Pats considering Butler trade to Saints for Brandin Cooks

[PatriotsPimp136]

I wasn't aware we traded for Cooks.

The proposed deal on the table.

 

[primetime]

I'm curious who's a better WR than Brandin Cooks, where people would put him in the hierarchy of the league's receivers.

Here are the receivers I think are clearly better than Cooks:

1) Julio Jones
2) Antonio Brown
3) Odell Beckham
4) AJ Green
5) DeAndre Hopkins
6) Jordy Nelson
7) Julian Edelman
8) Mike Evans
9) TY Hilton
10) Dez Bryant

Note that not all of these guys fulfill the same role, too. These guys are clearly a cut above, though several of them are getting older (Edelman and Nelson).

The next tier of players are guys like Cooks, Demaryius Thomas, Emmanuel Sanders, Doug Baldwin, Amari Cooper, Larry Fitzgerald, Allen Robinson, Alshon Jeffrey, and Michael Thomas. I would probably take Cooper and Michael Thomas over Cooks since they're younger and have more potential, but that's about it. Demaryius Thomas is probably better right now, but Cooks is 6 years younger.

 

[ViperGTS]

Certainly feels like Butler feels like he's worth more than he is. So sad.

 

[catent]

Certainly feels like Butler feels like he's worth more than he is. So sad.

He's worth however much a team is willing to pay him. These type of posts are silly.

 

[RobertWeathers]

There are precisely two position players on this offense who make the machine run. Gronk and Edelman. Gronk is not reliable. And we have shown we can win without Gronk. Just as in the Moss/Welker days, its the first-down machine that the Pats need in order for Brady's short passing game to open it up for those other complimentary pieces.

If Edelman goes, and Gronk goes - and both have a lot of wear on them, the offense runs through them, and Edelman is 30 now - the offense goes.

The guy who makes the machine run is Brady.

Everyone else is important, but not critical path.

You are also not accounting for White, Lewis, MM and Hogan.

We saw the team overcome Gronk's loss. While its not the preference (to be w/o him) with the righ tmix of talent, the can be a highly productive bunch.

We can agree that JE11 is important. I think the team is in better position to absorb his loss (and I said Gronks) than in years past.

I was being unnecessarily unclear. For my purposes, Butler is a CB1 on the market. But on this team, for this discussion, he is CB2. CB1 was just signed for $14m a year for five years. Gilmore is now a permanent part of this defense, Butler's status is in the air.

Yea thats where you confused me. Butler is CB1 and I know you know that. Its a matter of time before he is moved

I am pointing out that an elite slot receiver is probably more valuable to this team than an elite CB2.

Thats where we disagree. No biggie. Moving on.

 

[JayNM]

If Butler leaves, I'd believe that something went sour between the Pats and Butler, but I can't really say I don't understand why things didn't went well:

- The Patriots found Butler, bet on him and made him what he is. You could see him improving, from 2014 to 2015 to 2016. Plus, The Patriots have the right to hold his contract for 2017, paying close to 4M

- Butler, however, is playing at an incredible level AND receiving less than 750K, while our Rookie, Cyrus Jones, earn more in his first year than him. Yeah, I can see him getting a bit upset. He is nothing but a hard-worker and if he thinks he deserves more money, I will not be the one to disagree. Let's remember that he plays in a business that you are worth much until you don't. Every game, he puts his body and, ultimately, his future on the line.

I think we are better off with Butler and Gilmore for a year, than Gilmore and Cooks for 2 (Not counting extensions, cause you can make a cause for both Butler and Cooks). But this is a business and BB has earned the benefit of the doubt. Nevertheless, I'd hate to see Malcolm go and yes I'd be upset with the move.

 

[PatriotsPimp136]

I'm curious who's a better WR than Brandin Cooks, where people would put him in the hierarchy of the league's receivers.

Here are the receivers I think are clearly better than Cooks:

1) Julio Jones
2) Antonio Brown
3) Odell Beckham
4) AJ Green
5) DeAndre Hopkins
6) Jordy Nelson
7) Julian Edelman
8) Mike Evans
9) TY Hilton
10) Dez Bryant

Note that not all of these guys fulfill the same role, too. These guys are clearly a cut above, though several of them are getting older (Edelman and Nelson).

The next tier of players are guys like Cooks, Demaryius Thomas, Emmanuel Sanders, Doug Baldwin, Amari Cooper, Larry Fitzgerald, Allen Robinson, Alshon Jeffrey, and Michael Thomas. I would probably take Cooper and Michael Thomas over Cooks since they're younger and have more potential, but that's about it. Demaryius Thomas is probably better right now, but Cooks is 6 years younger.

I think sanders's better than cooks.

 

[SalemPats]

The Pats don't leak anything to ESPN, this could be what the Saints want not what we're willing to trade

 

[PatriotsPimp136]

Defense still win's championships. I wouldn't mind keeping butler. I want hightower back though.

 

[SalemPats]

If Butler leaves, I'd believe that something went sour between the Pats and Butler, but I can't really say I don't understand why things didn't went well:

- The Patriots found Butler, bet on him and made him what he is. You could see him improving, from 2014 to 2015 to 2016. Plus, The Patriots have the right to hold his contract for 2017, paying close to 4M

- Butler, however, is playing at an incredible level AND receiving less than 750K, while our Rookie, Cyrus Jones, earn more in his first year than him. Yeah, I can see him getting a bit upset. He is nothing but a hard-worker and if he thinks he deserves more money, I will not be the one to disagree. Let's remember that he plays in a business that you are worth much until you don't. Every game, he puts his body and, ultimately, his future on the line.

I think we are better off with Butler and Gilmore for a year, than Gilmore and Cooks for 2 (Not counting extensions, cause you can make a cause for both Butler and Cooks). But this is a business and BB has earned the benefit of the doubt. Nevertheless, I'd hate to see Malcolm go and yes I'd be upset with the move.

I want to know if this source is the Patriots or a Saints official who wants Butler

 

[JarOfMayo51]

You realize the Pats have the money to trade Butler for Cooks and still make the appropriate moves on defense, correct? Belichick isn't going to just let that side of the ball fall apart to turn the offense into a pinball machine.

I feel like defense is harder to build and maintain continuity.. so it would be surprising to see them jettison so many of our quality defensive starters that have helped win 2 super bowls, then sign outside free agents to replace them

Like with Gilmore, why not just extend Butler who has been a soldier for you? Why trade Butler away and pay an outsider? Gilmore is a pretty good corner, but I don't think he's better than Butler... I still need to read the Gilmore thread and find out what we paid him... maybe Butler wants Revis money or something

I've just got to remember my breathing exercises... breath in... breath out...

 

[primetime]

I think sanders's better than cooks.

Agree. So is Demaryius Thomas. But both will be 30 this year, Sanders next week.

 

[Kontradiction]

I feel like defense is harder to build and maintain continuity.. so it would be surprising to see them jettison so many of our quality defensive starters that have helped win 2 super bowls, then sign outside free agents to replace them

Like with Gilmore, why not just extend Butler who has been a soldier for you? Why trade Butler away and pay an outsider? Gilmore is a pretty good corner, but I don't think he's better than Butler... I still need to read the Gilmore thread and find out what we paid him... maybe Butler wants Revis money or something

I've just got to remember my breathing exercises... breath in... breath out...

I think the Pats want Butler back but are doing their due diligence and getting ready to move on if things sour.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

We still don't have the #12 pick.

Yes i know, but BB may have something already worked out with cleveland.

 

[unoriginal]

We can agree that JE11 is important. I think the team is in better position to absorb his loss (and I said Gronks) than in years past.

I don't feel optimistic in either Amendola or Hogan in that position. Amendola will not hold up over a full year, Hogan hasn't demonstrated that skillset. The Buffalo passing offense was much more vertical than what the Pats run, and Hogan has been used mostly as a vertical threat here.

 

[BobDigital]

I'm curious who's a better WR than Brandin Cooks, where people would put him in the hierarchy of the league's receivers.

Here are the receivers I think are clearly better than Cooks:

1) Julio Jones
2) Antonio Brown
3) Odell Beckham
4) AJ Green
5) DeAndre Hopkins
6) Jordy Nelson
7) Julian Edelman
8) Mike Evans
9) TY Hilton
10) Dez Bryant

Note that not all of these guys fulfill the same role, too. These guys are clearly a cut above, though several of them are getting older (Edelman and Nelson).

The next tier of players are guys like Cooks, Demaryius Thomas, Emmanuel Sanders, Doug Baldwin, Amari Cooper, Larry Fitzgerald, Allen Robinson, Alshon Jeffrey, and Michael Thomas. I would probably take Cooper and Michael Thomas over Cooks since they're younger and have more potential, but that's about it. Demaryius Thomas is probably better right now, but Cooks is 6 years younger.

Cooks is very good. The Guys I put over him right now THIS YEAR without thinking:

Brown, Jones, Hilton, Beckham, Evans, Nelson, D. Thomas, Hopkins, Bryant, Green.

Those are guys that are just plain elite.

Cooper, Landry, M. Thomas, Baldwin, Edelman, Sanders, Pryor, Benjamin, Jackson, Diggs, Allen (If he ever stays healthy he'd be elite). Those are guys I could be talked into putting under him.

So I guess he is somewhere between #11-#22.

 

[PatsBoy12]

I hate this. Someone in the Butler camp must have really pissed off BB.

The last time I read anything about it had the negotiations at an impasse. It could be related to that. Maybe the two parties are just speaking drastically different languages.

 

[ViperGTS]

He's worth however much a team is willing to pay him. These type of posts are silly.

Right. So if a team pays Butler 30 million a year, that's worth it? No way. Butler has deficiencies that don't enable him to cover guys such as Jones or bigger recovers. He's a perfect small receiver corner. I want him back, badly. I love the dude. It's up to him to realize he isn't worth top top level money.

 

[primetime]

Cooks is very good. The Guys I put over him right now THIS YEAR without thinking:

Brown, Jones, Hilton, Beckham, Evans, Nelson, D. Thomas, Hopkins, Bryant, Green.

Those are guys that are just plain elite.

Cooper, Landry, M. Thomas, Baldwin, Edelman, Sanders, Pryor, Benjamin, Jackson, Diggs, Allen (If he ever stays healthy he'd be elite). Those are guys I could be talked into putting under him.

So I guess he is somewhere between #11-#22.

And he's younger than every player in that top 10 except for Evans, and every player in the next tier except for Thomas, Cooper, and Diggs.

 

[BobDigital]

And he's younger than every player in that top 10 except for Evans, and every player in the next tier except for Thomas, Cooper, and Diggs.

Sure but it may only be a 2 year contract. If that is the case it may not matter if he is younger.