The "Brady did a little bit wrong" crowd

[Bobsyouruncle]

People inherently want the middle ground. And they don't like to admit they were wrong. The NFL's actions are becoming indefensible so they say maybe "something" happenned.

Balls were deflated, or they weren't. There's no middle ground.

It's BS top to bottom, and it isn't hard to figure out. There's some real mysteries in life but this isn't one of them. The believers are cry babies and sore losers. For all the middle grounders, I'll compromise on them being half-crybabies.

 

[Fencer]

Balls were deflated, or they weren't. There's no middle ground.

Actually, there's a sliver of middle ground.

Suppose, for example, that the Patriots delivered footballs that were at the lowest pressure limit, but which were ABOVE room temperature inside. Then they would have been sneakily evading the rules without actually breaking them.

I'm not saying that happened. In fact, it MIGHT have been ruled out by various experiments and analyses, scattershot though those all were; I haven't tried determine whether it has. But at least in theory, there is that sliver, so I'm inclined to be a bit lenient to the have-it-both-ways crowd.

 

[Joker]

Occam's Razor.....

 

[Fencer]

Occam's Razor.....

Cuts both ways.

There WAS evasion on the parts of various Pats folks, which can be explained in at least four ways:

1. They were guilty of the accusations.
2. They were guilty of something else.
3. They weren't sure whether they were guilty, and were covering up.
4. They thought it would be helpful to be evasive, even though they were innocent.

#1 is hard to reconcile with the evidence.
If it was #4, they were very very incorrect.
That still leaves #2, #3 or the boneheaded version of #4.

I go with a hybrid of #3 on the part of Brady (fueled by the NFL's lies about its findings) and #4 on the part of multiple folks (Brady and McNally, for starters).

But if somebody instead goes with #2, I find it hard to call them an idiot just for that.

 

[RelocatedPatFan]

Suppose, for example, that the Patriots delivered footballs that were at the lowest pressure limit, but which were ABOVE room temperature inside. Then they would have been sneakily evading the rules without actually breaking them.

Actually, I think what is forgotten here is that the Refs are to make sure the balls are between 12.5 and 13.5 before the start of the game. Aaron Rodgers can deliver 14.5 PSI balls to the refs and it's actually ok.

It should be the refs job to make sure those balls are in compliance. Or am I missing something with the rule? the tampering would have to occur after the fact, which is why the bathroom trip is such a big deal.

Now, if QBs want the football prepared to a certain point, why would Brady alter that for a single game or half the games (devils advocate point of having "their" guy doing something) as they wouldn't have the ability to touch footballs during away games. There might be some gamesmanship with the rubbing, but I would say it's not against the rules (even if the effect was known as the rules don't talk about a maintained PSI level throughout games -- sans tampering).

On the contrary, we have evidence of a game (Jets @ Patriots) where the balls weren't properly set by the refs. Or, is that the real real McNally was fired, because he didn't do his job and was let go afterwards...

And BB was quite clear that they aren't going into grey areas of the rules. They are following all rules.

 

[Joker]

or...there was NO intentional deflation by ANYBODY and S-C-I-E-N-C-E explains it...Occam's Razor

 

[NashuaPats]

I think the "Brady did a little bit wrong" crowd are people who

1. Passed judgment against Brady before learning all the facts and don't want to admit they were wrong.
2. Have not followed the case too closely.
3. Want to give their opinion on the subject, but are too lazy to read the whole Wells report and/or too lazy to try to understand the science.
4. Just want to appear to be "fair minded".
5. Are intellectually dishonest because they have a rooting interest against the Patriots, but understand the story is b.s.

I can tolerate it from people who are asked their opinion and don't give two ****es about the story.
I cannot tolerate it from people who go around spreading their opinion on the story.
I cannot tolerate it from sports writers whose job it is to write about it.

Either Brady instructed the balls boys to tamper with the footballs or he did not.
In my opinion, the evidence is overwhelmingly in favor that he did not. There is no indication that he prefers balls to be underinflated. There is no evidence that he told the boys to underinflate them. There is evidence that he instructed them to be 12.5 and to provide a copy of the rules to the refs. There is no evidence the balls were even underinflated. The strongest evidence is that there was no legitimate reason to believe they were underinflated in the first place and everything since is circumstantial evidence drummed up by people who have repeatedly lied about it.

 

[PatriotsReign]

One school of thought at this point can be summarized as:

• The NFL's actions were ridiculous from beginning to end.
• However, Brady's probably guilty of SOMETHING minor.

That's not necessarily crazy, since a certain level of cheating is endemic in football and other sports.

• Like other sports with concepts of fouls and penalties from contact during continuous play, football has a strong element of "Get away with whatever you can".
• In football, teams engage in injury-report shenanigans all the time. The Patriots are among the ringleaders.
• Football and many other sports have long legacies of PED violations.
• In sports where equipment violations are helpful, there commonly are long histories of equipment violations. For extreme example, consider NASCAR and Americas Cup yachting, which not coincidentally are among the sports with the most complex equipment overall. Football has such a history.
• When the rules are vague and poorly enforced, it's natural to try to push their boundaries.

If Brady's first PSIgate-related interview is to be taken a face value, he was saying "We may have pushed the envelope, but I don't think we broke the rules. Certainly I didn't think I was pushing for a rules violation. I hope I'm right in my beliefs." My personal theory is to take that exactly as face value.

But people who think Brady is a LITTLE BIT dirtier than that aren't necessarily being idiots. So I think it's OK to take note of people who have views approximately along these lines.

For starters, Steve Buckley is now in that camp, and whatever negative things I thought about his previous views, his current ones don't make me want to vomit, although I don't like that he still assumes the footballs were illicitly deflated.

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/...ey_obsessed_nfl_bigger_culprit_than_tom_brady

Here's the fact I keep telling anyone that thinks Brady did "something" wrong.....

There is no proof the footballs violated the minimum psi rule. Until we have conclusive proof, no one can say or even speculate he did "something" wrong...even a little bit

 

[PatriotsReign]

People who are curious about what actually happened.
People who want to understand why some of the good guys sound a bit evasive.
People who like using their brains.

I.e., people unlike yourself.

Until there is definitive proof the Patriots footballs violated the rules, "people who like to use their brains" wouldn't be curious about anything but how the NFL framed Brady.

This isn't even debatable.....first there has to be a proven violation....and THEN people can speculate. Without proof, speculation is idiotic.

 

[Wax Frog]

Occam's Razor.....

I've always been keenly suspicious of Occam's shaving cream...

 

[DarrylS]

I do not see any semblance of guilt when there is no recorded baseline for the PSI of footballs prior to the game, and at half time not all of the Colts balls were tested.. those that were showed a decline in PSI..

IMO any evidence is inconclusive... the whole bull crap about not having enough time is BS, as allegedly McNally took 1:40 to allegedly do his deed..

 

[h0c2000]

I go with a hybrid of #3 on the part of Brady (fueled by the NFL's lies about its findings) and #4 on the part of multiple folks (Brady and McNally, for starters).

Can you provide specifics of covering up and evasiveness on the part of Brady and/or the other Patriot's employees?

Just so you know, I'm in the same camp as Goodell in that one's personal electronic devices and the communications therein are not in the realm of the NFL's jurisdiction, re: Mueller investigation.

 

[RayClay]

As a lapsed Catholic, I think the concept of original sin is what applies here. We are brought to this earth already guilty of something because we are related to Adam who committed the first sin.

There's no way around it, some air escaped from some balls somewhere and someone must bear the guilt and sacrifice his season, reputation and practices so that we can all be cleansed.

Of course, after three days lost to settlement hearings, he'll be back and his wrath will be mighty.

 

[RayClay]

Wasnt buckley last week ready to call brady guilty as charged ? Now everyone says they dont believe anyone ? This is another way of saying "I was stupid to think that way but I wont admit , instead I will accuse both of them for framing me to think that way"

Buckley is a piler onner. He hasn't had an original thought in his life. He checks to see what everyone else is having before he orders lunch, sees which way the wind is blowing before he writes a thing.

 

[PatriotsReign]

As a lapsed Catholic, I think the concept of original sin is what applies here. We are brought to this earth already guilty of something because we are related to Adam who committed the first sin.

There's no way around it, some air escaped from some balls somewhere and someone must bear the guilt and sacrifice his season, reputation and practices so that we can all be cleansed.

Of course, after three days lost to settlement hearings, he'll be back and his wrath will be mighty.

I know you meant to post "his wrath will be ALMIGHTY"!!

 

[ANGR89]

One thing that's really annoying is it being reported the "history of cheating " I've even heard it said several times this is Bradys 2nd offense is why he was punished so harshly....their referring to spygate....even though I don't agree with either, still where do they get Brady had something to do with spygate?

 

[Bill Lee]

Until there is definitive proof the Patriots footballs violated the rules, "people who like to use their brains" wouldn't be curious about anything but how the NFL framed Brady.

I agree. If everyone was able to punish everyone else due to SUSPICIONS it'd be an ugly world, and that's exactly what the NFL is doing. You - you look suspicious to me - I'm taking away four weeks of your pay!

Why others are ok with the NFL going nuts over what is just a SUSPICION is beyond me. If that's the standard to be applied then the league's in-box is going to be overflowing with all kinds of accusations.

 

[archstanton543]

One thing that's really annoying is it being reported the "history of cheating " I've even heard it said several times this is Bradys 2nd offense is why he was punished so harshly....their referring to spygate....even though I don't agree with either, still where do they get Brady had something to do with spygate?

And players get a clean slate with the League if they don't get in trouble after a after a certain amount of time has past. Let's say for the sake of argument Brady did have something to do with Spygate. That happened 8 years ago.

I wonder if in 2023, when Bob, Bill and Brady are likely gone, and the new regime does something to displease the League will they still be seen as "repeat offenders" even though both "scandals" happened a long time ago?

 

[Fencer]

Can you provide specifics of covering up and evasiveness on the part of Brady and/or the other Patriot's employees?

Just so you know, I'm in the same camp as Goodell in that one's personal electronic devices and the communications therein are not in the realm of the NFL's jurisdiction, re: Mueller investigation.

• The claim that "Deflator" had nothing to do w/ deflation, and that "going to ESPN" had nothing to do w/ cheating. I suspect they were actually joking references to exactly what they superficially sound like serious references to.
• Brady's lack of recollection about PSI-related conversations and/or conversations w/ Jastremski in general when they actually happened.
• The various and contradictory stories offered about Brady's exercise of his unquestionable right to change cell phones.

 

[Tony2046]

no offense, but this is absolutely ****ing ******ed



WTF WAS GOING ON?

Fencer is not saying that. He is simply repeating the new tones we are hearing in the headlines which is welcoming. I agree with that.

Think about what we had to listen to before: Brady cheated, Brady is arrogant, Brady knew, 2 psi, blah blah

Now we are beginning to hear: Brady may have cheated but the NFL is slamming him at historic levels for jaywalking.

Personally I admit that I am not the sharpest tool in the shed but I've spent an embarrassingly amount of time trying to figure out what happened. The average non-Pat fan will not do that. I started by taking Brady at his word. The average non-Pat fan will do that either. The average non-Pat fan listens to headlines, reads twitter bullet comments and focuses on regular football issues related to their team. Hearing these new tones with anti-NFL sentiments is a nice new development.