2010 and 2011 with BJGE as the lead back. Go look back at the box scores and then remember how each game played out. Scatbacks as lead backsk unable to run between the Tackles well, does not work.

It's working for Dion Lewis this year, because quite franky, the dude has transformed his style. It's been fun to watch.

BJGE had 8 carries for 50 yards at halftime vs Balt in the title game, and then was benched for god knows what reason. Then, Brady proceeds to suck worse out of the finesse shotgun spread.

Just mindboggling.

As for the SB, BJGE had 7 total carries, before an obligatory last carry after being subbed in. Stoned, no gain, etc, because the Giants

Antowain Smith was a JAG, so was Ridley, but at least BJGE never fumbled which was an incredible advantage, which, tied to Brady's overall very good regular season play or GREAT play post-Moss in 2010, is why they lead the NFL in turnover differential.

NE"s D led the NFL in turnovers created in 2010 and led the conference in 2011. This means Brady had the ball A LOT.

Face it, Brady loves to throw and went finesse on offense in SB 42 and Sb 46. Shocking that he was willing to repeat the approach in SB 46.

The ideology was wrong and they got off track with that 2007 one trick pony offense. It was lethal, but it had a short shelf life and needed to be SHORTER.

I agree on Lewis but disagree on A. Smith - he was actually a good RB, and very tough. Underrated as a pass catcher too. Our two best rush performances of the Brady/BB era in Super Bowls? Smith (01) and Smith (03). There is in fact an argument to be made that A. Smith was the MVP of Super Bowl 36. That ain't no JAG.

Law firm was a JAG though, I thought he was very overrated in his time here. There was nothing special about him whatsoever, he had average speed, he wasn't that nimble, he was average finding and hitting the hole, average at catching the ball, and he wasn't really a threat near the goal line like say Blount was, and was never a threat to have a big game on the ground. Sure he didn't fumble often, that comes with the territory when you don't do much with the ball. Smith was the same style of running back but much better in every aspect.

And the Pats had a very effective 2 TE offense, it simply made sense to go with it in SB46.

 

[sb1]

"atrocious"?

Please.

They had some replacements to make but once Bruschi came back (he was there for that game vs Atlanta), they had their captain on D back.

The 05 Pats were an average run defense and near the bottom of the league in pass defense in most meaningful categories. And they lost to Jake Plummer in the playoffs. Yes, atrocious.

I never said the Pats had a good defense in 2011, but I did point out facts as to why they were not as bad as you claimed.

And I demonstrated why they in fact were. If you choose not to see that then that's not on me.

I suppose you think the 2007 D sucked, too, because they couldn't seal the deal, gassed in the 4th vs the Giants?

I wouldn't say they sucked but they weren't great either. They were getting up there in years and it manifested itself the following year. They didn't have Brady but also the defense had started a hard decline that bottomed out in 2011.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

I agree on Lewis but disagree on A. Smith - he was actually a good RB, and very tough. Our two best rush performances of the Brady/BB era in Super Bowls? Smith (01) and Smith (03). There is in fact an argument to be made that A. Smith was the MVP of Super Bowl 36. That ain't no JAG.

Law firm was a JAG though, I thought he was very overrated in his time here. There was nothing special about him whatsoever, he had average speed, he wasn't that nimble, he was average finding and hitting the hole, average at catching the ball, and he wasn't really a threat near the goal line like say Blount was, and was never a threat to have a big game on the ground. Sure he didn't fumble often, that comes with the territory when you don't do much with the ball. Smith was the same style of running back but much better in every aspect.

And the Pats had a very effective 2 TE offense, it simply made sense to go with it in SB46.

BJGE was an overachieving JAG. To know your RB will never fumble is an amazing advantage. I realize that is how it worked out and was not some diabolical deflation of balls just for him routine, but it's a huge advantage in conjunction with Brady's greatness for TOP.

That's why when someone brings up the TOP argument, it makes no sense at all to see Woodhead with too many touches in SB 46, with a 17-9, 17-12 and 17-15 leads.

There should have been about 4-6 more carries mixed in there for BJGE. If Brady chooses a hand off to BJGE at the start of the game or the start of the 4th qtr when he throw that midbogglingly stupid INT, we win that SB,

Think about that.

I literally said at halftime vs Jax "do not panic, and make sure to keep mixing in runs like you are not trailing"...

We lost the mentality of what a run game meant from 2007-2012 and how it helped Brady including proper playaction.

 

[Kontradiction]

"atrocious"?

Please.

They had some replacements to make but once Bruschi came back (he was there for that game vs Atlanta), they had their captain on D back.

I never said the Pats had a good defense in 2011, but I did point out facts as to why they were not as bad as you claimed.

I also can factually point to data in both the title game and SB that year, that shows what you are saying it not true.

I suppose you think the 2007 D sucked, too, because they couldn't seal the deal, gassed in the 4th vs the Giants?

2011 D was a rebuilding D off a Lockout and they flat out battled and overachieved.

These are facts.

The 2011 defense was absolutely terrible. They were the second worst pass defense of all time statistically. Those chickens came home to roost in the Super Bowl. You're badly going off the rails here.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

The 05 Pats were an average run defense and near the bottom of the league in pass defense in most meaningful categories. And they lost to Jake Plummer in the playoffs. Yes, atrocious.



And I demonstrated why they in fact were. If you choose not to see that then that's not on me.



I wouldn't say they sucked but they weren't great either. They were getting up there in years and it manifested itself the following year. They didn't have Brady but also the defense had started a hard decline that bottomed out in 2011.

Was that the same game where Ashley Lelie was covered beautifully by Samuel, with inside position all the way into the end zone, where the ball was thrown 5 yards pas the end zone and a flag came out to give Denver 1st and goal? Was that the game?

Was that also the game where Brady threw a PUTRID Pick 6 to Champ Bailey, but it was REALLY a fumble over the pylon for a touchback after a brilliant effort play by Ben Watson? I think it is!

We didn't lose that game. We had that stolen from us. Would happen the next year in Indy, too. Goodell was in position already. "Faceguarding on Ellis Hobbs, 1st and goal Indy."

Blech.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

The 2011 defense was absolutely terrible. They were the second worst pass defense of all time statistically. Those chickens came home to roost in the Super Bowl. You're badly going off the rails here.

Except they played well in the SB compared to their regular season stats. Facts are not "off the rails". They are facts.

They played BETTER in the postseason than they did in the regular seasons. The offense did the opposite.

Again, pure facts.

The worst thing the D did in that game was an offsides by Nink and the football not rolling closer to a Pats player on 2 fumbles they created.

If that is seriously the only complaints, umm, that's pretty good.

I'll take 13 points allowed by our D this Sunday. Oh, yes I will.

But, will Brady avoid huge gaffes? We'll see.

 

[sb1]

BJGE was an overachieving JAG. To know your RB will never fumble is an amazing advantage. I realize that is how it worked out and was not some diabolical deflation of balls just for him routine, but it's a huge advantage in conjunction with Brady's greatness for TOP.

That's why when someone brings up the TOP argument, it makes no sense at all to see Woodhead with too many touches in SB 46, with a 17-9, 17-12 and 17-15 leads.

There should have been about 4-6 more carries mixed in there for BJGE. If Brady chooses a hand off to BJGE at the start of the game or the start of the 4th qtr when he throw that midbogglingly stupid INT, we win that SB,

Think about that.

I literally said at halftime vs Jax "do not panic, and make sure to keep mixing in runs like you are not trailing"...

We lost the mentality of what a run game meant from 2007-2012 and how it helped Brady including proper playaction.

The Giants had a close to bottom third rush defense. Telling, IMO, that the Pats chose not to attack it with our so called lead back. He managed 10 carries for 44 yards, but if you exclude a 17 yard run that becomes a very mediocre 3.0 YPC. Blount and Lewis would have had a field day against that... and the Giants would have backed off their aggressive pass rush.

When you're an average back like Law firm, not fumbling is nice but it's also a byproduct of not being good enough to take chances with the ball and make plays. Like a game manager QB in a way, who doesn't throw a lot of picks...

 

[TommyD4207]

For good reason IMO. Law Firm was as JAG as JAGs come. There was no run game to commit to.

I was always partial to Benjarvus JAG-Ellis.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

The 05 Pats were an average run defense and near the bottom of the league in pass defense in most meaningful categories. And they lost to Jake Plummer in the playoffs. Yes, atrocious.



And I demonstrated why they in fact were. If you choose not to see that then that's not on me.



I wouldn't say they sucked but they weren't great either. They were getting up there in years and it manifested itself the following year. They didn't have Brady but also the defense had started a hard decline that bottomed out in 2011.

Umm, what do you think BB was doing in 2009 and 2010 as a GM, trading out of the first rd, unloading old players for picks, and knowing a Rookie Cap was coming in 2011?

Anyone thinking the 2010 and 2011 Ds, in an offensive era, were SB ready, simply was not paying attention.

 

[Nehalem]

Can't fault the quarterback when he hands the defensive unit the keys with the lead while telling them that all that unit has to do is not allow a touchdown... and then that unit allows an 88 yard drive for a touchdown while leaving the offense with very little time to respond.

In the last 40 years there is only one team to win a SB and score less than 20 points. The 2007 NYG.

The offense failed to score 20 points in both 2007 and 2011. You absolutely can fault Brady and the offense for not putting up 20 points.

 

[sb1]

Except they played well in the SB compared to their regular season stats. Facts are not "off the rails". They are facts.

They played BETTER in the postseason than they did in the regular seasons. The offense did the opposite.

Again, pure facts.

The worst thing the D did in that game was an offsides by Nink and the football not rolling closer to a Pats player on 2 fumbles they created.

If that is seriously the only complaints, umm, that's pretty good.

I'll take 13 points allowed by our D this Sunday. Oh, yes I will.

But, will Brady avoid huge gaffes? We'll see.

13 points allowed to the Eagles on Sunday will be far more impressive than 13 points and 28/114 yards rushing allowed to the weak 2011 Giants, that's for sure.

 

[Soliel]

The Pats never lost a game in 2010 and 2011 with BJGE as the lead back. Go look back at the box scores and then remember how each game played out. Scatbacks as lead backsk unable to run between the Tackles well, does not work.

It's working for Dion Lewis this year, because quite franky, the dude has transformed his style. It's been fun to watch.

BJGE had 8 carries for 50 yards at halftime vs Balt in the title game, and then was benched for god knows what reason. Then, Brady proceeds to suck worse out of the finesse shotgun spread.

Just mindboggling.

As for the SB, BJGE had 7 total carries, before an obligatory last carry after being subbed in. Stoned, no gain, etc, because the Giants

Antowain Smith was a JAG, so was Ridley, but at least BJGE never fumbled which was an incredible advantage, which, tied to Brady's overall very good regular season play or GREAT play post-Moss in 2010, is why they lead the NFL in turnover differential.

NE"s D led the NFL in turnovers created in 2010 and led the conference in 2011. This means Brady had the ball A LOT.

Face it, Brady loves to throw and went finesse on offense in SB 42 and Sb 46. Shocking that he was willing to repeat the approach in SB 46.

The ideology was wrong and they got off track with that 2007 one trick pony offense. It was lethal, but it had a short shelf life and needed to be SHORTER.

You dislike brady don’t you? I’ve read many posts and you attack him like a steeler fan

 

[Chris Stevenson]

You dislike brady don’t you? I’ve read many posts and you attack him like a steeler fan

nope. i am just a homer or phony

 

[sb1]

Brady was complacent with all his success.

Head got a bit big.

Sucks to admit, but it's true, IMO. BB drafted Garoppolo and Brady changed for the better.

There is no way you can tell me Brady's postseasons from 2007-2012, are on the same level of his 2014-2017 postseasons.

I don't think Brady was complacent at all. He wasn't deaf or oblivious either, he heard the talk about spygate and tainted legacies. I think that motivated him more than anything else.

At no time was JG a serious threat to Brady's job.

 

[Soliel]

nope. i am just a homer or phony

I don’t expect homerism. You sir, you do not like brady. Your words bear this out.