Patriots interested in center De La Puente?

[zipster9]

Wilfork for Mack and Taylor?

The Patriots need to upgrade at CE. Wendell is a depth player thrust into the role of starter. It's so damn important when you consider who the Patriots need to beat to hoist #4.

Mack + 4th rounder, for Wilfork

 

[Brady6]

Mack + 4th rounder, for Wilfork

That's not enough we would want Jordan Cameron as well.

Seriously though I would send #29 and #93 to the Browns for Jordan Cameron and the rights to sign Mack.

 

[ausbacker]

That's not enough we would want Jordan Cameron as well.

Seriously though I would send #29 and #93 to the Browns for Jordan Cameron and the rights to sign Mack.

I'd be inclined to go full ****** and offer Cleveland all of the Patriots 2014 draft picks for Josh Gordon, Alex Mack and Phil Taylor just to see what they would do.

I realise I'm playing funny buggers (especially given the fact that it'll screw the cap without a year of rookie deals rolling into the next 4) but it would be interesting to see what the response would be.

 

[Miguel]

It was a significant drop off from Mack to #2. On the subject of Mack, Mike Florio had an interesting take on his situation with the Browns.


Alex Mack still getting no interest | ProFootballTalk

What Florio does not say and perhaps he should have is that Mack's new team would be agreeing to keeping on the 2014 cap at the 10 million salary.

The CBA says "The player and the New Club may not renegotiate such Player Contract to reduce the Salary in such contract until after the end of the first regular season covered by the Contract. Neither the player nor the New Club may exercise an option in such Player Contract that reduces Salary in the first League Year of such contract until after the end of the first regular
season covered by the Contract."

Florio claims "The offer sheet also could consist of a one-year deal with a commitment to not use the franchise or transition tag in 2015. This would ensure that Mack hits the open market next year."

Yet the CBA says "any provision in an Offer Sheet to such player waiving or limiting the New Club's ability to designate the player as a Franchise Player or Transition Player in the future shall not be a Principal Term, and therefore need not be included in a contract formed with the Prior Club as a result of matching such Offer Sheet (but shall be included in a contract formed with the New Club as a result of the Prior Club not matching such an Offer Sheet).

 

[Brady6]

What Florio does not say and perhaps he should have is that Mack's new team would be agreeing to keeping on the 2014 cap at the 10 million salary.

The CBA says "The player and the New Club may not renegotiate such Player Contract to reduce the Salary in such contract until after the end of the first regular season covered by the Contract. Neither the player nor the New Club may exercise an option in such Player Contract that reduces Salary in the first League Year of such contract until after the end of the first regular
season covered by the Contract."

Florio claims "The offer sheet also could consist of a one-year deal with a commitment to not use the franchise or transition tag in 2015. This would ensure that Mack hits the open market next year."

Yet the CBA says "any provision in an Offer Sheet to such player waiving or limiting the New Club's ability to designate the player as a Franchise Player or Transition Player in the future shall not be a Principal Term, and therefore need not be included in a contract formed with the Prior Club as a result of matching such Offer Sheet (but shall be included in a contract formed with the New Club as a result of the Prior Club not matching such an Offer Sheet).

Thank you for the information, I was not aware of any of that.

As I said about Mack in another forum if the Browns are unable to sign him long term they maybe best suited to let him leave now. Next season Jordan Cameron and Joe Haden are UFAs, they will likely want to use their tag options to retain one of them, so if they kept Mack it on the transition tag it would be a one-year rental. The Browns are a rebuilding franchise and are likely to draft a QB early, does it make sense for them to tie $10M up in a player that they will be losing in a year, or would they be best off moving on now and accepting the compensatory pick that they will get like get (third or fourth rounder I would guess).

 

[LiamUK]

I think De La Puente would be a great signing, and I reckon although there's fair competition, we could get him rather cheap, maybe $3-5m a year and if we could tie him down for 4 years, I think we will have done well...

He's a definite improvement over Wendell.

 

[Miguel]

Thank you for the information, I was not aware of any of that.

As I said about Mack in another forum if the Browns are unable to sign him long term they maybe best suited to let him leave now. Next season Jordan Cameron and Joe Haden are UFAs, they will likely want to use their tag options to retain one of them, so if they kept Mack it on the transition tag it would be a one-year rental. The Browns are a rebuilding franchise and are likely to draft a QB early, does it make sense for them to tie $10M up in a player that they will be losing in a year, or would they be best off moving on now and accepting the compensatory pick that they will get like get (third or fourth rounder I would guess).

Since the Browns have signed 5 UFAs and lost 3 this offseason, they are not going to get a comp pick for him if he goes to another team. The Browns are the team that can give Mack long-term security. What long-term security does Florio's proposal give Mack?

 

[Brady6]

Since the Browns have signed 5 UFAs and lost 3 this offseason, they are not going to get a comp pick for him if he goes to another team. The Browns are the team that can give Mack long-term security. What long-term security does Florio's proposal give Mack?

I am not saying Florio idea made sense, what I am saying is that if he is not going to sign a long-term deal does it make sense for the Browns to retain him for 2014 on the tag tender when the likelihood is that he will walk after the season. If they were making a run at something I would say absolutely but considering they appear to be in rebuilding mode it may be smarter to start fresh. I am not sure; I am just looking at potential possibilities.

 

[Miguel]

I am not saying Florio idea made sense, what I am saying is that if he is not going to sign a long-term deal does it make sense for the Browns to retain him for 2014 on the tag tender when the likelihood is that he will walk after the season. If they were making a run at something I would say absolutely but considering they appear to be in rebuilding mode it may be smarter to start fresh. I am not sure; I am just looking at potential possibilities.

To me, it make more sense to build around Mack than to lose him.

 

[Brady6]

To me, it make more sense to build around Mack than to lose him.

Absolutely but what if that is not an option? His agent does not appear to be interested in signing the tender anytime soon, so they need to come up with a long-term contract.

Cleveland Browns' Alex Mack's agent: 'He's in no hurry to sign the transition' | cleveland.com

 

[Brady6]

I think De La Puente would be a great signing, and I reckon although there's fair competition, we could get him rather cheap, maybe $3-5m a year and if we could tie him down for 4 years, I think we will have done well...

He's a definite improvement over Wendell.

I am not so sure that is true, Wendell is a much better run blocker, and they both struggle with stronger DTs due to a lack of size and strength. De La Puente plays with Grubbs at LG and Evans at RG, who are two of the premier OGs in the NFL, most times he is either pulling in the run/screen game or helping one of those guards with a double team. I think he would be a poor signing and end up being the same type of player that Wendell was.

 

[LiamUK]

I am not so sure that is true, Wendell is a much better run blocker, and they both struggle with stronger DTs due to a lack of size and strength. De La Puente plays with Grubbs at LG and Evans at RG, who are two of the premier OGs in the NFL, most times he is either pulling in the run/screen game or helping one of those guards with a double team. I think he would be a poor signing and end up being the same type of player that Wendell was.

Sure, he played with Grubbs & Evans and he is a smaller breed of O-Lineman, but I really think Wendell was a weak center and like I said I think we can get him cheap.

I think our Tackles are great and Mankins is great but Connolly and Wendell were weak, whats the harm taking a chance on Brian? We've got Cannon to replace Connolly, so get De La Puente to replace Wendell. Sometimes new is better.

 

[50-yard-line]

I am not so sure that is true, Wendell is a much better run blocker, and they both struggle with stronger DTs due to a lack of size and strength. De La Puente plays with Grubbs at LG and Evans at RG, who are two of the premier OGs in the NFL, most times he is either pulling in the run/screen game or helping one of those guards with a double team. I think he would be a poor signing and end up being the same type of player that Wendell was.

This is why I'm hoping they go bigger for a C in the draft. Swanson is 6'5" and 312.

Has Dan Koppen given any hints that he might return to football? I know he moved back to RI after losing last year to injury.

 

[Brady6]

Sure, he played with Grubbs & Evans and he is a smaller breed of O-Lineman, but I really think Wendell was a weak center and like I said I think we can get him cheap.

I think our Tackles are great and Mankins is great but Connolly and Wendell were weak, whats the harm taking a chance on Brian? We've got Cannon to replace Connolly, so get De La Puente to replace Wendell. Sometimes new is better.

De La Puente is the same type of player with the same strength issues. The DTs will push him around the same way they did Wendell.

 

[Brady6]

This is why I'm hoping they go bigger for a C in the draft. Swanson is 6'5" and 312.

Has Dan Koppen given any hints that he might return to football? I know he moved back to RI after losing last year to injury.

I like all four of the top centers –

- Marcus Martin
- Weston Richburg
- Travis Swanson
- Bryan Stork

I think they will all be better NFL players than De La Puente will in time.

I think Koppen is done, he was unable to beat out Wendell two seasons ago so it seems highly unlikely he could at age 34 soon to be 35. I we were looking for an OC to bridge the gap for a year I would sign Jonathan Goodwin who played very well last season for the 49ers.

 

[Huckleberry1]

The problem at center is the same as it is at WR, they have to be able to read defenses and see the game the same way Brady does and be able to make adjustments and be on the same page as him at all times. They essentially Qb the offensive line so any center they bring in or draft has to have those qualities to be successful in New England. We can look at the physical attributes of the free agent centers and draft prospects at the position all we want but they are looking at the mental capabilities of every candidate just as closely as the physical attributes. I am all for Richburg or Swanson et al...if they meet that criteria but honestly have no idea who does or doesn't clear that bar.

 

[Big-T]

If people think De La Puente is too small (6'2" 306lbs) then surely Stork is too small too (6'4" 300lbs)?

It might be PFF but De La Puente rated much better than Wendell using the grading system they have:

BDLP: +6.1
RW: -17.1

Even Dietrich-Smith who people liked had a rating of +14.2 second only in the free agent Center rankings to Alex Mack +17.8. So using PFF (yeah...) there was a huge drop off from the top 2 Centers in free agency but De La Puente is a huge upgrade over Wendell.

Marcus Martin (6'3" 320lbs) & Travis Swanson (6'5" 312lbs - is he too tall to play C?) would be my 2 choices from the draft, Weston Richburg is sub 300 and I'd like to see the days of a sub 300lbs Center over in New England.

 

[patfanken]

If people think De La Puente is too small (6'2" 306lbs) then surely Stork is too small too (6'4" 300lbs)?

It might be PFF but De La Puente rated much better than Wendell using the grading system they have:

BDLP: +6.1
RW: -17.1

Even Dietrich-Smith who people liked had a rating of +14.2 second only in the free agent Center rankings to Alex Mack +17.8. So using PFF (yeah...) there was a huge drop off from the top 2 Centers in free agency but De La Puente is a huge upgrade over Wendell.

Marcus Martin (6'3" 320lbs) & Travis Swanson (6'5" 312lbs - is he too tall to play C?) would be my 2 choices from the draft, Weston Richburg is sub 300 and I'd like to see the days of a sub 300lbs Center over in New England.

Thank god that PFF isn't making the evaluation judgements for the NE Patriots....or you either. Trading a C whose main weakness is perceived to be being weak against a bull rush, for a C whose main weakness is that he's weak against the bull rush and not as good against the run is pure insanity.

But that kind of thinking would be consistent to those amongst us who believe that ANYONE from another team is better than what we have. If BDLP is such an "upgrade", why is he on the market? If Wendell is so poor, why did all these same ranking gurus have him so high just one season ago.

The fact is that its nearly impossible to correctly grade a player without knowing the responsibilities assigned on each play. They can't know the line calls that change the responsibilities, nor the sight changes that change responsibilities after the snap, much like WRs have to make Only the team knows that. Maybe it was the poor play of the G's that made the middle an occasional weak spot. I don't know....and more importantly, neither do all of you.

Once again we have all gone down the path of "OOH, look mom, it's a shiny new toy, and I HAVE to have it". Hard to believe this team wins 5 games a year let alone 11.

 

[BradyManny]

Once again we have all gone down the path of "look mom, it's a shiny new toy, and I HAVE to have it". Or as others seem to think, "everyone on another team is better than what we have." Hard to believe this team wins 5 games a year let alone 11.

I don't think that's what's happening here, Ken. This is different - and more justified. Ryan Wendell is not that good, and maybe he's fine for the regular season against weaker competition, but I do not feel comfortable going into January and February with him.

I don't know the first thing about De La Puente, but after Wendell got his rear completely handed to him in the AFCCG, I can't look at him as anything other than depth, and have to be open for replacements.

Frankly, I thought Connolly's play at C was much stronger, we re-signed him to play the position, injuries forced him to G, it's time to move him back. He's a little bigger, and a little better. But, then we have to worry about guard, so either way, interior line is a position where we are going to have to add personnel that was not on our 53 last year, and it isn't about shiny toys. It's about beefing up the front so we don't get smoked by a decent DL, a problem that has ruined several winters for Patsfans.

 

[Huckleberry1]

If people think De La Puente is too small (6'2" 306lbs) then surely Stork is too small too (6'4" 300lbs)?

It might be PFF but De La Puente rated much better than Wendell using the grading system they have:

BDLP: +6.1
RW: -17.1

Even Dietrich-Smith who people liked had a rating of +14.2 second only in the free agent Center rankings to Alex Mack +17.8. So using PFF (yeah...) there was a huge drop off from the top 2 Centers in free agency but De La Puente is a huge upgrade over Wendell.

Marcus Martin (6'3" 320lbs) & Travis Swanson (6'5" 312lbs - is he too tall to play C?) would be my 2 choices from the draft, Weston Richburg is sub 300 and I'd like to see the days of a sub 300lbs Center over in New England.

So, Biff and Johnny had 14.3 grades on Wendell before the beer bong and Tom and Stevie and Binker had 18.3 grades on him. I guess i will have to wait for Scooter and Tedster to weigh in.