No GRONK: people may say it doesn't matter, but it matters

[English Patriot]

Is it possible that the excellence/greatness that our QB shows devalues just how important #87 is? You see a lot of people in New England media and the football media in general say it simply doesn't matter as long as #12 is being #12 on gameday. That may be true to a certain extent but take away any number 1 receiver from their team and see how good they are in the playoffs.

That's why i say i can't see the Pats getting any better on Offense from here on out instead it will be more of a 'can we survive and make it over the line' sort of Offense without Gronk. What i mean by that is, having 87 on the field elevates this offense to the point where on 3rd and 16 you almost expect to pick up 25 yards let alone the 16 even against the toughest of defense. However when you don't have him 3rd and 16 becomes more of 'this will take an oustanding effort to make this' kind of play. That's what we will be missing and especially as the calibre of opposing Defenses and pressure rises.

Go ask the #12 in Green Bay how difficult it's going to be in Dallas to get out of a a sticky 3rd and long this weekend without Jordy Nelson. People are overlooking this because we haven't had Gronk for a while now and because #12 is superhuman and doesn't miss a beat we assume everything is ok. But look at the plays in the big moments that Gronk made in the post season when we had him out there. We are all hoping it will be Bennett that could make the type of play that Gronk made before half time against Seattle for the TD in the SB for example but at this stage it is just hope even though he has that ability in him.

I will never ever doubt the greatest QB ever to find a way but even Brady pulling off another Super Bowl run without the biggest game changer there is in the NFL will be nothing short of monumental in my opinion because every team needs their go to guy to reach the promise land.

 

[bormio]

Gronk is a game changer, no doubt, and his loss was big. But whoever wins the Super Bowl will do so without Gronk, so obviously it is possible. And we are in better position to play without him this year than in other years where he was not available or limited.

 

[English Patriot]

Gronk is a game changer, no doubt, and his loss was big. But whoever wins the Super Bowl will do so without Gronk, so obviously it is possible. And we are in better position to play without him this year than in other years where he was not available or limited.

Definitely we are in a better position than in years past but don't forget other teams Gronk's aren't Gronk because they don't have him and don't cater their offenses around a player like him. Dallas has Dez, Green Bay has Nelson, Pittsburgh has Brown and they are all number 1 and are considered their own game changing 'Gronk' in those offenses be it more or less effective than #87.

 

[IllegalContact]

except that the pats also have martellus bennett who makes plays

and lengel is fundamentally sound when it comes to blocking and will make a couple of catches because he will be largely ignored

Brady has the best WR group since 2007....the Pats also have good RB depth and their OL is playing quite well

Park this ******** right next to "the texans might win because the spread is so big"

 

[brdmaverick]

Of course you miss Gronk. The dude is a beast and turns what would be a close win to a blowout.

Without him, we'll have to settle for those close wins. If there is anyone who could do that, it would be Tom Brady. So sure, the road is much harder, but Tom is the best at making due with what he has.

 

[Hammer of Thor]

Of course the offense is better with Gronk. No question about it, and he is a huge loss. But since Gronk's arrival in 2010, the Pats have never been in as good a position to replace him.

Remember that the team won and finished high in the PPG standings in 2001-2004 before the team had a star on offense. They were able to do that because they had competent depth at the receiving position and, in 2001 and 2004 at least, a good running game. All of this on the backs of a strong offensive line.

That's how the team looks today. A solid offensive line both run blocking and pass blocking. A great fullback for both purposes. A great run blocking TE in Bennett and competent additional options in Lengel and Fleming. Dependable small inside guys like Edelman and Amendola, with taller outside options in Mitchell and Hogan, with Edelman being a great smaller outside option and now adding Floyd to go with Bennett as a taller inside option. And the taller guys have all shown the ability to get open deep so they can't just flood the shorter zones. And we've got two very good passing backs too in White and Lewis.

It would be a whole lot easier with Gronk. But if ever a team can survive without him, it's this one.

 

[English Patriot]

except that the pats also have martellus bennett who makes plays

and lengel is fundamentally sound when it comes to blocking and will make a couple of catches because he will be largely ignored

Brady has the best WR group since 2007....the Pats also have good RB depth and their OL is playing quite well

Park this ******** right next to "the texans might win because the spread is so big"

No one in their right mind thinks the texans are going to win. You can't be physically inept and deficient on one side of the ball and come to Foxborough in January and win.

I love Bennett and i was one of the first to say he will be the one to show you what he can do in Gronk's absence but until he does it's just talk right? Gronk is tried and tested go to game changer whether it be pre, regular or post season. I pray and hope Bennett rises up for us because we will need him to be that to get to where we want and you can't deny that.

 

[bormio]

I think BB this year focused on not making the offense so dependent on 1 or 2 players (besides TB12). Real emphasis on the running game - I think he challenged LGB to really be in shape. Beefed up the WR corps - even adding Floyd at the end - plus added Bennett. He apparently even nixed the idea of Gronk coming back for the SB and put him on IR. Gronk's absence is not going to be an excuse, and they are no less determined to win than before Gronk was hurt.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

No one says it doesn't matter, just that there's nothing you can do about it.

 

[English Patriot]

No one says it doesn't matter, just that there's nothing you can do about it.

Very true but the notion that he goes down but it's ok we go on is very insulting to someone who is already in the conversation for best TE ever. At the very least we are in a better position to succeed this time round but like i said monumental if this team pulls it off.

 

[SammyBlueCat]

The Texans have a good defense however I can say with a large amount of certainty that the Patriot offense will reveal that the Texans are not particularly special despite that fact that Gronk will not play.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I think we can all agree Gronk is an elite, game-changing talent. Catching, blocking, defenses key on him and free up other guys, etc. The man changes games. With him,losses become wins and close wins are blowouts.

Unlike years past I'd like to think they have enough talent on offense and defense to account for his production and ability to make plays when they are needed.

I think there will be a number of plays during the playoff run that fall into that "Gronk can make them can others" category.

They question is do players like Marty, Hogan, Floyd, Dion, Blount, JE, etc have what it takes to rise up and make a game changing play WHEN they need to be made.

That is the question.

 

[mosslost]

Is it possible that the excellence/greatness that our QB shows devalues just how important #87 is? You see a lot of people in New England media and the football media in general say it simply doesn't matter as long as #12 is being #12 on gameday. That may be true to a certain extent but take away any number 1 receiver from their team and see how good they are in the playoffs.

That's why i say i can't see the Pats getting any better on Offense from here on out instead it will be more of a 'can we survive and make it over the line' sort of Offense without Gronk. What i mean by that is, having 87 on the field elevates this offense to the point where on 3rd and 16 you almost expect to pick up 25 yards let alone the 16 even against the toughest of defense. However when you don't have him 3rd and 16 becomes more of 'this will take an oustanding effort to make this' kind of play. That's what we will be missing and especially as the calibre of opposing Defenses and pressure rises.

Go ask the #12 in Green Bay how difficult it's going to be in Dallas to get out of a a sticky 3rd and long this weekend without Jordy Nelson. People are overlooking this because we haven't had Gronk for a while now and because #12 is superhuman and doesn't miss a beat we assume everything is ok. But look at the plays in the big moments that Gronk made in the post season when we had him out there. We are all hoping it will be Bennett that could make the type of play that Gronk made before half time against Seattle for the TD in the SB for example but at this stage it is just hope even though he has that ability in him.

I will never ever doubt the greatest QB ever to find a way but even Brady pulling off another Super Bowl run without the biggest game changer there is in the NFL will be nothing short of monumental in my opinion because every team needs their go to guy to reach the promise land.

There have been 49 Super Bowl Champions with no Gronk.

 

[English Patriot]

The Texans have a good defenase however I can say with a large amount of certainty that the Patriot offense will reveal that the Texans are not particularly special despite that fact that Gronk will not paly.

Without sounding arrogant i will agree and was more looking at Chiefs/Steelers and then if they were to get there the cream of the NFC.

 

[English Patriot]

I think we can all agree Gronk is an elite, game-changing talent. Catching, blocking, defenses key on him and free up other guys, etc. The man changes games. With him,losses become wins and close wins are blowouts.

Unlike years past I'd like to think they have enough talent on offense and defense to account for his production and ability to make plays when they are needed.

I think there will be a number of plays during the playoff run that fall into that "Gronk can make them can others" category.

They question is do players like Marty, Hogan, Floyd, Dion, Blount, JE, etc have what it takes to rise up and make a game changing play WHEN they need to be made.

That is the question.

Precisely my point, plays where you KNOW Gronk would make have now become WILL the others make. 2 very different things although it won't matter much against Houston.

 

[mosslost]

No one in their right mind thinks the texans are going to win. You can't be physically inept and deficient on one side of the ball and come to Foxborough in January and win.

I love Bennett and i was one of the first to say he will be the one to show you what he can do in Gronk's absence but until he does it's just talk right? Gronk is tried and tested go to game changer whether it be pre, regular or post season. I pray and hope Bennett rises up for us because we will need him to be that to get to where we want and you can't deny that.

Bennett has had the most TD receptions of his career this year. And the Pats are undefeated without Gronk this year.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Precisely my point, plays where you KNOW Gronk would make have now become WILL the others make. 2 very different things although it won't matter much against Houston.

Right. Think about the plays he made in SB 49 and that insane end zone catch vs DEN in the AFCCG.

Those are examples of the plays I am talking about.

 

[mosslost]

Very true but the notion that he goes down but it's ok we go on is very insulting to someone who is already in the conversation for best TE ever. At the very least we are in a better position to succeed this time round but like i said monumental if this team pulls it off.

Not really monumental. The AFC is ****, Gronk or no Gronk. Someone is winning the SB this year without Gronk. The Pats have 2 home games, 1 is a total joke by your own admission.. then a one game championship. They alread did the 14-2 HFA thing. Winning this SB will be nice if they can do it, but monumental.. well that is a "monumental" stretch of hyperbole.

 

[English Patriot]

Bennett has had the most TD receptions of his career this year. And the Pats are undefeated without Gronk this year.

You fell right in to what i was saying, i know the Pats can win against Miami on the road in the regular season with or without 87 because Brady is that good he makes you forget that he was there to start with. But the post season is a whole different animal, there is no let's rest Brady in the 4th scenario and i go right back to what i said - i believe in Marty and his ability so for the sake of our team let's hope he is that guy in January and (fingers crossed) Febrauary

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Very true but the notion that he goes down but it's ok we go on is very insulting to someone who is already in the conversation for best TE ever. At the very least we are in a better position to succeed this time round but like i said monumental if this team pulls it off.

I absolutely love Gronkowski. He is an incredible talent, and I believe he is the best non-QB in the entire NFL over everyone, including a healthy JJ Watt, Antonio Brown, or Julio Jones. That said, it was very eye opening when I heard a Las Vegas oddsmaker explain the impact of losing Gronkowski on the point spread. Would you like to know how much the line is adjusted with him out? 1 point. And beyond that, the Patriots Super Bowl chances dropped about 2-3% when he went out. So yes, he is an incredible player and a big loss for the team, but the reality from people who truly understand football - where you have 22 players on the field - is that any position outside of quarterback is really not going to massively change a team's chances of winning games. Absolutely, there are situations where I think Gronkowski would have made the difference - SB46 being the most memorable and painful - but let's remember that even in that game, and in many games, the Patriots were certainly capable of winning. In addition, there have been plenty of games where even with a healthy Gronkowski, they offense has struggled.

Just curious, what do you think the Texans record would have been this season had JJ Watt remained healthy? I'm guessing 9-7. And what would the spread by on Saturday for this game with a healthy Watt? Maybe a difference of a point at most?