Vince Wilfork asks to be released

[Danger Zone]

...They get into trouble when they think they can go into business and use their own cash.

As we clearly saw in the case of Aaron Hernandez.. :cool2:

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Vince has either one choice or 3. If he's not healthy, it's retire.
Assuming he's on way to recovery at an NFL level he either restructures with the Pats and plays 2-4 more years making nice 8 figures total. Or he finds someone else willing to ink at deal that may make him a few million more. It's all his personal value judgement relative to pride, staying in NE (if he cares about that), financial considerations on the last couple mill whatever,

 

[NormZauchin]

If that is your argument, then any professional athlete who has been playing for more than 7 years should not worry about income because they are not "starving." It is not about eating. It is about securing your future and children's future...and perhaps even THEIR children. Family business's function this way...and the Wilforks may not have another 'baby Vince' coming up to earn tens of millions - this is all they will get (much less after taxes).
They have every right to move and do what is best for them (they have my respect for that).
He played above his rookie contract and "earned" this extension. He CARRIED the D-line for several seasons, making huge plays even when he was simply being asked to fill gaps. It is likely he only has 2-3 good years left in him and I don't disagree with him trying to secure his family's future to the best of his limited ability. I will miss the big guy.

If you want to be a bleeding heart, there are about 4 billion people on this planet who are more deserving of your sympathies than an athlete who has made more than 32 million dollars.

 

[zipster9]

Vince has either one choice or 3. If he's not healthy, it's retire.
Assuming he's on way to recovery at an NFL level he either restructures with the Pats and plays 2-4 more years making nice 8 figures total. Or he finds someone else willing to ink at deal that may make him a few million more. It's all his personal value judgement relative to pride, staying in NE (if he cares about that), financial considerations on the last couple mill whatever,

Wilfork will not budge on re-structure/pay-cut.

My guess is Patriots will release him, but at a later date...

 

[IllegalContact]

Well.......I love the guy and he's been one of my favorites ......

That said, I guess we don't have to put him in the same mold as Troy brown, tedy bruschi and Tom Brady in terms of leavin some money on the table for a better team.

I sour on people like this very quickly given the pats spend over the cap every year. What are they supposed to do, start sucking so that Bianca can count more money?

At this point, I'd say 'screw you, we will release you when it is to our best advantage'

The last thing I would do is let him get out there and go through OTAs with his new team.......wait at least until after the draft

Whatever irritated his bowels may have passed by then

 

[BradyFTW!]

I do remember and he fought tooth-and-nail to get his contract. If he's asking for his release because he thinks he's worth more than his current salary then I can understand.

If he wants out to go sign a lesser deal elsewhere, that's kind of biting off your nose to spite your face but so be it. If the FO told him restructure or your cut (which could be the case) then he should have just let them do that and spoke his peace after the fact. Public perception now looks like "I'm so insulted you even proposed this so I quit." , when the team was going to release him regardless.

I'm just saying he should have asked for a trade knowing it was unlikely and let the FO wear the black hat and release him. Either that or just retire and pull a Brett Favre in June. Some things are better left unsaid (to the media). I honestly wish him the best (unless he goes to the Jets).

I don't see any point in making it personal or assigning blame. Wilfork has done nothing wrong here. He signed a deal, he's willing to play that deal out, and he's not willing to make concessions on a deal that he had to play at an elite level and be underpaid for 6 years to get. Can you blame him for that?

Likewise, the Pats are pretty sure that his play this year won't be worth his $7.5M base salary, so they'd rather cut him than keep him at his current deal. They're almost certainly correct in their evaluation of what he'll bring to the table.

It's a crap situation, because I think everyone involved would have preferred that Wilfork remain healthy and playing at a level that would justify his salary this year, but that's not how it worked out. As it is, both Wilfork and the Pats are coming from defensible positions. Neither one of them is wrong. The Pats know he won't be worth his contract, and whatever they offered him in an extension is probably less than he believes he can get on the open market (and I'd bet that he's right). It is what it is.

And no, I don't for a second believe that this has anything to do with the Revis contract. The writing has been on the wall for months, and a ton of us here called something like this happening months ago.

 

[mgteich]

I think that the patriots made a reasonable decision asking Wilfork to sign for less.
I think that Wilfork made a reasonable decision when saying no.

IMHO, Wilfork will be much more valuable a football player in a 2-4 months or he will retire. He can look at his options when he has rehabbed. Of course, they will include location and lots of other factors.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Well.......I love the guy and he's been one of my favorites ......

That said, I guess we don't have to put him in the same mold as Troy brown, tedy bruschi and Tom Brady in terms of leavin some money on the table for a better team.

I sour on people like this very quickly given the pats spend over the cap every year. What are they supposed to do, start sucking so that Bianca can count more money?

At this point, I'd say 'screw you, we will release you when it is to our best advantage'

The last thing I would do is let him get out there and go through OTAs with his new team.......wait at least until after the draft

Whatever irritated his bowels may have passed by then

What's the point of playing hardball? All you'll be doing is showing the rest of the locker room how little respect you have for your captains and veterans, at a time when you're potentially trying to sign guys like Solder, McCourty, and Jones to long term deals. Better to treat him with the respect that he deserves and honor his request for a release, IMO.

As far as I'm concerned, he basically did the Pats a favor. Now they can cut him without giving ammo to the people who claim that they're disloyal *******s.

 

[NormZauchin]

I don't see any point in making it personal or assigning blame. Wilfork has done nothing wrong here. He signed a deal, he's willing to play that deal out, and he's not willing to make concessions on a deal that he had to play at an elite level and be underpaid for 6 years to get. Can you blame him for that?

Likewise, the Pats are pretty sure that his play this year won't be worth his $7.5M base salary, so they'd rather cut him than keep him at his current deal. They're almost certainly correct in their evaluation of what he'll bring to the table.

It's a crap situation, because I think everyone involved would have preferred that Wilfork remain healthy and playing at a level that would justify his salary this year, but that's not how it worked out. As it is, both Wilfork and the Pats are coming from defensible positions. Neither one of them is wrong. The Pats know he won't be worth his contract, and whatever they offered him in an extension is probably less than he believes he can get on the open market (and I'd bet that he's right). It is what it is.

And no, I don't for a second believe that this has anything to do with the Revis contract. The writing has been on the wall for months, and a ton of us here called something like this happening months ago.

So what's your over/under on Wilfork's contract with a new team?

 

[IllegalContact]

What's the point of playing hardball? All you'll be doing is showing the rest of the locker room how little respect you have for your captains and veterans, at a time when you're potentially trying to sign guys like Solder, McCourty, and Jones to long term deals. Better to treat him with the respect that he deserves and honor his request for a release, IMO.

As far as I'm concerned, he basically did the Pats a favor. Now they can cut him without giving ammo to the people who claim that they're disloyal *******s.

I see your point......let me rephrase......the pats should honor the request when it best serves them. Right now, it serves no purpose to cut him unless they need the cap space.

The moment he asks to be released, he's no captain or anything else......that's the way it is......if he refuses to negotiate, he ill likely be cut anyway, so why turn it into a drama......everyone talks about how it's a business, so leave the emotion out of it.....

 

[mgteich]

To be clear, you would want Wilfork to rehab at the patriots cost and participate in our OTA's.
You would then cut him in July. And if Wilfork were injured while still a patriot, the team would be out lots of money.

No, the best thing is for the team to cut Wilfork within a week, with appropriate thank you for your service press conferences.

Well.......I love the guy and he's been one of my favorites ......

That said, I guess we don't have to put him in the same mold as Troy brown, tedy bruschi and Tom Brady in terms of leavin some money on the table for a better team.

I sour on people like this very quickly given the pats spend over the cap every year. What are they supposed to do, start sucking so that Bianca can count more money?

At this point, I'd say 'screw you, we will release you when it is to our best advantage'

The last thing I would do is let him get out there and go through OTAs with his new team.......wait at least until after the draft

Whatever irritated his bowels may have passed by then

 

[BradyFTW!]

I see your point......let me rephrase......the pats should honor the request when it best serves them. Right now, it serves no purpose to cut him unless they need the cap space.

The moment he asks to be released, he's no captain or anything else......that's the way it is......if he refuses to negotiate, he ill likely be cut anyway, so why turn it into a drama......everyone talks about how it's a business, so leave the emotion out of it.....

True, but asking to be released now, while teams still cap space to spend on FAs, is part of the business decision for Wilfork. Waiting until after most of the FA period is over to cut Wilfork wouldn't be honoring his request. Cutting him in a timely fashion is part of the request, and it's an accommodation that the Pats have made before for veterans who contributed far less to the organization than Vince has.

 

[patfanken]

Borgy. Mitt Romney earned 10's of millions in 2012 and he paid 14% of it in Federal taxes. Do you really think that any of these guys who have made 20-40MM during their athletic careers are paying 50% on their income. Making that kind of money comes with a different set of rules than you or I. I'm retired, on SS, plus consulting jobs I do on the side. I paid 24% in federal taxes this year. Its probably around what most people paid. But I'm willing to bet that most people who made in excess of $5MM paid a lot more in dollars, but considerably LESS in percentage.

If the legal code is the most important thing that needs to be revamped and modernized before we drown in lawyers, the IRS code should be next. It may be "progressive" but its still not FAIR. I find it ironic that in 1960 the tax on the rich was up to 90%. Over the last 50 years that has shrunk to less than 40% for the rich that are stupid. Those like Romney who are smart, pay as little as 14%

If Vince is as smart as we think, he has never paid 50% EVER. I love Vince, but the fact is he has been paid very well for being as good as he's been. He's one of the few big money players who has been worth the money the team has spent. HOWEVER, if what they are saying is true and he's pissed that the Pats don't want to carry an $11MM cap charge for a player we don't even know is going to be ready to play; F him.

He certainly didn't give back any money last season when he wasn't very effective in the 4 games he played. Vince played his heart out for the Pats and I appreciate that, but he was paid very very VERY well for the effort AND production. Why should the Pats continue to pay him when he's unable to produce.

OOP's I'm ranting

 

[PATS16N0]

To be clear, you would want Wilfork to rehab at the patriots cost and participate in our OTA's.
You would then cut him in July. And if Wilfork were injured while still a patriot, the team would be out lots of money.

No, the best thing is for the team to cut Wilfork within a week, with appropriate thank you for your service press conferences.

Within a week... maybe. If we don't immediately need the cap space for someone else, there's no sense in cutting him immediately upon his own request so he can get signed by a competitor who may spend too much money to sign him in the next few days. If he wants to play hardball, this is hardball.

He'll get cut when the organization wants to cut him.

 

[kennyb]

If he thinks he can make more than what the Pats are offering then good luck to him. I'm just glad they're not stupid enough to guarantee the 8m. He gets hurt in training camp with that salary I think he goes on ir with it. They can't take that risk. Or the risk he simply isn't good enough anymore.

 

[BradyFTW!]

So what's your over/under on Wilfork's contract with a new team?

A whole lot less than he was scheduled to get from the Patriots. Here's the comparables so far:

Linval Joseph: 5 years, $31.5M
Arthur Jones: 5 years, $33M
Randy Starks: 2 years, $10M
Tyson Jackson: 5 years, $25M
Paul Soliai 5 years, $32M
Jason Hatcher: don't think the numbers have been released yet

It seems like the best DTs in this FA class are getting a bit north of $6M AAV, and even the okay guys are getting $5M. If he was healthy, I think Wilfork could easily get a 4 year deal at $25M or so. Since he's not, the guaranteed money probably just won't be available to him. My guess would be that someone ends up paying him $4M per year on a 1-2 year deal. If he recovers, you just got a player who's much better than Ty Jackson for cheaper and on shorter money. A one-year prove it deal might be in his best interest, too, if he's willing to bet on himself. If he comes back this year and shows that he's something close to prime Vince, he'll probably be able to get $6M AAV on a 3-4 year deal next offseason, maybe more if he ends up being the beneficiary of some team throwing around stupid money on day 1 of FA.

 

[BradyFTW!]

If he thinks he can make more than what the Pats are offering then good luck to him. I'm just glad they're not stupid enough to guarantee the 8m. He gets hurt in training camp with that salary I think he goes on ir with it. They can't take that risk. Or the risk he simply isn't good enough anymore.

Important point to remember: we have no idea what the Pats were offering. They could have been basically saying "we want to extend you out into a multiyear deal, convert this season's $7.5M into a signing bonus, and then pay you (nonguaranteed) salaries of 1-2M for each year after that."

If they offered something like that, then the only incentive that he has to sign it is that his $7.5M gets paid out. He presumably would then ask what happens if he doesn't agree, they'd respond that he gets cut, hence him saying "well I'm not going to agree, so let's go with option B. Out of respect, please cut me now rather than later, so I can go and get the most money possible on the open market."

My guess would be that the Pats were looking for him to make some pretty extreme concessions, because I think that's what it would take for them to feel comfortable committing more dollars and years to a guy with so much uncertainty re: his health.

 

[kennyb]

Borgy. Mitt Romney earned 10's of millions in 2012 and he paid 14% of it in Federal taxes. Do you really think that any of these guys who have made 20-40MM during their athletic careers are paying 50% on their income. Making that kind of money comes with a different set of rules than you or I. I'm retired, on SS, plus consulting jobs I do on the side. I paid 24% in federal taxes this year. Its probably around what most people paid. But I'm willing to bet that most people who made in excess of $5MM paid a lot more in dollars, but considerably LESS in percentage.

If the legal code is the most important thing that needs to be revamped and modernized before we drown in lawyers, the IRS code should be next. It may be "progressive" but its still not FAIR. I find it ironic that in 1960 the tax on the rich was up to 90%. Over the last 50 years that has shrunk to less than 40% for the rich that are stupid. Those like Romney who are smart, pay as little as 14%

If Vince is as smart as we think, he has never paid 50% EVER. I love Vince, but the fact is he has been paid very well for being as good as he's been. He's one of the few big money players who has been worth the money the team has spent. HOWEVER, if what they are saying is true and he's pissed that the Pats don't want to carry an $11MM cap charge for a player we don't even know is going to be ready to play; F him.

He certainly didn't give back any money last season when he wasn't very effective in the 4 games he played. Vince played his heart out for the Pats and I appreciate that, but he was paid very very VERY well for the effort AND production. Why should the Past continue to pay him when he's unable to product.

OOP's I'm ranting

Romney makes his money from dividends which come from after tax earnings of a company. So looking at his rate alone is misleading. Salaries are taxed at high marginal rates when you're making millions a year. Fed tax is 36% in the highest bracket or maybe a little higher.

And state taxes are deductible against income. Not federal taxes. So it's not like state taxes don't hit you at all. If you reduce your federal income by 100k due to state income taxes and your marginal rate is 36%, then the deduction saves you 36k. You still out 64k out of pocket vs. Paying no state tax whatsoever. Just like if you donate 5 to charity and write it off...you're still out money. Just not as much because of the deduction. A lot of people get that confused and think write off means you're made whole.

I don't think Vince should take less money out of loyalty. I think he should take less out of reality.

 

[mgteich]

I think that you Romney example is not relevant. He earned and earns his money for capital gains.

Pro ball players have ordinary income and will pay a lot on their income. The 50% is a bit high. However, it really depends on what state and locality one lives in. The federal tax rate for any income over $457,600 is 39.6%. The state and local income taxes vary.

And yes, players consider understand that they pay less taxes if they play for a Florida team, where there is no state income tax.

Borgy. Mitt Romney earned 10's of millions in 2012 and he paid 14% of it in Federal taxes. Do you really think that any of these guys who have made 20-40MM during their athletic careers are paying 50% on their income. Making that kind of money comes with a different set of rules than you or I. I'm retired, on SS, plus consulting jobs I do on the side. I paid 24% in federal taxes this year. Its probably around what most people paid. But I'm willing to bet that most people who made in excess of $5MM paid a lot more in dollars, but considerably LESS in percentage.

If the legal code is the most important thing that needs to be revamped and modernized before we drown in lawyers, the IRS code should be next. It may be "progressive" but its still not FAIR. I find it ironic that in 1960 the tax on the rich was up to 90%. Over the last 50 years that has shrunk to less than 40% for the rich that are stupid. Those like Romney who are smart, pay as little as 14%

If Vince is as smart as we think, he has never paid 50% EVER. I love Vince, but the fact is he has been paid very well for being as good as he's been. He's one of the few big money players who has been worth the money the team has spent. HOWEVER, if what they are saying is true and he's pissed that the Pats don't want to carry an $11MM cap charge for a player we don't even know is going to be ready to play; F him.

He certainly didn't give back any money last season when he wasn't very effective in the 4 games he played. Vince played his heart out for the Pats and I appreciate that, but he was paid very very VERY well for the effort AND production. Why should the Past continue to pay him when he's unable to product.

OOP's I'm ranting

 

[MassPats38]

I would compare Vince to Haloti Ngata when healthy. Ngata is 30, and carries a $15 million cap hit this season. Vince is 32, and carries an $11.6 million hit. Suh is the highest paid comparable at $16 million.

The big question at this point is Wilfork's health. His deal was not great in comparison to Ngata, but the Pats won't pay out of sentimentality. He can either demonstrate progress in rehab at this point, meaning the Pats are not going to pay $11.6 million for his IR status in the last year of his contract, or the Pats let him go. It sucks, since Vince is one of my favorites, but I don't see realistically why the team would do otherwise. The team wants players, not coaches from the sideline who chew up a huge chunk of salary cap space.

Nice discussion on the DT salary topic here from the Ngata contract perspective.