Caldwell or Gaffney - Who would you rather have?

[BAM!]

Either you are desperate or not very swift.

First off, you were all over the place. You were swinging back and forth on your first point and then bring up stats from a game without saying what game it was... But apparently everything you say is true and everything i say is "speculation" -Again, I am sorry you have a hard time understanding how to follow a conversation but that's not my fault.

You said that once Gaffney did start to do something he disappeared.
When the hell did this happen? -First off I said that once he did do something opposing defenses noticed and then he disappeared because they focused on him more. I will reference the AFCCG that you constantly bring up. He was invisible until the 3rd quarter of that game. He lulled the D to sleep until THEY FORGOT ABOUT HIM. Then and only then was he able to do anything and it was against the Colts second or third string DB.


He outplayed Reche in all 3 playoff games and ended the season with 3 catches for 37 yards and an amazing TD catch to bail out Reche. His game was significantly better than Reche's 4 catches for 46 yards, 0 touchdowns and 2 drops while wide open.
-If you honestly, seriously think that Reche's Indy game was superior to Caldwell's then i am done discussing this with you. You are lost and there is no help for you. Just say it and we're done.
-I never said that Caldwell played better than Gaffney in the playoffs. Just brought up the stats to show you that Gaffney didn't do anything special against the Colts either.

you are speculating that Gaffney didn't start against the Lions because he wasn't good enough. who told you that? He didn't have all preseason and regular season to prepare like Reche.
This wasn't your point and don't pretend it was. -Again your inability to follow along or your complete bias against Reche has blinded you. MY POINT WAS for the last friggin time is that once people paid attention to Gaffney he was ineffective. I ripped apart your comparison between the two by proving that you can't compare the numbers of 2 receivers when one played and entire game and the other barely played. -And why do YOU think that is when a team has NO true #1 receivers and needs help at the position desperately? What excuse can you come up with? Oh, that's right, he only had 2 MONTHS to to practice and play. Sorry but that doesn't fly bub, not when you are a player in the NFL, he's a PRO, he's always supposed to be ready and after 2 months of prep time, that should've been enough to play against the Lions.

I'd hate to confuse you even more but a "game changing play" is a play that actually changes the game. I know that's a tricky concept to understand for you but that's what it is. You don't have to win to have it be a game changing play. -The way that you describe it every single play that changes a game like getting a first down, scoring a TD, punting, is a game changing play which they are not. You see a game changing play has an impact on the final outcome of that game. Did Gaffney's TD have any impact on the final result of that game? I know this is a tough question so I'll answer it for you. It had no impact on the final outcome of the game since they lost anyways.

EXAMPLE: RECHE CALDWELL DROPPING 2 POSSIBLE TOUCHDOWN PASSES IN THE AFC CHAMPIONSHIP GAME.
both are "game changing plays" -Again, this is speculation. You have no idea if he would've scored a TD because it never happened. Who are you, Mrs. Cleo? Do you have some specail powers that allow you to see a play unfold that never took place?

Also, after one of Caldwells drops in the AFCCG, on the very next play the Pats scored a TD so that drop had NO effect on the game at all. Nice try though.

 

[Keegs]

Also, after one of Caldwells drops in the AFCCG, on the very next play the Pats scored a TD so that drop had NO effect on the game at all. Nice try though.

are you kidding?

Your point is that Gaffney bailed out Caldwell.

Just take a step back and make sure you understand what you just typed.

I'm glad i caught this before you could edit it.

 

[BAM!]

where did you get these numbers? Are those from another "scouting report"? -Nope I got the from here: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/wr.php

I don't manipulate data, I don't ignore points, i don't make horrific comparisons and i don't say i've "owned" anyone when i've consistently been butchered in a thread.
You do all these things. -Where did I manipulate data? What points am I ignoring? You don't make horrific comparisons? What do you call comparing two players games in the playoffs yet ignore what happened in the regular season?

i've refuted every single thing you've said. -Without ANY facts other than Reche dropped a couple of passes.
Usually when someone says they "owned" something it's the first sign the've lost. -Didn't lose anything just refuted everything that you said with facts, something that you have yet to do. You base things off of possibilities.
I could easily create another post after this one and say the same thing. But i won't.

Keegs, come back with some actual facts instead of your assumptions. I have provided facts that I never manipulated. You on the other hand come to this with nothing and say that I am manipulating data. Prove to me and everyone else that I have done such a thing. You can't. Just like you can't come up with any better argument than "HE DROPPED TWO PASSES!!!" It's weak.

You have also ignored some of my points and then tell me that you didn't. If you haven't then why haven't you responded to Gaffney's drops during the season?

 

[PATSNUTme]

 

[Keegs]

Keegs, come back with some actual facts instead of your assumptions. I have provided facts that I never manipulated. You on the other hand come to this with nothing and say that I am manipulating data. Prove to me and everyone else that I have done such a thing. You can't. Just like you can't come up with any better argument than "HE DROPPED TWO PASSES!!!" It's weak.

You have also ignored some of my points and then tell me that you didn't. If you haven't then why haven't you responded to Gaffney's drops during the season?

I must have forgot to address Gaffney's drops during the regular season. Ok so he had some drops during the regular season. I never said Gaffney was the next Jerry Rice, my argument is that he's a better option than Reche Caldwell at receiver, especially in big games.

Reche Caldwell had 2 drops while wide open during the AFC Championship game. There is a big difference. You saying that Gaffney also dropped balls in the regular season proves nothing.

My argument isn't that Reche dropped 2 passes.

Reche's play declined significantly in the playoffs. He was ok during the regular season. In the playoffs he did not perform well.
As a matter of fact, jabar Gaffney had better games in each of the 3 playoff games. In the indy game, you kept insisting that Reche played better, but now you are ignoring it b/c you know it's a crock of b.s.
It's very simple..
basically, Reche's play declined as the season went on, with him playing horrible in the biggest game of our season.
Jabar GAffney's play improved as time passed and he played better than REche in all 3 playoff games.

Jabar Gaffney is the better option at receiver.

 

[RayClay]

Unusual surge for Caldwell considering everyone arguing must have voted long ago. Is there a paper trail?

 

[pats1]

[EDIT... I THOUGHT YOU WERE INSULTING ME... IM CHANGING MY RESPONSE.]
no but if you say a stupid thing TWICE, people start to get ideas.

either way this team does not need Reche on the field in a big game when we could have someone else playing receiver.

If Jabar was playing at the end of a big game instead of Reche, i'd feel a lot better.

What if you said two stupid things and one, bigger, intelligent thing?

Is there some mathematical formula out there to determine stupidity from that?

 

[zippo59]

I can't believe people get so fired up about this. They are two closely mtached recievers and I think both will make the team. Some people act like this some life or death issue or something.

 

[PATSNUTme]

Ok, what if you said a stupid thing, a smart thing, a dumb thing and a high intelligent thing all while standing one foot and touching your nose and pulling your shorts out of your butt?

 

[pats1]

Ok, what if you said a stupid thing, a smart thing, a dumb thing and a high intelligent thing all while standing one foot and touching your nose and pulling your shorts out of your butt?

Your stupidity percentage factor ("SPF") would be exactly 56.229.

Ask your doctor for an SPF-30 sunscreen or higher.

 

[BAM!]

are you kidding?

Your point is that Gaffney bailed out Caldwell.

Just take a step back and make sure you understand what you just typed.

I'm glad i caught this before you could edit it.

Nice, I like how you are TRYING to set me up as someone who spouts something then goes back and edits it to say something else. I have YET to see you prove ANYTHING and you won't be able to prove that either because I don't do it.

My point is that one of Caldwell's drops had no effect on the game because Gaffney scored. I am pointing out that what you are saying about Caldwell having 2 Game Changing drops is wrong. It supports your argument but is flat out wrong.

YOU are the manipulator of information Keegs, not I.

 

[zippo59]

Ok, what if you said a stupid thing, a smart thing, a dumb thing and a high intelligent thing all while standing one foot and touching your nose and pulling your shorts out of your butt?

My question is how did you shorts get in your butt?

 

[Keegs]

Unusual serge for Caldwell considering everyone arguing must have voted long ago. Is there a paper trail?

no kidding i was thinking the same thing.

The pro-Caldwell side is so outraged by the thought that Gaffney could take his place that they all already voted.

It's a little fishy, but then again the following is gaining momentum so who knows.

 

[RayClay]

no kidding i was thinking the same thing.

The pro-Caldwell side is so outraged by the thought that Gaffney could take his place that they all already voted.

It's a little fishy, but then again the following is gaining momentum so who knows.

Actually, Keegs I believe it could be explained by changing the poll to "Do you find Keegs annoying"?, with a vote for Caldwell = yes.

 

[PATSNUTme]

My question is how did you shorts get in your butt?

Just hypothetical!:singing:

 

[BAM!]

I must have forgot to address Gaffney's drops during the regular season. Ok so he had some drops during the regular season.

This is all I am saying, no one is perfect and it was unfortunate that Caldwell dropped those passes (believe me I was screaming at him through my TV) in the AFCCG. I just don't think he deserves the ridicule that he is getting because of that one game.

In the indy game, you kept insisting that Reche played better, but now you are ignoring it b/c you know it's a crock of b.s.

Show me where I am insisting that Reche played better, I'll wait...

 

[JackBauer]

ummm yeah it does actually.

The argument was that Caldwell is the choice over Gaffney because Caldwell faces better defenders.

But when Caldwell plays like dogcrap when wide open, this point means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

his play is erratic, and this team suffers because of it.

now please, come up with some thoughts of your own and quit jumping on every pro-caldwell argument, quoting it, and saying "yeah what he said"

You really need to go back and take Remedial Logic 101.

A sample size of two drops does NOTHING to refute his point. And in case you missed it, he raised SEVERAL points, and you only made a weak attempt at refuting the one in question.

I already did come up with "thoughts of my own" previously. This was before you (unfortunately) made your entrance into this thread, which (as a surprise to no one) prompted it to take a sharp turn for the worse. Of course, this is irrelevant, and if you could read, you would know I wasn't backing up his post but merely pointing out that you cannot argue your way out of a paper bag.

 

[Keegs]

What happened to Gaffney in that game? He had two 100+ yard games before this one in which Caldwell (4 for 46) had more receiving yards than Gaffney (3 for 37). I could point to this game and say that GAFFNEY CHOKED! Where was he for this game on the biggest of stages?

Knock off the crap. You are inferring that Gaffney's game wasn't as good as Caldwells in INDY and you know it.

You have the audacity to suggest that Gaffney choked when he made an incredible TD catch to bail Reche out. (which is ironic since you choose to use this as part of your argument )

Reche choked that game. It was the biggest game of his life.
Gaffney played great and stepped up when another receiver (Reche) failed miserably.

 

[pats1]

Knock off the crap. You are inferring that Gaffney's game wasn't as good as Caldwells in INDY and you know it.

You have the audacity to suggest that Gaffney choked when he made an incredible TD catch to bail Reche out. (which is ironic since you choose to use this as part of your argument )

Reche choked that game. It was the biggest game of his life.
Gaffney played great and stepped up when another receiver (Reche) failed miserably.

Honestly, Keegs. Step back. Look at what you're arguing and think about how much it matters.

Are we seriously arguing who played better in Indy like it means absolutely anything? I don't think Beioli will be looking back at those game tapes when they make roster decisions in August.

"Caldwell was better against Indy! He should get the roster spot his season!"

"No, Gaffney was better! HE should get the spot!"

It doesn't matter!

 

[Keegs]

You really need to go back and take Remedial Logic 101.

A sample size of two drops does NOTHING to refute his point. And in case you missed it, he raised SEVERAL points, and you only made a weak attempt at refuting the one in question.

I already did come up with "thoughts of my own" previously. This was before you (unfortunately) made your entrance into this thread, which (as a surprise to no one) prompted it to take a sharp turn for the worse. Of course, this is irrelevant, and if you could read, you would know I wasn't backing up his post but merely pointing out that you cannot argue your way out of a paper bag.

it's very simple. The argument was that Reche faces better defenders than Jabar.

But when wide open with no defenders around him Reche dropped 2 easy balls in the AFC championship game.

It doesn't matter who is defending him when during the regular season.
The fact remains:
Reche Caldwell is erratic and unreliable

especially in big games.

And nothing you say will change that.

(i love how you jump on this guy's back now and try to take his side, like you have so many times already in this thread... you lose...yet again.)