Mike Lombardi on the Jamie Collins trade..

[stelfans]

Sooo, more importantly now. How will they use Van Noy? Will Mingo get a bigger role? Is Roberts up to the task? Hey, at least Freeny is injured and we wont have to see him on the field.

 

[yopats]

Sooo, more importantly now. How will they use Van Noy? Will Mingo get a bigger role? Is Roberts up to the task? Hey, at least Freeny is injured and we wont have to see him on the field.

Exactly. Mingo has looked great in sub rush roll and Roberts is much more stout against the run.

Will be interesting to see how Van Noy pans out..

 

[JayNM]

Sooo, more importantly now. How will they use Van Noy? Will Mingo get a bigger role? Is Roberts up to the task? Hey, at least Freeny is injured and we wont have to see him on the field.

Lol at the Freeny part.

I honestly don't think either of these guys fit the Collins type (They are more of rushers/OLBs than ILBs) Van Noy even came here because he was not a good fit as an ILB in Detroit. Shea McClellin was also used as an ILBs in Chicago, but was rather useless. I thought BB brought those guys because he saw the Pass-rushing talent in them (Like he did with Sheard and Akeem Ayers the years before).

That's a good point, we are very thin.

 

[luuked]

Alright, if you don't have anything to post, other than insults, i don't need to talk to you. I come here expecting more of the arguments. If i wanted brain-washed insults, i'd rather go somewhere else.

Where the hell did I insult you. You clearly don't understand how the compensatory picks are awarded where its not primarily about the size of the contract but the number of qualifying FAs that we sign. That's how all of this has been working for some time.

 

[luuked]

Which fits with the traditional way of things here. Every year, this has been our way of doing things.

Except maybe you take a minute to check the amount of cap space we will have this offseason. There is a pretty good chance that we will bring in a couple of FAs which would cancel out potential compensatory picks. Especially if we actually hold on to most of the other UFAs.

If March comes and we did not sign any FAs and would have gotten a 3rd for Collins I will go through all my posts and upvote all your comments here.

 

[BradyFTW!]

"I have been all over how badly the Patriots defense has been playing all season."

This goes to show how meaningless a lot of stats, including opponents PPG, when you take away the context. Pats are allowing fewer points, but part of that is because opponents need to go to shootout mode to keep pace with Brady; that plays into the hands of this defense and its very good secondary. Sounds like Bill (and Lombardi) think this defense has been a paper tiger that would get steamrolled against a physical team in the playoffs.

I totally agree, but... man, good luck arguing that the defense has played poorly this year on this forum. The usual suspects have made an intelligent discussion on that pretty much impossible.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Clearly Bill doesn't see Collins as their 'best defensive player'.

Certainly not this year. I think it's fair to say he was last year, but Hightower and Butler have both played at a much higher level than Collins has this season. Probably McCourty too, although he can be tough to observe watching the TV broadcast when he's playing deep so often.

 

[JayNM]

Except maybe you take a minute to check the amount of cap space we will have this offseason. There is a pretty good chance that we will bring in a couple of FAs which would cancel out potential compensatory picks. Especially if we actually hold on to most of the other UFAs.

If March comes and we did not sign any FAs and would have gotten a 3rd for Collins I will go through all my posts and upvote all your comments here.

Every year is the same thing, man "Oh we have so much Free space, we going hard". Every year. Sure, if you want to think we are going to change our M.O., then sure. Plus, which FA is going to replace Collins? I don't think there's going to be a player of his caliber, in his position, in Free Agency.

 

[reflexblue]

If maybe they thought that Collins was holding the defense back, who will step up now and take his place? We need more than just Hightower and Roberts.

I think Mingo could do it, plus roberts was playing a lot of collins snaps anyways.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Which fits with the traditional way of things here. Every year, this has been our way of doing things.

Except when it hasn't.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Every year is the same thing, man "Oh we have so much Free space, we going hard". Every year. Sure, if you want to think we are going to change our M.O., then sure. Plus, which FA is going to replace Collins? I don't think there's going to be a player of his caliber in Free Agency.

The Patriots aren't into giving any one guy a ton of money, and they view upgrades all around the defense as a better investment.

 

[DefenseRules]

This is spot on.

Anybody with 2 eyes and no homer glasses should be able to see this defense is pretty bad.

I saw it yesterday. The offense has been bailing them out. I was yelling at my TV in the second half. The Bill's Qb moved his offense with to much ease IMO. He is not the only one either. All year Qb's have had their way with this defense,except for Houston. It has to stop. They should be getting better not worse.

 

[JayNM]

Except when it hasn't.

The last year we had more players brought in than lost, for the Compensatory picks argument, was in 2013.

 

[ViperGTS]

Certainly not this year. I think it's fair to say he was last year, but Hightower and Butler have both played at a much higher level than Collins has this season. Probably McCourty too, although he can be tough to observe watching the TV broadcast when he's playing deep so often.

Yup. He has. It's the return that's stunning. McCourty has been playing better as Butler has played better. It's a symbiotic relationship.

As Howe said, one sack from Collins. One. A scrub LB will run into one sack. I trust BB knows what he' doing, but he's a wild man for sure.

 

[luuked]

Every year is the same thing, man "Oh we have so much Free space, we going hard". Every year. Sure, if you want to think we are going to change our M.O., then sure. Plus, which FA is going to replace Collins? I don't think there's going to be a player of his caliber, in his position, in Free Agency.

No it is not the same every year. We are projected to have about 63-65 millions in cap space next year. That is considerably more than in a long time. That is the big difference to any of the past few years.

 

[JMC00]

Clearly Bill doesn't see Collins as their 'best defensive player'.

That was obvious when Hightower was given the locker that McGinest and Mayo use to occupy.

Dont'a Hightower Earns Gillette Stadium Locker Reserved For Team Leaders

 

[JayNM]

The Patriots aren't into giving any one guy a ton of money, and they view upgrades all around the defense as a better investment.

Agreed. But we would still have that for the future. PLUS we would have Collins as a back-up at least. That's my point, we are getting rid of a good player for 1 year of difference in the third or fourth round. That's why this is a atrocious trade for me

 

[JayNM]

No it is not the same every year. We are projected to have about 63-65 millions in cap space next year. That is considerably more than in a long time. That is the big difference to any of the past few years.

First: every adjusted cap limit expectation overshoots the real thing.

Let's assume this time, it doesn't. Every team is going to have a whole lot of money. Some may even have 100M plus to spend. We are still going to have to compete with teams for players. And which team doesn't over-pay for players? Not the 32 Million to Chris Ivory Jaguars, that's for sure.

I really think your arguments are based on future hopes that don't fit with recent history. Which doesn't make them invalid or anything, but I don't agree with the them. I think things don't suddenly change. Our way of doing things will, more likely than not, remain the same, in my opinion.

 

[luuked]

Agreed. But we would still have that for the future. PLUS we would have Collins as a back-up at least. That's my point, we are getting rid of a good player for 1 year of difference in the third or fourth round. That's why this is a atrocious trade for me

Its atrocious because your premise is flawed. Checkout the compensatory compensation chart of last year:

Compensatory Draft Picks Cancellation Chart - Over the Cap

What you will see is that almost any qualifying UFA signing can cancel out a UFA lost. So if we sign 2-3 of the usual 1,5m FAs those could cancel out the compensatory 3rd we would get for Collins and whatever we will get for Ryan.

Your mistake is assuming that there has to be close to monetary equivalence of signings which is historically not true.

 

[BradyFTW!]

No it is not the same every year. We are projected to have about 63-65 millions in cap space next year. That is considerably more than in a long time. That is the big difference to any of the past few years.

Yes but context is important there: specifically, the Pats have so much cap space because they have so many guys to re-sign.