Rumor or Speculation (IDK): Patriots shopping Amendola

[Brady6]

Comparing Wes Welker to Danny Amendola | ChatPats.com

Great read on the Billy Ball metrics.

Edelman really shines for his last year performance (he's mentioned all the way through the comparison). Anyone who thinks Amendola a bust, really should read this.

And that's with Amendola playing on a torn groin. He is NOT a #3 or #4 receiver, sorry.

Earlier in the thread, I posted the stats for every other big name WR from last year.

If the Pats dump him, they're foolish and they'll regret it, I think.

I read it and the problem is it is extremely misleading. My issue with Amendola has been the same throughout every thread discussion, and it is only one issue, which is consistency. This article does not recognize that his numbers breakdown in 14 games as –

- 3 games – 32 targets, 24 receptions, 75% catch ratio, 357 yards, 14.87 average, 1 touchdown.
- 11 games – 57 targets, 33 receptions, 57% catch ratio, 353 yards, 10.69 average, 1 touchdown.

The 3 games were against the Bills, Steelers, and Dolphins, they accounted for 50% of his production for the season as he averaged 8 receptions and 119 yards in those 3 games, but just 3 receptions for 32 yards in his other 11 games played. As I have pointed out before this is not a new thing for Amendola last season 26 of his receptions came in 2 games, with 37 in his other 9.

 

[Brady6]

I read a quote yesterday from Brady's father. It went something like this.
If BB had a player as good as Tom who would play for $1 less, BB would
cut Tom.

That does not mean he does not have Tom Brady’s interests in mind. If he could find someone to play as well as Brady for less, he would play that player which then makes Brady a backup QB. Cutting him is in his best interest because it allows him the opportunity to go elsewhere and start.

Having a players best interest in mind can be as simple as understanding that you no longer have need for him on your team and allowing him to find a place that does, instead of just keeping the player on the team doing nothing to prevent another team from benefiting.

 

[skspikex2]

I am not sure if you follow the Red Sox but Bobby Valentine was an example of a coach who did not have his player’s interests as a priority, they did not play hard for him. Insert John Farrell who did show them that he had their interests in mind and earned their trust and the team wins a world series.

Please don't compare a baseball manager to a football coach. Valentine wasn't the reason they suck, season ending injuries to key players did that.

 

[Brady6]

Please don't compare a baseball manager to a football coach. Valentine wasn't the reason they suck, season ending injuries to key players did that.

Leadership is the same in all facets of life. It requires trust, people are not going to trust someone who does not have their best interest in mind.

 

[skspikex2]

Leadership is the same in all facets of life. It requires trust, people are not going to trust someone who does not have their best interest in mind.

Nope, injuries kill the 2012 season, they were one game out of a wild-card berth in late july until injuries kill it. Look at 2011, best team entering september, then they collapse and miss the playoff, so you blaming Terry Francona for that? Even though he got 2 world series under his belt?

 

[Brady6]

Nope, injuries kill the 2012 season, they were one game out of a wild-card berth in late july until injuries kill it. Look at 2011, best team entering september, then they collapse and miss the playoff, so you blaming Terry Francona for that? Even though he got 2 world series under his belt?

So you think players will follow directions, execute, and give their all for a coach who doesn't consider their interests? Why would they?

Belichick is worthless without players, if you really think grown men willingly let them self be used knowing full well Belichick doesn't care about them or what is best for them you have a misconception of how humans think.

 

[Huckleberry1]

I'm sure Bill would rather help some other team than have a good 3rd or 4th receiver. Why be selfish?

You nailed it, Belichick is all about making other team's better and the Patriots worse to satisfy the desires of the player. He's made a career out of it, in fact. Seymour wanted to be a Raider more than anything so he shopped him for a first round pick he couldn't even use that year, Seymour was ecstatic. Same for Vrabel, he wanted to be a Chef in the worst way so belichick obliged and sent him to KC, Vrabel was thrilled. Belichick has been making these moves to mollify player's his entire career, only an idiot would fail to see it. If Brady wanted to be a Dolphin Belichick would create an Amendola and Brady for Jonathan martin and Richie Incognito deal tomorrow just to satisfy his desire to be in Miami.

I fully expect numerous Brady and Amendola to Miami articles at WEEI and Pro Football Talk to emerge shortly, and a breakdown by the folks at PFF explaining how the Dolphins got taken by the Patriots clever move to steal 2 future Hall of Famers from the Dolphins shouldn't be far behind, in fact their metrics prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt.

 

[skspikex2]

So you think players will follow directions, execute, and give their all for a coach who doesn't consider their interests? Why would they?

Belichick is worthless without players, if you really think grown men willingly let them self be used knowing full well Belichick doesn't care about them or what is best for them you have a misconception of how humans think.

You comparing football coach to baseball manager again.... seriously.. flawed comparison.

 

[Brady6]

It has nothing to do with making other teams better; Bill Belichick is not that insecure of a person that he fears Danny Amendola being on another team being the hurdle he is unable to leap to win a championship. For Belichick it is about the players buying into what he tells them. These players would not work hard for Belichick if they did not feel he had an interest in them being successful, if he was keeping players on the team simply to prevent them from helping other teams the players would not trust him to have their best interest in mind and they would not invest themselves into what Belichick asked.

Is Belichick smart and makes a point to maximize the return for his team as well? Of course he is, but that does not mean that he is not considering the fact that when he signed Amendola he likely committed to giving him a starting job and if Edelman prevents that from being possible moving forward Belichick would do right by Amendola and try and move him to a place that he could have that starting job.

 

[Nunchucks]

So you think players will follow directions, execute, and give their all for a coach who doesn't consider their interests? Why would they?

Belichick is worthless without players, if you really think grown men willingly let them self be used knowing full well Belichick doesn't care about them or what is best for them you have a misconception of how humans think.

Because they get paid millions of dollars to play football and they are professionals.

 

[Brady6]

You comparing football coach to baseball manager again.... seriously.. flawed comparison.

I am comparing the leader of a sales organization to the leader of a hockey team, and any other leadership role, it all relies on the same thing, people buying into what you want them to do. Nobody buys into a concept that they do not feel has their interests in mind. That is why you see these coaches have a solid 1-2 years and then get fired it is because the players discover that the coach is not looking out for them and the trust is lost and the effort and execution follows.

It is not flawed, what is flawed is thinking that athletes think differently than the rest of society. Do you give your all for a boss who you think could care less about you or your interests?

 

[skspikex2]

I am comparing the leader of a sales organization to the leader of a hockey team, and any other leadership role, it all relies on the same thing, people buying into what you want them to do. Nobody buys into a concept that they do not feel has their interests in mind. That is why you see these coaches have a solid 1-2 years and then get fired it is because the players discover that the coach is not looking out for them and the trust is lost and the effort and execution follows.

It is not flawed, what is flawed is thinking that athletes think differently than the rest of society. Do you give your all for a boss who you think could care less about you or your interests?

They paid millions, I don't.

 

[Brady6]

They paid millions, I don't.

Exactly so they have more money than you do, so they need their jobs even less.

Amendola received $8 million in 2013 and he does not have to give a cent back no matter what, if he felt like Belichick did not have his interests in mind he could just tell him to go pound sand.

 

[Nunchucks]

Exactly so they have more money than you do, so they need their jobs even less.

Amendola received $8 million in 2013 and he does not have to give a cent back no matter what, if he felt like Belichick did not have his interests in mind he could just tell him to go pound sand.

They are also under contract.

 

[skspikex2]

Exactly so they have more money than you do, so they need their jobs even less.

Amendola received $8 million in 2013 and he does not have to give a cent back no matter what, if he felt like Belichick did not have his interests in mind he could just tell him to go pound sand.

They are being paid to do their job, if not, then they fail at it. And what you say about Amendola pounding sand is all pure speculation.

 

[Brady6]

They are also under contract.

I know so was RGIII last season but he lost trust in Shanahan and you saw how that played out. Being under contract does not mean that they have to give the coach 100% it just means they are paid.

 

[Brady6]

They are being paid to do their job, if not, then they fail at it. And what you say about Amendola pounding sand is all pure speculation.

I said Amendola could tell Belichick to pound sand, the key word is could.

They do not necessarily fail; doing what is best for the team and doing what is best for them can be very different, why would they care about failing a coach that does not have any interest in them succeeding.

The question is still the same, are you paid to do your job, do you give it your all for someone you feel does not have your interests in mind?

 

[50-yard-line]

So, if I can sort out this last page of strange twists...

BB will cut Amendola or trade him on the cheap as a favor to Amendola?

Because BB wants to see him do well elsewhere?

And he would never disrespect players?

And this from the guy (sorry, Brady6, but it's true) who has been climbing up DA's ass since September?

So we dump Amendola and eat the 5 million. Now what? Tell me our next moves - sign JE, obviously, and to a deal similar to the one we gave Amendola.

Okay, so now we've swapped the two and have eaten 5 million. Now we have Edelman, Boyce, Thompkins, Dobson, Moe and Harrison...

Now what?

Tell me who we bring in to make that worthwhile to us. Tell me what the hell we do if we get pre-2013 Edelman who can't stay on the field.

Tell me why any FA receivers is likely to fare better than ANY of them from last year, including the ones who got substantially more than DA (Jennings, Harvin, Wallace).

Now tell me again why we cut bait and ate $5 million (this year and next) and how the couple of million we saved, then spent + on JE is going to make up for the loss.

If the Pats can get trade value (like the deal I tossed out with Houston - Mallett/Amendola for Joseph/Daniels), then okay, we've plugged other holes possibly worthy of that lost cash. But other than that, to go with the above receivers - and what? a draft pick? an FA who may or may not work out? - seems like setting us BACK, not forward.

I know we eat the DA money anyway, B6, but what you've never addressed is the fact that retaining Edelman for the next two years will be substantially more expensive than the BASE salary we'd save for DA.

Unless there's some other landmine there - Brady and Amendola not getting along, BB getting an anti-Welker crush against DA - the logic still does not add up.

 

[Brady6]

So, if I can sort out this last page of strange twists...

BB will cut Amendola or trade him on the cheap as a favor to Amendola?

Because BB wants to see him do well elsewhere?

Belichick has an interest in the NFL he is a historian of the game and enjoys seeing the players have success.

And he would never disrespect players?

Why would he disrespect Amendola, if he resigns Edelman and Amendola no longer has a chance to be a featured weapon in this offense, why would Belichick stand in his way of finding success elsewhere? That is not building a team that is collecting talent.

And this from the guy (sorry, Brady6, but it's true) who has been climbing up DA's ass since September?

I did not say anything negative about Amendola until after game six against the Saints. I was not up his ass since September.

So we dump Amendola and eat the 5 million. Now what? Tell me our next moves - sign JE, obviously, and to a deal similar to the one we gave Amendola.

The $4.8 million is gone, it spent, sunk, and is never to be seen again, it hits our cap no matter what. What you are suggesting is that we invest more money into Amendola for the hope that he returns some of that investment that we already spent. That is how you go broke as an investor.

Okay, so now we've swapped the two and have eaten 5 million. Now we have Edelman, Boyce, Thompkins, Dobson, Moe and Harrison...

We have not eaten $5 million; we have saved $2 million. As I said the $4.8 is sunk it hits our cap at some point and time no matter what, keeping Amendola does not aid our cap in anyway shape or form, we just invest further into Amendola.

Now what?

Tell me who we bring in to make that worthwhile to us. Tell me what the hell we do if we get pre-2013 Edelman who can't stay on the field.

How would Amendola help that situation, not to mention the only injury that actually kept Edelman off the field was the 2012 foot injury. The other season he was a sixth wide receiver and a special teams player so him being on the active 46 man game day roster could have been for multiple reasons, and the smallest injury could have kept him off it.

Tell me why any FA receivers is likely to fare better than ANY of them from last year, including the ones who got substantially more than DA (Jennings, Harvin, Wallace).

Harvin was injured reserve for most of the season. Jennings played with 4 different QBs, and Wallace was overpaid and performed exactly where he had throughout his career (as did Amendola). Other team’s mistakes are not going to change my view of the situation. I compare Amendola to other Patriots transactions, not what other teams do.

Now tell me again why we cut bait and ate $5 million (this year and next) and how the couple of million we saved, then spent + on JE is going to make up for the loss.

We did not eat anything; I do not understand how you cannot grasp that, you are simplistically looking at the 2014 cap only. Try looking at the big picture of the cap investment for Amendola.

If we release him today, it costs $4.8 million in cap dollars. If we keep him for 2014 as a backup and then cut him after 2014 the total cap dollars will be $8,175,000. You want to invest another $3.5 million into Amendola and hope that gets us a return on the $8 million we have already spent is that you want to do.

If the Pats can get trade value (like the deal I tossed out with Houston - Mallett/Amendola for Joseph/Daniels), then okay, we've plugged other holes possibly worthy of that lost cash. But other than that, to go with the above receivers - and what? a draft pick? an FA who may or may not work out? - seems like setting us BACK, not forward.

We would take on $4 million of Daniels $5.75 million cap hit and $7.5 million of Joseph’s $11.25 cap hit if we did that trade. All tolled we would have $15.3 million in cap hits if we made that trade. If we traded Mallett and Amendola it would have to be for picks.

I know we eat the DA money anyway, B6, but what you've never addressed is the fact that retaining Edelman for the next two years will be substantially more expensive than the BASE salary we'd save for DA.

It would cost us $7.75 million to keep Amendola for 2 more seasons, which is nearly $4 million a season in new money spent on Amendola on top of the $8 million we have already spent. I do not see any savings, especially when you take into account that you will have to replace some of Edelman’s production, and that will cost you money as well. Unless you are going to trust Amendola to do it, I am sorry but I cannot do that.

Unless there's some other landmine there - Brady and Amendola not getting along, BB getting an anti-Welker crush against DA - the logic still does not add up.

The logic is to cut your losses and move on rather than putting more money into something with the hope that you get some return on your investment. I cannot see adding another $3.5 million to the Amendola investment, there is no logic in that except for hope and hope is not a strategy my friend.

 

[50-yard-line]

Belichick has an interest in the NFL he is a historian of the game and enjoys seeing the players have success.

Why would he disrespect Amendola, if he resigns Edelman and Amendola no longer has a chance to be a featured weapon in this offense, why would Belichick stand in his way of finding success elsewhere? That is not building a team that is collecting talent.

I did not say anything negative about Amendola until after game six against the Saints. I was not up his ass since September.

The $4.8 million is gone, it spent, sunk, and is never to be seen again, it hits our cap no matter what. What you are suggesting is that we invest more money into Amendola for the hope that he returns some of that investment that we already spent. That is how you go broke as an investor.

We have not eaten $5 million; we have saved $2 million. As I said the $4.8 is sunk it hits our cap at some point and time no matter what, keeping Amendola does not aid our cap in anyway shape or form, we just invest further into Amendola.

How would Amendola help that situation, not to mention the only injury that actually kept Edelman off the field was the 2012 foot injury. The other season he was a sixth wide receiver and a special teams player so him being on the active 46 man game day roster could have been for multiple reasons, and the smallest injury could have kept him off it.

Harvin was injured reserve for most of the season. Jennings played with 4 different QBs, and Wallace was overpaid and performed exactly where he had throughout his career (as did Amendola). Other team’s mistakes are not going to change my view of the situation. I compare Amendola to other Patriots transactions, not what other teams do.

We did not eat anything; I do not understand how you cannot grasp that, you are simplistically looking at the 2014 cap only. Try looking at the big picture of the cap investment for Amendola.

If we release him today, it costs $4.8 million in cap dollars. If we keep him for 2014 as a backup and then cut him after 2014 the total cap dollars will be $8,175,000. You want to invest another $3.5 million into Amendola and hope that gets us a return on the $8 million we have already spent is that you want to do.

We would take on $4 million of Daniels $5.75 million cap hit and $7.5 million of Joseph’s $11.25 cap hit if we did that trade. All tolled we would have $15.3 million in cap hits if we made that trade. If we traded Mallett and Amendola it would have to be for picks.

It would cost us $7.75 million to keep Amendola for 2 more seasons, which is nearly $4 million a season in new money spent on Amendola on top of the $8 million we have already spent. I do not see any savings, especially when you take into account that you will have to replace some of Edelman’s production, and that will cost you money as well. Unless you are going to trust Amendola to do it, I am sorry but I cannot do that.

The logic is to cut your losses and move on rather than putting more money into something with the hope that you get some return on your investment. I cannot see adding another $3.5 million to the Amendola investment, there is no logic in that except for hope and hope is not a strategy my friend.

Get our former kicker drunk and talk to him about BB...0r Willie, for that matter...or Seymore for that matter. BB is ruthless.

My point on "other teams' mistakes" is that there were nothing BUT mistakes in WR FA last year. It's a hard position to transition, as we see time and time again. If you're going to keep bringing in people for one year, you're almost always going to be disappointed.. It rarely works.

Now, here's why we will never come together on this: your assertion is that Amendola isn't worth the EXTRA money from keeping him.

Going by Miguel's computations: if we use the June 1st designation, here are the savings:

His 2014 cap number would then drop from $4.575m to $1.2million ($1.2 million signing bonus proration) – net cap savings in 2014 of around $2.88 million.

His 2015 cap number would go from $5.575 million to $3.6 million. So that's another 1.975 in savings in 2015.

So for TWO YEARS of service, the extra money for DA would be 2.88+1.975=4.855 million, or 2.427 per year. JE would cost a LOT more than that to begin an equivalent contract now.

2.4/year for Amendola? Hells yes. He was the number 2 receiver on the team last year, despite missing four games (and a good part of a fifth with the concussion). He had the same targets/snap % as our top receiver, and was on par with reception %, ypc, and every other metric.

Regarding that Saints game, go and take a good look at Welker's production right after he got KO'd with his concussion - you'll see a pattern there. That 10/6 game was Amendola's first game back, and it's right on course for WRs stepping back in after getting KO'd.

Go around the league and see what $2.4 million will buy you in terms of veteran receivers. You're below Jason Avant territory. Amendola's upside is WAY above that, other than the injuries, just as we all thought JE's upside was way above what he had shown previous to last year, other than the injuries.

And I go back to this: the Pats got Corey Dillon on the cheap because he had a bad year because he played on a torn groin. Do you see the irony here of now selling low?

Judging by the reactions of New England sports media and many fans on these boards, Talib was right to stay out in the AFCCG...had he come back in and gotten lit up by Demarius Thomas as he struggled with his injury, he'd be a bum who couldn't be shipped out of town fast enough.