Celtics trade Isaiah Thomas, Brooklyn 2018 pick & players for Kyrie Irving

[AvocadoIceCream]

No... There's that little matter of the Brooklyn pick, sorry.

Call me in 6 years

I bet you anything that Brooklyn pick doesn't turn out better than Kyrie Irving

You wanna hold on to draft picks and build your team that way?

Good luck with that. Ask Philly how that works. It's very difficult

 

[YOUGOTMOSSED]

i know but i still hate it. it feels like a shake down.

Meh! Let the babies have their bottle. We're not going to miss a lame 2nd round pick in 2020 we got from Miami just so they could dump Zoran Dragic.

We got Kyrie, baby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[ausbacker]

I just have to laugh at people who are outraged.

Thomas is a soon to be FA with hip problems looking for a max deal
The writing was on the wall for Crowder, drafted Tatum and signed Hayward
The Nets pick isn't going to be a player like Irving (a great PG which you'd need if Thomas left after next season)
and the Heat pick is a 2nd round pick in 2020..... 2020

Irving is under Celtics control for 2 seasons after this season

Don't forget, for the first time in his NBA career, Kyrie is going to be properly coached. Given what he's done with lesser talent, I'm looking forward to seeing what Coach Stevens can do with Kyrie.

 

[captain insano]

A trade they shouldn't have made in the first place
A draft pick that should never have been moved

And now they add more to the pot? What the hell happened to that front office?

the owner got invloved this time.

Meh! Let the babies have their bottle. We're not going to miss a lame 2nd round pick in 2020 we got from Miami just so they could dump Zoran Dragic.

We got Kyrie, baby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

thomas was a second rd pick if memory serves.

 

[ViperGTS]

A trade they shouldn't have made in the first place
A draft pick that should never have been moved

And now they add more to the pot? What the hell happened to that front office?

Of course it needed to be made. That BKN pick will fall below the Lakers '18 pick. They upgraded the PG position with a tremendous player that is 3 years younger.

That second round pick is useless. This was a tremendous deal and one that will be looked back upon as a watershed moment in the NBA.

 

[AvocadoIceCream]

I love love love how people are bringing up IT being a 2nd rounder as to why we shouldn't have sent Cleveland the 2020 Miami 2nd rounder LOLLLL

the percentage of 2nd round picks that actually make it in the NBA is low.

The percentage that make an impact is even lower.

The percentage that become stars is almost 0 lol

So, if you wanna hold on to your 2nd round picks instead of trading for young superstars in hopes you'll find the next IT or Draymond Green, go for it... but your team will be absolutely horrible and you'll be fired lol

 

[patsfan13]

No... There's that little matter of the Brooklyn pick, sorry.

Depends on where they fall in the lottery, they aren't a lock for the worst record this year. We still have the LA pick if it is in the 2-5 range.

You have to give something to get something. Crowder is a nice player, however he lost his role on this team the 2-3 spots will be filled by Heyward, Tatum, Brown and Smart. His minutes would have delayed the development of Tatum and Brown.

The roster this year is better than last years roster. However I do anticipate the beginning of the season will be a period of adjustment with some many new faces.

 

[Deus Irae]

Of course it needed to be made. That BKN pick will fall below the Lakers '18 pick.

I'm not sure where you're getting this from, but that Lakers pick is protected, and the Brooklyn pick is not.

They upgraded the PG position with a tremendous player that is 3 years younger.

Was it an upgrade? Last season, Thomas was the better player.

That second round pick is useless. This was a tremendous deal and one that will be looked back upon as a watershed moment in the NBA.

It was a stupid deal.

 

[Deus Irae]

Depends on where they fall in the lottery, they aren't a lock for the worst record this year.

Sure, but you can't rate a trade based upon where a pick eventually ends up when that's unsettled, just as you can't rate it based upon the player chosen with the pick. When picks are involved, you have to look at opportunity value involved. That Brooklyn pick could have been the #1 overall. The Lakers pick cannot be that.

Now, had the deal included some protections for the Brooklyn pick, it might have made sense. Even a swap situation with the Lakers pick could have made it more palatable. Instead, in a draft expected to have quality bigs, which is exactly what the team needed (and still needs), as opposed to a point guard, they traded away the opportunity that came with that Brooklyn pick.

 

[ViperGTS]

I'm not sure where you're getting this from, but that Lakers pick is protected, and the Brooklyn pick is not.



Was it an upgrade? Last season, Thomas was the better player.



It was a stupid deal.

A) it's protected outside of 2-5. Also, the Lakers have a chance to be much worse this season in a devestating Western conference. The Nets, meanwhile are in a conference with teams that will be in full on tank mode. 28 wins is my projection and the 7th pick in the draft.

B) last season means jack squat. Isaiah couldn't finish the ECF, and Kyrie was unguardable. If IT got better, what does that mean for Kyrie? Plus he's 25 and will grow with the Jaylen/Tatum/LA-Sac pick.

C) only people who have a false impression of the length of ITs career and his ability to create his own shot in the ECF or the Finals are saying this was a bad trade. Even LeBron will find this, as his size and massive heart just cannot make up for defenses crashing down on him.

 

[DarrylS]

In the face of a franchise that will soon be losing face post Lebron.. the Cavaliers had to make some noise, even though it was a stupid effort to remain credible.. they know that a double flush will occur soon as they descend into the NBA cesspool once again.

Unfortunately, this will make other teams have less confidence in making deals with Cleveland... too much aggravation and too much ado about nothing, a second round pick in the NBA Draft???

 

[borg]

The way I see it, Celtics ownership/management didn't want to shell out max dollars to Tiny Thomas whose skill set is best suited as a 6th man scorer. This trade secures an all star quality PG for 2 years verses the alternatives: 1 year of IT who they then let walk with no Plan B PG in place...or...they pay the diminutive one and then watch him get swallowed up every other game in the playoffs by competent teams.

I recognize the guy's importance as the lone scoring threat on an overachieving team playing in a garbage conference....but now....Ainge has bought & drafted legitimate NBA scorers to spread the offense around ....and as underwhelming as Irving's defense is supposed to be, I just don't see Celtics defenders being required to cover two men now.

With Thomas at the helm, the ceiling was lower than it is now...IMO

 

[RobertWeathers]

Depends on where they fall in the lottery, they aren't a lock for the worst record this year. We still have the LA pick if it is in the 2-5 range.

You have to give something to get something. Crowder is a nice player, however he lost his role on this team the 2-3 spots will be filled by Heyward, Tatum, Brown and Smart. His minutes would have delayed the development of Tatum and Brown.

The roster this year is better than last years roster. However I do anticipate the beginning of the season will be a period of adjustment with some many new faces.

Yep. You gotta give up something to get something.

It's all about the perception of value.

 

[YOUGOTMOSSED]

the owner got invloved this time.

thomas was a second rd pick if memory serves.

Last pick of that draft; Kyrie was 1st. What an upgrade!

 

[Bill Lee]

Call me in 6 years

I bet you anything that Brooklyn pick doesn't turn out better than Kyrie Irving

You wanna hold on to draft picks and build your team that way?

Good luck with that. Ask Philly how that works. It's very difficult

Indeed. We've had some very big bites from the draft apple ( Boston Celtics draft history - Wikipedia ) over the recent several years. Clearly Danny rates Kyrie very highly and thought it was time to stop focusing on the draft picks and start putting things into high gear.

 

[YOUGOTMOSSED]

Sure, but you can't rate a trade based upon where a pick eventually ends up when that's unsettled, just as you can't rate it based upon the player chosen with the pick. When picks are involved, you have to look at opportunity value involved. That Brooklyn pick could have been the #1 overall. The Lakers pick cannot be that.

Now, had the deal included some protections for the Brooklyn pick, it might have made sense. Even a swap situation with the Lakers pick could have made it more palatable. Instead, in a draft expected to have quality bigs, which is exactly what the team needed (and still needs), as opposed to a point guard, they traded away the opportunity that came with that Brooklyn pick.

There's an excellent chance that the Laker's pick winds up being #2-5 next year so we can draft that quality big (Bagley, Bamba, or Ayton).

The Nets roster looks like it's significantly improved since last year and they now have a a half way decent coach; Lakers are expecting a wispy 19 year old PG who can't defend and has a weird looking jump shot to lead them out of the NBA's basement.

I could be wrong, but I think we kept the right pick.

 

[TeamFirst]

One thing is definite Ainge did not like the team that was constructed last year and they won 53 games.

 

[YOUGOTMOSSED]

Looking at the East, there are 5 teams that seem to be locks for the playoffs: Cleveland, Boston, Toronto, Washington and Milwaukee.

With Russell, Lin, Crabbe and Carroll, the Nets might be better than most of those other east teams. I really wouldn't drop dead from shock to see the Nets in the playoffs this season. And, if so, this trade will wind up being the greatest Ainge ever made.

 

[Bill Lee]

Interesting analysis / spin from Extra pick Celtics gave Cavs proves Kyrie Irving deal never was in danger ...

Well, everyone can relax. On Wednesday, Boston threw the Cavs a 2020 second-round pick to finalize the deal, which all but confirms this trade was never going to fall apart. Seriously, do you think Cleveland is suddenly feeling better about taking on a potentially damaged Thomas because it landed what could be a mid-to-high-50s pick three years from now? Do you think the Celtics feel worse about adding Irving because they gave up that pick? Come on.

This is an optics move. Nothing more. Once Cleveland decided to play tough, it had to come back with something, anything, if only to justify the fuss. Danny Ainge played nice. He gave -- gave -- the Cavs a pick of minuscule value, which he in no way owed them considering the rich package already in place. In doing so, Ainge avoided a potential disaster of his own in having to take back an emotionally, and apparently physically, wounded Thomas had Cleveland stubbornly, and recklessly dug in at the 11th hour to save face.

It seems the way this went down is Dan Gilbert threw a hissy fit, got some push back from his front office and the rest of the freaking world, the CLE and BOS executives understood it for what it was, and Danny yielded the almost worthless 2020 2nd round pick so CLE could save face and everyone could move forward with a deal that had to get done.

In the end, it is just a data point that other teams should take in: dealing with CLE isn't going to be straight forward as long as Gilbert owns the team.

The Ringer's Kevin O'Conner ( Our Long Cavaliers-Celtics Trade Nightmare Is Over ) writes:

Koby Altman may be the latest person to call himself Cleveland Cavaliers general manager—the fourth in the last 12 years since Dan Gilbert bought the team—but multiple sources have told me that the Cavs owner was the one calling the shots on the trade that sent Irving to Boston, and he’s the one dealing with the fallout.

And:

Multiple sources told me that Gilbert is operating under the assumption that LeBron will opt out of his contract next summer and leave Cleveland. So Gilbert and Altman targeted Irving trade packages that set up the franchise for the post-LeBron era, rather than the instant-gratification deals they’ve made over the last three years (e.g., trading first-rounders for Channing Frye or Kyle Korver). A front-office executive from another team inquiring about Irving told me that knowing LeBron was staying in Cleveland would have changed what the Cavs asked for in return for Kyrie.

And:

Thomas’s health is what held up the deal, but according to multiple league sources with knowledge of Cleveland’s thought process, the unprotected Nets pick and Crowder were the pieces that Cleveland valued the most—those were the assets that got the deal done, not Thomas. The perception of the trade was that the Cavaliers and Celtics swapped franchise point guards, but for the Cleveland front office (and its owner), Thomas was the icing, not the cake.

And:

Multiple sources with knowledge of Gilbert’s mind-set believe the Cavs owner cares deeply about how the deal will be seen today and in the future, both internally and across the league—Thomas’s health and a less enthusiastic James and Lue had Gilbert shook.

So it seems this is about how Gilbert felt LBJ was dealing with the trade i.e. LBJ and Lue were told that the deal was to help them win now, but with a "damaged" IT that story didn't hold water, so they went back to the table. At the same time, everyone in the CLE front office knows the deal is really about improving defense with Crowder and getting the BKN pick so they have "something" once LBJ leaves. Therefore the minor concession was enough to save face and luckily for them Danny was gracious enough to yield the concession in order for the deal to go through.

 

[ohiopatsfan]

Glad the trade is finally completed. As I mentioned in an earlier post, the value for the Celtics depends on which Kyrie Irving they get. Hopefully, he has matured over the pouty, me-first ball hog he was when first drafted.