Did anyone hear Mike Lynch's explanation of how the video gave the Pats an advantage?

[Nordy]

Re: Did anyone hear Mike Lynch's explanation of how the video gave the Pats an advant

that's my point. we don't know. and nobody can produce methodology or any reasonable explanation as to why its unfair.

and until i see that, I remain skeptical that this is a big deal.

It is a big deal because our whole last six years are now being questioned!

 

[onegameatatime]

Re: Did anyone hear Mike Lynch's explanation of how the video gave the Pats an advant

The ability to review at a later date. Everyone is getting up in arms about the Jet game, but that is terribly naive and foolish. There is just no enough time to break the film down unless the camera transmitted a live feed to someone else who was breaking the plays down live. But then, like you said how is that all that much different from just having a guy jotting down the signals, plays and formations? All it does is complicate it *and* add evidence.

But where it will help is with reviewing at a later date. To have a catalog of signals from all relevent coaches in the league would come in very handy.

Oddly enough, people are making accusations that couldn't possibly happen, but the real possibility is worse. It is entirely realistic to believe that NE taped the calls from the three Jet games last year and used that info in this game.

Why would this be worse? If the signals are out in the open from prior games and the Jets do not change up signals?

 

[naclone]

Re: Did anyone hear Mike Lynch's explanation of how the video gave the Pats an advant

It is a big deal because our whole last six years are now being questioned!

not by anybody who matters.

 

[naclone]

Re: Did anyone hear Mike Lynch's explanation of how the video gave the Pats an advant

I read somewhere that the videographer shoots the signals while talking into the camera telling what's actually happening with the opponents D on the field. This can obviously be looked at fairly quickly and some basic info deduced.

The Globe has an article that gives some insight into the advantage:

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2007/09/12/in_nfl_stealers_have_edge/

The key advantage seems to be that it could help you in a critical play or two if you succeed in deciphering the signals and communicating that to the QB.

From the article:

Mark Whipple, the former University of Massachusetts head coach and Pittsburgh Steelers quarterbacks coach. "'It always comes to one play, the fourth quarter, and if you can make that call, at that time, and you know what they're doing, it's a great advantage.'

...

"One NFL assistant explained that the offense already has a built-in advantage because the quarterback has a communication device in his helmet that allows him to hear an assistant coach while in the huddle. If the offensive team identifies the defensive personnel on the field - and decodes the signal relayed to those defenders - it's possible the quarterback could be told what to expect."

...

"'If you know the coverages for the passing game and when a defense is going to come with a blitz, you can have the counter for those moves ready and it sure makes it a lot easier,'" Whipple said.

Again, there's nothing here specifically about videotape. All of this can and is done regularly using legal methods.

 

[PonyExpress]

Re: Did anyone hear Mike Lynch's explanation of how the video gave the Pats an advant

It is a big deal because our whole last six years are now being questioned!

We have to deal with naysayers. The Steelers of the 1970s are known for having introduced Steroids into the game. Does anybody question their dynasty? No. The Broncos stole sign via lip readers, broke the salary cap rules, relied on chop blocks, now banned. Does anybody question Elway's credentials? No. Cowhers' Steelers received HGH through their team doctor. Does anyone question his title? No. Dealing with naysayers is part of the mautration process of a fan base. It will make the true fans more passionate and more rabid, and enlievn the home atmosphere over time. In the end our love for our team will overwhelm them.

 

[naclone]

Re: Did anyone hear Mike Lynch's explanation of how the video gave the Pats an advant

Then why are they doing it?

I don't have any idea. which is why I am desperate for somebody produce some rationale for it. Right now, given the information we have there's no reason to come to the conclusion that videotaping the sidelines is a more effective means of stealing signals than legal methods.

 

[QuiGon]

Re: Did anyone hear Mike Lynch's explanation of how the video gave the Pats an advant

i understand how it is possible. what i don't understand, and what nobody has been able to produce yet, is how the videotape makes it any easier or more effective than simply writing down the signals on a piece of paper.

I think it is so ridiculously self evident that actual video footage is better than a description that this point can't even really be discussed. Watching a D.C. do his signals a couple times over and over, maybe a few times in slow motion, is going to be much better than reading some description.

do you have any idea how time consuming it is to break down 90 minutes of video?

What 90 minutes...? It's probably about 5 seconds per play... multiply that by 100 plays in the first half (which is an obscenely high estimate, there aren't that many plays per half) and you have less than 10 minutes of footage.

my point is, videotaping does not appear to give any advantage over legal methods of stealing signals. if it does, what are they?

Simply logic suggests there is an advantage... if there wasn't any advantage, they wouldn't have done it.

 

[Fahrenhype]

Re: Did anyone hear Mike Lynch's explanation of how the video gave the Pats an advant

That would require that Mangini would know about the Pats' taping, yet not change the signals. Somehow, that doesn't compute either.

At this point we have to believe that Mangina ignited a sting operation that would bring the credentials that got him a head coaching position into question. He's either as crazy as Belichick (in which case, take heart Jets fans, you will win many games in the future) or the reporting on this is too sloppy.

Mort and ESPN are bozos. Florio doesn't have an agenda, he just wants hits (notice "moss to be cut?" followed by equally useless "moss has a great practice" a few days later). I just really want to know about what Adam Schefter has been saying. If there is no "smoking gun" than what on earth is he talking about?

 

[naclone]

Re: Did anyone hear Mike Lynch's explanation of how the video gave the Pats an advant

I think it is so ridiculously self evident that actual video footage is better than a description that this point can't even really be discussed. Watching a D.C. do his signals a couple times over and over, maybe a few times in slow motion, is going to be much better than reading some description.What 90 minutes...? It's probably about 5 seconds per play... multiply that by 100 plays in the first half (which is an obscenely high estimate, there aren't that many plays per half) and you have less than 10 minutes of footage.
Simply logic suggests there is an advantage... if there wasn't any advantage, they wouldn't have done it.

So the camera man is "in-camera editing" by starting and stopping the camera? He's not shooting continuously? What if he doesn't turn it on in time? What if he turns it off too soon and misses a change of signal? I don't buy it. He might turn it off during TV timeouts and a few other spots, but it's still a lot of tape to break down. I used to be a video producer. It takes an awful lot of time going back and forth in a tape trying to find stuff.

And sorry, but just because they were doing it does not in anyway mean the reason they were doing it provides a competitive advantage.

Sammy Sosa was found to have use corked bats. However it has been scientifically proven that corked bats do not help you hit home runs. so why was he doing it? I have no idea. But just because he did it doesn't mean it gave him an advantage. your simple logic is flawed.

 

[labman]

Re: Did anyone hear Mike Lynch's explanation of how the video gave the Pats an advant

This has been my contention from the onset, what is the advantage... as time goes on it seems more and more that this is about a rule violation, not about cheating.

A rule violation is cheating. Especially if the Pats were warned about doing this previously.

 

[QuiGon]

Re: Did anyone hear Mike Lynch's explanation of how the video gave the Pats an advant

So the camera man is "in-camera editing" by starting and stopping the camera? He's not shooting continuously? What if he doesn't turn it on in time?

Well, being that the cameraman isn't a 5 year old, I think he can handle the not-too-complicated aspect of turning it on as the signals are coming in and turning it off shortly thereafter. What do you think..? He just kept it running through TV time outs and injuries and stuff like that...?

What if he turns it off too soon and misses a change of signal? I don't buy it. He might turn it off during TV timeouts and a few other spots, but it's still a lot of tape to break down. I used to be a video producer. It takes an awful lot of time going back and forth in a tape trying to find stuff.

Did you ever produce an NFL video..? No..? then you have no more experience in this area than any of the rest of us.

And sorry, but just because they were doing it does not in anyway mean the reason they were doing it provides a competitive advantage.

Don't be sorry... it isn't my fault you can't see the very simple logic I have presented.

Sammy Sosa was found to have use corked bats. However it has been scientifically proven that corked bats do not help you hit home runs.

Um, no it hasn't. What color is the sky on your world..? Corked bats provide an advantage by allowing a player to increase bat speed. There has never been any scientific study "proving" that corked bats don't help.

No offense, but you really don't seem to know what you are talking about in either football or baseball. The fact that you are completely making stuff up pretty much supports my point.

 

[labman]

Re: Did anyone hear Mike Lynch's explanation of how the video gave the Pats an advant

And sorry, but just because they were doing it does not in anyway mean the reason they were doing it provides a competitive advantage.

Sure it does. You know as well as I do that if there was no benefit to it, BB would not waste time doing it. Hey, I wish they were never caught doing this too, but they are clearly against the rules in this matter.

 

[Bill's Girl]

Re: Did anyone hear Mike Lynch's explanation of how the video gave the Pats an advant

Oh just listen to WEEI this morning. D&C had plenty to say on it. Did you know that every successful play the Patriots have run on offense under BB has been successful because of "cheating"?

Or watch ESPN, you get the same idea from some of the "experts". Or NFL-N. Or any number of other outlets. It is scary how this has turned into a damning of the Patriots vs exposing potentially a larger, league-wide issue.

OMG, Dennis and Calllaghan said THAT?? You know, I love Patriot Monday, D&C interview Tommy, Dale and Holley usually get Rosie or Rodney or one of the defensive guys and the Big Show gets BB. Maybe the Patriots need to boycott WEEI like the writers from the Boston Globe did?

 

[Bill's Girl]

Re: Did anyone hear Mike Lynch's explanation of how the video gave the Pats an advant

Well, being that the cameraman isn't a 5 year old, I think he can handle the not-too-complicated aspect of turning it on as the signals are coming in and turning it off shortly thereafter. What do you think..? He just kept it running through TV time outs and injuries and stuff like that...?
Did you ever produce an NFL video..? No..? then you have no more experience in this area than any of the rest of us.
Don't be sorry... it isn't my fault you can't see the very simple logic I have presented.
Um, no it hasn't. What color is the sky on your world..? Corked bats provide an advantage by allowing a player to increase bat speed. There has never been any scientific study "proving" that corked bats don't help.

No offense, but you really don't seem to know what you are talking about in either football or baseball. The fact that you are completely making stuff up pretty much supports my point.

Actually, Mythbusters on Discovery did a whole episode about baseball and they proved that a corked bat did not help hit a ball farther. In terms of bat speed they did not see a faster result with this either and their suggestion was to simply use a lighter bat. Myth Busted!

 

[naclone]

Re: Did anyone hear Mike Lynch's explanation of how the video gave the Pats an advant

Did you ever produce an NFL video..? No..? then you have no more experience in this area than any of the rest of us.

Um, no it hasn't. What color is the sky on your world..? Corked bats provide an advantage by allowing a player to increase bat speed. There has never been any scientific study "proving" that corked bats don't help.

nope never produced an NFL video. Do their tapes track backward and forward quicker than other tapes?

and here's from a wiki search on corked bats...

"A lighter bat gives a hitter a quicker swing and may improve the hitter's timing. However, according to the Mythbusters August 8, 2007 Baseball special, the ball hit by a corked bat travels at only half the speed of a ball hit by an unmodified bat, causing it to go a shorter distance. The cork inside the bat actually absorbs the kinetic energy like a sponge, hindering the batter's performance."

not conclusive, but it was a scientific study. I'll retract my assertion anyway.

 

[Grogan's neck roll]

Re: Did anyone hear Mike Lynch's explanation of how the video gave the Pats an advant

Well, being that the cameraman isn't a 5 year old, I think he can handle the not-too-complicated aspect of turning it on as the signals are coming in and turning it off shortly thereafter. What do you think..? He just kept it running through TV time outs and injuries and stuff like that...?
Did you ever produce an NFL video..? No..? then you have no more experience in this area than any of the rest of us.
Don't be sorry... it isn't my fault you can't see the very simple logic I have presented.
Um, no it hasn't. What color is the sky on your world..? Corked bats provide an advantage by allowing a player to increase bat speed. There has never been any scientific study "proving" that corked bats don't help.

No offense, but you really don't seem to know what you are talking about in either football or baseball. The fact that you are completely making stuff up pretty much supports my point.

Nicely done!

 

[naclone]

Re: Did anyone hear Mike Lynch's explanation of how the video gave the Pats an advant

Sure it does. You know as well as I do that if there was no benefit to it, BB would not waste time doing it. Hey, I wish they were never caught doing this too, but they are clearly against the rules in this matter.

Actually, I don't know that. I could assume it as you have. But I prefer to wait until somebody produces a methodology that conclusively shows that using videotape is more effective than legal means.

It may very well be more effective. But I don't know that. I don't have any idea why they did. or why they kept doing it.

I'm trying to find out just like everyone else.

 

[Grogan's neck roll]

Re: Did anyone hear Mike Lynch's explanation of how the video gave the Pats an advant

OMG, Dennis and Calllaghan said THAT?? You know, I love Patriot Monday, D&C interview Tommy, Dale and Holley usually get Rosie or Rodney or one of the defensive guys and the Big Show gets BB. Maybe the Patriots need to boycott WEEI like the writers from the Boston Globe did?

They didn't really say that, he was using hyperbole.

 

[lobster]

Re: Did anyone hear Mike Lynch's explanation of how the video gave the Pats an advant

With Bob Kraft's position on the NFL Executive Committee you would think everyone in the Pat's organization would be sure they followed the NFL's rules.

 

[QuiGon]

Re: Did anyone hear Mike Lynch's explanation of how the video gave the Pats an advant

Actually, Mythbusters on Discovery did a whole episode about baseball and they proved that a corked bat did not help hit a ball farther. In terms of bat speed they did not see a faster result with this either and their suggestion was to simply use a lighter bat. Myth Busted!

I've seen many of those episodes (cool show - I love the one where there sunk a boat and filled it with ping pong balls and got it to rise back up).

But Mythbusters had a few logical flaws that showed they didn't fully understand the purpose behind corking. The main purpose of increasing batspeed isn't to hit the ball farther... With a corked bat, you gain speed but lose mass so the net effect on the force of impact is negligible. But what a lighter bat (and faster batspeed) does is allow the batter to wait on the pitch just a tad longer. Obviously we're talking about fractions of a fraction of a second... but in baseball, .005 seconds can be the difference between a 430 foot HR and a long ball hit foul side of first base.